Liberals the cancer of this nation? Vote now.

[Wade]

Liberals are no more the cancer in this country than are hardcore ultra-conservatives. The cancer in this country is people who blame the other side for everything and cannot fathom that their side may be not so great as well.

By the way, it was everybody's friend GW Bush that took away the 4th Amendment, ala Patriot Act. Both sides have their hand in the pot of taking away freedoms.

GW started taking our freedom, in exchange for security. I think Benjamin Franklin had something to say about that.

GW didn't get Osama. I'll never forgive him for that screw up.

GW started this stimulus check crap.

Now, can we quit holding up one looser, as an excuse for the current loser?

From where I sit, my side hasn't been represented in a long time.

 

[MPS]

GW started taking our freedom, in exchange for security. I think Benjamin Franklin had something to say about that.

GW didn't get Osama. I'll never forgive him for that screw up.

GW started this stimulus check crap.

Now, can we quit holding up one looser, as an excuse for the current loser?

From where I sit, my side hasn't been represented in a long time.

Don't forget about that azzhat Clinton....he had Osama on a silver platter.

.

 

[Wade]

Don't forget about that azzhat Clinton....he had Osama on a silver platter.

.

Definitely. I just wonder why everyone assumes, that if you don't like the socialism and the socialist Obama, that you somehow where a Bush supporter. Why should the previous dumb axxes that occupied the whitehouse, be a excuse for the current idiot? Bush bashing was practiced for 8 years, it went no where.

Clinton, was known as slick willey for a reason. He's a fracking crook. And Bush did a lot of things I don't agree with. And, Bush senior forgot about the economy stupid. Reagan got caught making deals with unfriendlies. And, Carter tried to destroy the country. Nixon was a crook and theif. Ford pardoned Nixon. Johnson pushed his ideas down everyone's throat. Kennedy about got us all blown to heck. There.

 

[shortstop20]

Gee Ruffy do these results astound you? haha

Although I'm not Ruffy, I will say I'm not surprised by the results in the least. Although that doesn't make it true just because the majority here agree. It is a proven fact that most Americans are moderates, not right wing or left wing.

GW started taking our freedom, in exchange for security. I think Benjamin Franklin had something to say about that.

GW didn't get Osama. I'll never forgive him for that screw up.

GW started this stimulus check crap.

Now, can we quit holding up one looser, as an excuse for the current loser?

From where I sit, my side hasn't been represented in a long time.

Thank you for at least accepting that both sides aren't doing their job, many on this site will not accept that.

Benjamin Franklin said:

Those who will sacrifice liberties for security deserve neither liberty nor security.

That's one of my favorite quotes, for the record.

To be fair Bill Clinton didn't get Osama when he had his chance either, but yes, Bush made the same mistake. If we had put our focus on Afghanistan instead of shifting it to Iraq two years later we would be sitting much better right now. There was no more reason to invade Iraq in 2003 than there was in any other year when Saddam was ruling. It's a fact that the supposed Al-Queda presence in Iraq prior to the invasion in March 2003 was totally false, Al-Queda never occupied Iraq until after our invasion. No WMD's to be found either.

I don't mean to point out Bush's mistakes as an excuse for Obama(I did not vote for Obama), truth be told I don't like him. I just can't stand the fact that certain members here refuse to acknowledge the fact that the Republican party is no better than the Democratic Party. It is complete and utter BS to think that one party is right and another party is wrong. I challenge anyone on this forum to contest otherwise.

Definitely. I just wonder why everyone assumes, that if you don't like the socialism and the socialist Obama, that you somehow where a Bush supporter. Why should the previous dumb axxes that occupied the whitehouse, be a excuse for the current idiot? Bush bashing was practiced for 8 years, it went no where.

Clinton, was known as slick willey for a reason. He's a fracking crook. And Bush did a lot of things I don't agree with. And, Bush senior forgot about the economy stupid. Reagan got caught making deals with unfriendlies. And, Carter tried to destroy the country. Nixon was a crook and theif. Ford pardoned Nixon. Johnson pushed his ideas down everyone's throat. Kennedy about got us all blown to heck. There.

In other words, none of them are worth a $h!t, this is why everyone should pay less attention to presidential elections and more attention to Senate/House elections. After all, the people you vote into Congress are usually the people that later become President. Yes, some Governors have jumped right to the Presidency as well but it's not as common.

Say what you want about Clinton but the economy was good when he was President and that speaks volumes.

Lasseisz-fair economics from the early 2000's to 2006 put us where we are now. Blame whatever side you want. It doesn't really matter. I don't trust either side any further than I can throw them and neither should anybody else.

Signed,

A registered Republican.

 

[Wolfrun]

There have been plenty of transgressions against liberty in the last 75 years. Some of these were because of panic, some because they thought it was the right thing. some from malice, some from bad advice and some from stupidity but no one in 75 years has torn America so far down and transgressed against the Constitution as much in his first 8 months as Barack Hussein Soetoro Oboma.

 

[Wade]

The problem with the healthcare bill Obama is pushing, is once it's enacted, it becomes an entitlement. And, can never be canceled by a following administration or house, due to political pressure. It won't matter if we can't afford healthcare, once enacted, we'll have to pay it until it destroys the country.

Same with the other great nation destroyers, Social Security, Medicaid/Medicare, and welfare. The dependents will never let them be canceled, and would rather run the country into financial ruin, than give up "their" benefit. I'd say it would be easier to cancel wilderness, than it would be social security. Not many other things, you can say that about.

The Patriot Act can be canceled. The stimulus checks can be stopped. Tax rates can be changed. Business taxes can be changed. But, social entitlement, can be incrementally eased off, but incrementalism takes decades, and parties can't stay in power that long.

I wouldn't give Clinton much credit for the economy, in my opinion, he was a beneficiary, of a new market.

 

[Wolfrun]

I agree with you , Wade.

 

[MPS]

Definitely. I just wonder why everyone assumes, that if you don't like the socialism and the socialist Obama, that you somehow where a Bush supporter. Why should the previous dumb axxes that occupied the whitehouse, be a excuse for the current idiot? Bush bashing was practiced for 8 years, it went no where.

Clinton, was known as slick willey for a reason. He's a fracking crook. And Bush did a lot of things I don't agree with. And, Bush senior forgot about the economy stupid. Reagan got caught making deals with unfriendlies. And, Carter tried to destroy the country. Nixon was a crook and theif. Ford pardoned Nixon. Johnson pushed his ideas down everyone's throat. Kennedy about got us all blown to heck. There.

LMAO....you hit the nail on the head with all of them! Even though I will take Reagan again.


.

 

[MPS]

What you would call liberals, i would call the illuminati. You wrote

Politically speaking...
American Liberals support/promote an expansion of government, and government power.At worst they are anti-capitalist, anti-free market, anti-institution & tradition leftist, radical believers in socialism. They are vocal proponents of free speech unless they disagree with that speech, then they work hard to suppress it. (Fairness Doctrine) They advocate taking earned wealth away from the hard working in order to give it to the ungrateful.


Those are all things our government is doing right now. Is our government run by liberals? Or democrats and republicans. I am confused now.

Who the hell is tryping for you J-Fly? Or is this a cut and paste? Seriously.

Although I'm not Ruffy, I will say I'm not surprised by the results in the least. Although that doesn't make it true just because the majority here agree. It is a proven fact that most Americans are moderates, not right wing or left wing.

No I don't think this is a true sample of the American public. No, these results don't surprise me coming from a snowmobile website.

I am not talking about party lines....I disagree, most Americans are conservative. We just haven't heard from them until now....a sleeping giant has awoken. They may have been moderate in their voting, but most of America has conservative values. I just saw a fair poll last night on Glenn Beck that addressed this.


.

 

[Wade]

LMAO....you hit the nail on the head with all of them! Even though I will take Reagan again.
.

Reagan did a lot of things that needed to be done. Of everyone that's been in the Whitehouse, he's the only one I actually had any respect for.

 

[MPS]

Reagan did a lot of things that needed to be done. Of everyone that's been in the Whitehouse, he's the only one I actually had any respect for.

I might take JFK too, even though he almost killed us with the Cuban missile crisis. He would be considered a conservative these days. He signed an executive order getting rid of the Federal Reserve and then he was killed shortly after...shocker. This order still exists, just hasn't been enforced.


.

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

...To be fair Bill Clinton didn't get Osama when he had his chance either, but yes, Bush made the same mistake.

The Sudanese intelligence service offered OBL to Clinton TWICE but his National Security Advisor Sandy Berger said no. This was AFTER Billy Jeff declared Osame "The most dangerous man in the world". You remember Sandy Berger don't you? He was the guy who, after 9/11 stole documents that incriminated both him and Clinton from THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES and burned them. Yeah Liberals!

Bush absolutely did not make the same mistake. No one offered Osama to Bush.

...certain members here refuse to acknowledge the fact that the Republican party is no better than the Democratic Party. It is complete and utter BS to think that one party is right and another party is wrong. I challenge anyone on this forum to contest otherwise.

When the Republicans stick to their platform and act like conservatives we get the Reagan years. When they act like liberals we get GW's second term. All of Bush's failures are rooted in him departing from conservatism. Every single one of our great social ills in this country are the result of liberal policies.

...this is why everyone should pay less attention to presidential elections and more attention to Senate/House elections.

I absolutely agree with you here

...After all, the people you vote into Congress are usually the people that later become President. Yes, some Governors have jumped right to the Presidency as well but it's not as common.

Pick up a history book. Barack Obama is only the 3rd Senator in history to be elected President. We elected a Congressman only once (Garfield 1842). Most Presidents have either been Governors or sitting Vice Presidents. Out of the VP pool it's a pretty even mix of former Senators and Governors.

Since 1900 we've had 20 Presidents, 8 were Governors: McKinley, Taft, Wilson, Roosevelt(FDR), Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush(GW) and 7 Vice Presidents: Teddy Roosevelt, Coolidge (also former Govs), Truman, LB Johnson, Nixon, Ford, GHW Bush. There was 1 general: Eisenhower, 3 Senators: Harding, Kennedy, Obama, and 1 former cabinet member: Hoover.

...Say what you want about Clinton but the economy was good when he was President and that speaks volumes.

Speaks volumes about what? The housing bubble he started that burst 12 years later?? The Community Reinvestment Act of 1996 is what forced banks to give home loans to the unqualified. Sure housing skyrocketed and people were making money but all houses made of cards eventually come crashing down. What about Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia and Tyco? Do you really believe those guys started gutting their companies AFTER Bush got elected? Clinton was utterly amoral. He did what he wanted without any real accountability and by example he sent the message to CEO's that they were free to do the same.

You keep saying that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. I say you're not paying close enough attention. There are very real, very immediate differences between them. One party pushes for stronger government control while offering the public more opportunities to weaken themselves, and the other party pushes for less government control while begging the public to step up.

Those are pretty distinct, core differences...but then it's easier to just throw your hands up and say they're all crooks and they're all the same because that absolves you of your duty as a citizen to hold them accountable.

 

[Ollie]

The problem with the politicians in this country is us.
For too many years the people have sat back and not paid attention.
The media said and the people followed.
The politicians promised and the people believed.
The only reason bo is getting SO much attention and taking all the current heat is because he is pushing SO hard SO fast.
Most past presidents had to move slow. THey didn't have undisputed control in all 3 branches.

Washington hasn't been conservative in over 50 years.
As the majority sat back and lived their lives the liberal activists convinced washington that they were too conservative to get elected.
Americans would fixate on one thing, and that thing would be dictated by the media.
As time went on politicians learned this. They courted the media and the special interests.
They needed both to get elected. Special interests paid the millions it took to get elected. The media gave them the positive or negative press they needed to convince the masses they were to be elected.

Over the last 50 years the media and special interests have gotten more and more influence in washington to the point that the general population no longer really mattered.
Our liberties have been eroded by both parties, everytime the liberals would push too hard we elected conservatives, then the special interests and the liberal activists went to work and got liberals elected again. Each cycle pulled the country further towards socialism.

The people are just now waking up and they are all saying the same thing.

What the heck happened and how did we get here.
Bo just happens to be the focal point because he is currently in office.
He is abusing his power faster and more than any president since FDR and the people have had enough. Now the politicians are trying to get their liberal agenda thru in spite of open hostility from the people. Politicians no longer fear the anger of the people because the people no longer control washington. Special interests and the media does. The people are starting to recognize this and it is inflaming their anger even more.
It will be interesting to see how many politicians realize what is about to happen.

 

[MTm7]

The problem with the politicians in this country is us.
For too many years the people have sat back and not paid attention.
The media said and the people followed.
The politicians promised and the people believed.
The only reason bo is getting SO much attention and taking all the current heat is because he is pushing SO hard SO fast.
Most past presidents had to move slow. THey didn't have undisputed control in all 3 branches.

Washington hasn't been conservative in over 50 years.
As the majority sat back and lived their lives the liberal activists convinced washington that they were too conservative to get elected.
Americans would fixate on one thing, and that thing would be dictated by the media.
As time went on politicians learned this. They courted the media and the special interests.
They needed both to get elected. Special interests paid the millions it took to get elected. The media gave them the positive or negative press they needed to convince the masses they were to be elected.

Over the last 50 years the media and special interests have gotten more and more influence in washington to the point that the general population no longer really mattered.
Our liberties have been eroded by both parties, everytime the liberals would push too hard we elected conservatives, then the special interests and the liberal activists went to work and got liberals elected again. Each cycle pulled the country further towards socialism.

The people are just now waking up and they are all saying the same thing.

What the heck happened and how did we get here.
Bo just happens to be the focal point because he is currently in office.
He is abusing his power faster and more than any president since FDR and the people have had enough. Now the politicians are trying to get their liberal agenda thru in spite of open hostility from the people. Politicians no longer fear the anger of the people because the people no longer control washington. Special interests and the media does. The people are starting to recognize this and it is inflaming their anger even more.
It will be interesting to see how many politicians realize what is about to happen.

good post ollie! its apparent that america does not want what bo is pushing! will he listen or just keep pushing? if its the latter then i think something bad is going to happen!

 

[Wade]

Some will think I'm crazy for saying this, oh well.

A purely logical opinion, from my point of view. Terrorist, and terrorism, isn't nearly as dangerous to this country as the Socialist movement spreading through congress. I absolutely believe no terrorist organization could bring us down, on the contrary, they would only make us stronger. But, this socialism, it's going to tear this country apart. I'd rather face terrorist nukes, than a expanding socialist entitled citizenship.

We need to get people back to work.

 

[shortstop20]

The Sudanese intelligence service offered OBL to Clinton TWICE but his National Security Advisor Sandy Berger said no. This was AFTER Billy Jeff declared Osame "The most dangerous man in the world". You remember Sandy Berger don't you? He was the guy who, after 9/11 stole documents that incriminated both him and Clinton from THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES and burned them. Yeah Liberals!

Bush absolutely did not make the same mistake. No one offered Osama to Bush.

Bush had the chance to get Obama, he instead diverted his attention to Iraq two years later like a model child for ADD.


When the Republicans stick to their platform and act like conservatives we get the Reagan years. When they act like liberals we get GW's second term. All of Bush's failures are rooted in him departing from conservatism. Every single one of our great social ills in this country are the result of liberal policies.

Are teenage pregnency rates a result of liberal policies? Because statistics show that states that teach sex education vs. abstinence(the conservative policy) have less teen pregnancies. Just one example.


I absolutely agree with you here


Pick up a history book. Barack Obama is only the 3rd Senator in history to be elected President. We elected a Congressman only once (Garfield 1842). Most Presidents have either been Governors or sitting Vice Presidents. Out of the VP pool it's a pretty even mix of former Senators and Governors.

Since 1900 we've had 20 Presidents, 8 were Governors: McKinley, Taft, Wilson, Roosevelt(FDR), Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush(GW) and 7 Vice Presidents: Teddy Roosevelt, Coolidge (also former Govs), Truman, LB Johnson, Nixon, Ford, GHW Bush. There was 1 general: Eisenhower, 3 Senators: Harding, Kennedy, Obama, and 1 former cabinet member: Hoover.


Speaks volumes about what? The housing bubble he started that burst 12 years later?? The Community Reinvestment Act of 1996 is what forced banks to give home loans to the unqualified. Sure housing skyrocketed and people were making money but all houses made of cards eventually come crashing down. What about Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia and Tyco? Do you really believe those guys started gutting their companies AFTER Bush got elected? Clinton was utterly amoral. He did what he wanted without any real accountability and by example he sent the message to CEO's that they were free to do the same.

Republicans had a majority in 1996, I guess they didn't do their job. Much how the Democrats didn't do their job in 2006 when the Republicans said we needed housing reform and the Democrats refused, because they had the MAJORITY.

You keep saying that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. I say you're not paying close enough attention. There are very real, very immediate differences between them. One party pushes for stronger government control while offering the public more opportunities to weaken themselves, and the other party pushes for less government control while begging the public to step up.

Both parties are the party of more government, but at least the Democrats don't pretend they're the party of small government. The Republican party foundation of fiscal conservatism, small government, and staying out of social issues is now nothing more than history. The current Republican party does not stand for these things, which is what the party was founded on.

Those are pretty distinct, core differences...but then it's easier to just throw your hands up and say they're all crooks and they're all the same because that absolves you of your duty as a citizen to hold them accountable.

It's even easier to say that one party is right and one party is wrong, isn't it?

 

[pernikm]

I agree about the federal reserve, but you are wrong about the cancer of this nation. The cancer of this nation is our own corrupted government, which is not run by liberals in my opinion. I dont know anybody that calls themself a liberal, that is just what you guys (conservative republicans) stereotype people you dont like as.

America was the first liberal country in the history of the world. The word liberal, comes from the word liberty, which is in the constitution. I dont see the word coservative in the constitution. Here is the definition of liberal

"Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, suitable for a free man) is the belief in the importance of individual freedom. This belief is widely accepted today throughout the world, and was recognized as an important value by many philosophers throughout history. The Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius wrote praising "the idea of a polity administered with regard to equal rights and equal freedom of speech, and the idea of a kingly government which respects most of all the freedom of the governed".[1]

In the 17th Century, liberal ideas began to influence governments in Europe, in nations such as The Netherlands, Switzerland, England and Poland, but they were strongly opposed, often by armed might, by those who favored absolute monarchy and established religion. In the 18th Century, in America, the first modern liberal state was founded, without a monarch or a hereditary aristocracy.[6] The American Declaration of Independence, includes the words (which echo Locke) "all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to insure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Here is defintion of conservative

"disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change."

We need to change the people running our government, and the process that they get elected by, and make laws. We dont need career politicians. We dont need oil, we need solar, and hydro power. We dont need bad drug laws, and millions of people in jail. We do need to change the way we handle illegal immigrants. All these are liberal ideas. We have a conservative government, that only cares about money, and will do anything, including WAGE WARS, do protect its on profit.

Its time to clean house. Maybe water the tree of LIBERTY as some of you would say. And thats where the word liberal comes from. I want LIBERTY. We need to end the war, stop letting corporations and the government bleed our citizens dry. The government is the one wasting our tax dollars on war, giving OUR MONEY to corporations and insurance companies, imprisoning our youth and sending them to war. Liberals arent the ones doing these things.

YOU GUYS NEED TO OPEN YOUR EYES. ITS YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT THAT IS THE CANCER. THE FLAG YOU SO BLINDLY WORSHIP. YOU WASTE YOUR TIME ARGUING WITH EACH OTHER, OVER STUPID NAMES LIKE LIBERAL, REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT. WHO GIVES A ****. THE GOVERNMENT IS THE CANER.

THE GOVERNMENT IS THE CANCER AND SO IS MONEY.

THE GOVERNMENT IS THE CANCER AND SO IS MONEY.

THE GOVERNMENT IS THE CANCER AND SO IS MONEY.

THE GOVERNMENT IS THE CANCER AND SO IS MONEY.

So why would you be so stupid as to keep voting for and defending an entity with a proven track record of making the federal government larger?

 

[pernikm]

The problem with the politicians in this country is us.
For too many years the people have sat back and not paid attention.
The media said and the people followed.
The politicians promised and the people believed.
The only reason bo is getting SO much attention and taking all the current heat is because he is pushing SO hard SO fast.
Most past presidents had to move slow. THey didn't have undisputed control in all 3 branches.

Washington hasn't been conservative in over 50 years.
As the majority sat back and lived their lives the liberal activists convinced washington that they were too conservative to get elected.
Americans would fixate on one thing, and that thing would be dictated by the media.
As time went on politicians learned this. They courted the media and the special interests.
They needed both to get elected. Special interests paid the millions it took to get elected. The media gave them the positive or negative press they needed to convince the masses they were to be elected.

Over the last 50 years the media and special interests have gotten more and more influence in washington to the point that the general population no longer really mattered.
Our liberties have been eroded by both parties, everytime the liberals would push too hard we elected conservatives, then the special interests and the liberal activists went to work and got liberals elected again. Each cycle pulled the country further towards socialism.

The people are just now waking up and they are all saying the same thing.

What the heck happened and how did we get here.
Bo just happens to be the focal point because he is currently in office.
He is abusing his power faster and more than any president since FDR and the people have had enough. Now the politicians are trying to get their liberal agenda thru in spite of open hostility from the people. Politicians no longer fear the anger of the people because the people no longer control washington. Special interests and the media does. The people are starting to recognize this and it is inflaming their anger even more.
It will be interesting to see how many politicians realize what is about to happen.

I am going to agree with this except for one point. I do not believe the people are waking up. I belive they are noticing decrease in their standard of living. Their anger is now directed at the wrong entity and I believe that instead of awakening from their laziness, they are grasping for a new baby sitter. Now that the globalized economy can't support the rich american wage, they are looking for a new sugar daddy. I think they want the government to take care of them. Unfortuately for them Karl Marx was both right and wrong. Yes corporate America and the rich will take advantage of the working class. But, if you transfer the wealth away from the rich, you will find there wasn't enough to make everyone rich and everyone will be poor. Kinda like all socialist nations. I don't have much faith anymore.

 

[Ollie]

I am going to agree with this except for one point. I do not believe the people are waking up. I belive they are noticing decrease in their standard of living. Their anger is now directed at the wrong entity and I believe that instead of awakening from their laziness, they are grasping for a new baby sitter. Now that the globalized economy can't support the rich american wage, they are looking for a new sugar daddy. I think they want the government to take care of them. Unfortuately for them Karl Marx was both right and wrong. Yes corporate America and the rich will take advantage of the working class. But, if you transfer the wealth away from the rich, you will find there wasn't enough to make everyone rich and everyone will be poor. Kinda like all socialist nations. I don't have much faith anymore.

You could very well be right.
The next 2 years will tell the future of this country.
If they pass Obamacare, if they pass cap and trade, if they pass amnesty, if the dems maintain majority control of the house and senate after 2010, only a full scale civil war will save the country.
On a positive note, liberals are typically anti-gun and won't fight.

 

[Ollie]

Some will think I'm crazy for saying this, oh well.

A purely logical opinion, from my point of view. Terrorist, and terrorism, isn't nearly as dangerous to this country as the Socialist movement spreading through congress. I absolutely believe no terrorist organization could bring us down, on the contrary, they would only make us stronger. But, this socialism, it's going to tear this country apart. I'd rather face terrorist nukes, than a expanding socialist entitled citizenship.

We need to get people back to work.

You would be 100% correct.
indifference is more of a threat to America than Bin Laden has or ever will be.