Just got off the phone with the top guy at Motec. He is looking at doing ECUs for the snowmobile market. They are looking at the Apex and Nytro motors and probably the skidoo 1200. Their goal is a plug and play system like the ones which they have done for the watercraft market. What would you guys like to see? If anyone has looked at or used their software you know that you can control every parameter of how the motor operates.
Lets talk Motec stand alone ECUs
- Thread starter astro
- Start date
Z
zsnowshredder
Member
I had the Vortex ECU on my Yamaha YZF 450 quad. When I raced my buddy with a stock YZF 450 mine would smoke his.
If it worked like my Vortex, I would be interested in a ECU for my Nytro!
If it worked like my Vortex, I would be interested in a ECU for my Nytro!
sounds great, but i think for it to succeed they might wanna work with a turbo builder or vice versa to really try and make it work well off the get go.
would also need to be somewhat cost effective i would think to be in competition with impulses stand alone fuel. but competition for stand alone would be a good thing
would also need to be somewhat cost effective i would think to be in competition with impulses stand alone fuel. but competition for stand alone would be a good thing
Cost?
cost is something they are going to have to determine. Their watercraft stuff is around 3K. I suggested they might need to be in the 2500 range. As usual you get what you pay for.
Is the impulse box a stand alone or a piggyback system? After you work with a stand alone you will realize the piggyback systems don't do much. For instance on my turbo sled I'm mapping to RPM/Manifold pressure/throttle position with compensation for air temp and engine temp. The ECU controls the wastegate and keeps the boost where I want it. Timing maps can have all the same comps. Want to change the rev limit, no problem.
Want to see what your engine is doing, just download the data and have a look. See attached photo.
New to motec is a knock module which will allow you to tune right to the edge of detonation, no more guessing. If you get some bad fuel and the module hears knock it will pull out whatever amount of timing you want.
Is the impulse box a stand alone or a piggyback system? After you work with a stand alone you will realize the piggyback systems don't do much. For instance on my turbo sled I'm mapping to RPM/Manifold pressure/throttle position with compensation for air temp and engine temp. The ECU controls the wastegate and keeps the boost where I want it. Timing maps can have all the same comps. Want to change the rev limit, no problem.
Want to see what your engine is doing, just download the data and have a look. See attached photo.
New to motec is a knock module which will allow you to tune right to the edge of detonation, no more guessing. If you get some bad fuel and the module hears knock it will pull out whatever amount of timing you want.
knock sensors are hard to calibrate for different motors. It will be interesting to see if they have different maps for different machines.
Are they going to have the capability of driving 8 injectors? 4 for low throttle settings and 4 for boost / wot? Most big power system seem to like those type of dual stage setups. Even now it seems most non-boosted motorcycles are using shower injectors for the high-rpm powerband.
The motec systems are awesome. I have played with one for a little bit. Setting up a base map and just getting the thing to start good, idle, and run can be interesting, especially on weird motors. Though a nice superflow dyno helps that.
Are they going to incorporate the stock crank signal sensors and other stock sensors too. Are they thinking about providing base maps? You said plug and play, but obviously one map will not work for everyone.
When you say engine temp, you really mean coolant temp right?
Cool stuff man. I wish I had more money to afford the things I like to talk about.. ha ah
astro,
that screen shot, is that the built in functionality of the data recording capabilities when using a dyno?
Everything is programmed via lookup tables correct? Like for fuel it is rpm vs throttle setting vs injection event amount (I forget what the units are), ignition would be similar, but then the engine temp and air temp are just 2 dimensional tables? air temp vs. scaling of injector event or ignition event?
that screen shot, is that the built in functionality of the data recording capabilities when using a dyno?
Everything is programmed via lookup tables correct? Like for fuel it is rpm vs throttle setting vs injection event amount (I forget what the units are), ignition would be similar, but then the engine temp and air temp are just 2 dimensional tables? air temp vs. scaling of injector event or ignition event?
Impulse only has a standalone for the Nytro right now and it is a true stand alone. Apex will come sooner or later.
The screen shot is the data logging software I2 that comes with there package. The Ecu is logging whatever you tell it to and you have sensors for. To tune you go out and do a pull, download the log and look st exactly what your A/F is and ajust your fuel maps up or down.
The comp tables are 2D- usually adding or removing according to whatever sensor you are looking at. You can download the software from Motec and play around with it, give you a better idea of what is in it. I'm actually doing their 4D fuel mapping which is kind of time consuming because you do different RPM vs MAP tables for different throttle positions. I went this route because with a single Map vs RPM table for a given boost level at WOT I could tune it to run good but when I was at part throttle for the same boost level it was rich.
I haven't looked to see if the M400 will run 8 injectors. I'm running single 100lb/hr injectors with no problem. plugged right into the stock Seadoo sensors and crank sensor.
Yes you do have to calibrate the knock sensor for each motor. The RXP motor I'm using ended up using the same setting in in both watercraft and snowmobile. All you have to do to calibrate it is to keep bumping up the timing until the motor starts to deto and then use those levels to tell the software to retard the timing. When you look at the data it is real obvious what is happening. I learned I could run 8 more degrees of timing than I was running.
The comp tables are 2D- usually adding or removing according to whatever sensor you are looking at. You can download the software from Motec and play around with it, give you a better idea of what is in it. I'm actually doing their 4D fuel mapping which is kind of time consuming because you do different RPM vs MAP tables for different throttle positions. I went this route because with a single Map vs RPM table for a given boost level at WOT I could tune it to run good but when I was at part throttle for the same boost level it was rich.
I haven't looked to see if the M400 will run 8 injectors. I'm running single 100lb/hr injectors with no problem. plugged right into the stock Seadoo sensors and crank sensor.
Yes you do have to calibrate the knock sensor for each motor. The RXP motor I'm using ended up using the same setting in in both watercraft and snowmobile. All you have to do to calibrate it is to keep bumping up the timing until the motor starts to deto and then use those levels to tell the software to retard the timing. When you look at the data it is real obvious what is happening. I learned I could run 8 more degrees of timing than I was running.
Motec got an R1 motor this summer so maybe we will see something this fall.
Motec has an Apex up and running, should see it on the market soon.
Its been out for awhile now.. For both N/A and turbo applications for the Apex.. Be nice if they made one for the Nytro.. Lots of guys have been using Motec, Vipec and autotronics in the Turbo Jetski appications for racing.. Pricey $$ units though.. http://www.precisionsports.ca/index.php?cPath=2_162Autotronics
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precision sports already have something in the works they had a motor down under last year. there is 2 guys on TY that just got them so we are waiting on test results but the cost is between 3-4k the controller is $2,600 plus software and harness which i can't find actually prices on yet and is going be out of most riders price range more of a race thing like hurricane and osp standalones systems
ok, so with this motec setup, say i wanna throw it on a turbo apex motor, now do i have to go through all the parimeters and set everything or is this more like a plug in and play setup?
Tell them to hurry up. MoTeC is the only way to roll.
D
Duke
Well-known member
The best running mountain sleds I've seen run, are leaving the the stock ecu and fuel injection alone. I'd stick with simple, proven set up's and let others be a Guinea pig. A boosted Apex is alot more difficult to tune than a natural aspirated R1. A bike doesn't see the huge swings in atmospheric pressure and temperature we do in a day of riding.
That will work and has worked for ALOT of people out there as history has shown but people are just DEALING with a sled that has a few hiccups, a bit lean or rich on diffrent days etc.
I still dont understand why some people build a 20,30,40K dollar turbo sled and put a cheap piggyback style fueling maninpulator that cost $20 to make on it to have a sub par running sled???
You see these high dollar, high technology, feature packed standalone ECM's on the best of the best as far as motorsports goes, there is a reason! For example Show me a daily driven 7,8,900, 1000+ WHP supra that is tuned using any kind of piggyback system.....
Im not saying this is for everybody, but there is a market for it IMO if its done right! I dont think we have even gotten close to seeing the POTENTIAL of these turbo'd snowmobiles until you install technology like this!
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