Is the 2 stroke really a dying breed??

[trinitypowder]

I think that with all of the new electronics available, fuel injection etc..., they can make the 2 stroke live a long time. I was racing dirt bikes in the late 90's when Yamaha shook the world with the YZ400F. The other manufactures were all in the game within a 4 years. The 4 stroke design was much easier to ride and appealed to a large market. I was bummed to see the 2 stroke go away, but I raced a '99 YZ400 as soon as I could. They were much easier to ride for a 2-3 hour desert race and besides that, I wanted to win! I realized the 4 stroke would wear me out less than the 2 stroke would after 100 miles. The 30 pound weight difference was almost negligible. Up until the Nytro, that hasn't been the case with snowmobiles(although it's still a heavy at 600 plus wet). From an engineering stand point, the 2 stroke is a fantastic engine. Lot's of power from a relatively simple, and light weight design. That makes them ideal for snowmobiles. Dirt bikes need tractable, controlable, power. Explosiveness is not good for a contact patch the size of a pack of smokes on a slippery surface. I hope I'm right about the "ring ding" of 2 strokes living a long and properous life. I love my two stroke watercraft, my two stroke CR500, and my new two stroke rotax! Plus, as a bonus, all of my riding gear smells good!

 

[Flying Snow]

I hear ya

I used to ride a two stroke bike,Fun to ride. Then i bought a old two stroke quad, Also fun to ride. I started racing quads and got a 4 stroke so much better for racing. But if i was to go trail riding or out in the sand i would want a 2 stroke. 2 Strokes are fun and i cant explain it(geuss you gotta ride one).From what ive heard is that they are running out of 4 stroke power in the bikes and stuff and have been working on making a good reliable feul injected 2 stroke race bike, But thats what ive heard. Gotta love 2 strokes

 

[trinitypowder]

Same deal here brother. I ride 2 strokes now because I'm NOT racing anymore. Just riding for fun. Believe me, a CR500 will put a smile on your face

 

[Weekday Warrior]

dirt bikes are a pisspoor example, they all went 4s because you were allowed to race a 450 in a 250cc class.

if it wern't for that they'd still be on 2s bikes

don't beleive me? try racing a yzf250 against a yz250 and see what happens

 

[trinitypowder]

dirt bikes are a pisspoor example, they all went 4s because you were allowed to race a 450 in a 250cc class.

if it wern't for that they'd still be on 2s bikes

don't beleive me? try racing a yzf250 against a yz250 and see what happens

Thanks for your "uplifting" contribution. The AMA wanted to see change in motorcycle racing, and they did. I know that a 250 4 stroke and a 250 2 stroke are very different indeed(i'm not totally stupid). My point was show how quickly the dirt bike world went 4 stroke. It's taking a much longer time here in snowmobile land, and not for the lack of Yamaha trying. I hope the snowmobile industry can revitalize the 2stroke and watch that technology trickle back to motorcycle land!

 

[drypowder]

lean machines

the 2 stroke is great............however from 2002 to present the motors have been leaned out (epa) so you shouldnt go over 3000 miles without taking the motor apart and regreasing the cranks ............my 03 blew at 3100 miles.....and i was told b 4 3000 miles take motor down and regrease bearings on crank

 

[trinitypowder]

That's where, hopefully, electronics take over and improve the longevity of the 2 banger!

 

[Steamboat-RN]

dirt bikes are a pisspoor example, they all went 4s because you were allowed to race a 450 in a 250cc class.

if it wern't for that they'd still be on 2s bikes

don't beleive me? try racing a yzf250 against a yz250 and see what happens

Dirt bikes are an excellent example. 4 stroke dirt bikes were around long before 2 strokes. But they lagged behind when 2 smokes came on the scene in the 60's. It wasn't until the greenies in CA got a ban on 2 strokes forced the manufactures to develop viable light weight thumpers. The technology boomed and now we have tons of great thumpers to ride.
It was years before anyone started winning on 450 thumpers in the 250 class and even longer until the 250 thumpers won in the 125 class.
When KTM puts a big v-twin in a Polaris chassis, I will stand in line to buy one. Until then, I'll keep my smoker.
BTW, after 8 years of riding KTM 4-strokes I just bought an 08 KTM 300XCW 2stroke.

 

[Weekday Warrior]

I just parted ways with a KTM 380MXC, it put a hurtin on those thumpers

next bike will be a road legal 4s

 

[slabm7]

I had a YZ426F and the 4 stroke dirt bike is much more appealing to a beginner rider than 2 stroke, much more managable power and easy to get used to. But a 2 stroke can be easier to a more experienced rider, easy to rebuild an maintain and as long as you know where that power band is you can make it rock, its each to his own.

 

[Scotford]

2010.... 2 Strokes... No More

From what I have read and understand once the new acord(Montreal Accord) goes through in 2010... the new regulations are so strick on emissions you could not run a two stroke with out haven all these emission gadjets on it... so all the dealer's are going 4-stroke... look skud just announced and poo has ktm so that will be soon...

I Love My 2-Stroke but I think it's a dieing breed... after 2010 be hard to by one new...

Anyways Just My 2cents...

 

[johnny be bad]

Thanks for your "uplifting" contribution. The AMA wanted to see change in motorcycle racing, and they did. I know that a 250 4 stroke and a 250 2 stroke are very different indeed(i'm not totally stupid). My point was show how quickly the dirt bike world went 4 stroke. It's taking a much longer time here in snowmobile land, and not for the lack of Yamaha trying. I hope the snowmobile industry can revitalize the 2stroke and watch that technology trickle back to motorcycle land!

first off! the manufactures never killed 2 stroke dirt bikes in racing, the ama did. they allowed the 4 strokes a to big of a cc margin against the 2stroke, second, they redesigned the supercross tracks to favor the 4 strokes. more open and less technical! sure the jumps are bigger, but the tracks are more open. third, 2 strokes are actually better in the trees then 4 strokes, in cross country racing a lot of the pros went back to 2strokes(they were faster in the tight stuff) and if you ask a mx race team how much more it cost to race 4 strokes now, they will tell ya it tripled the cost to race! and by the way i ride a crf450, $30 oil changes every 4 rides vs $9 for pre mix that last 6 rides! 4 strokes are higher to maintain.

 

[Kong]

Maybe one day the courage of men will fail but this is not that day!

 

[Steamboat-RN]

The AMA had very little to do with it. They did what they had to do to keep race attendance up. California is by far the biggest single market for dirt bikes in the US. When CA outlawed 2-strokes except for closed course racing the manufactures saw the hand writing on the wall and pushed 4-stroke development. They knew it was only a matter of time before other states followed. The AMA and the FIM just adapted to the times.
It was years before anyone came close to a podium finish on a four stroke even with the displacement advantage. As four strokes became more popular tracks were adjusted to make them fit the majority of riders. To appeal to a larger rider base and to make it more evenly competitive. Fans want to see speed and big jumps. A triple used to be a big thing. Now tracks have 3 and 4 in a single circuit. Times change and so do tracks.
I'm fairly sure the manufactures would love to field 2-stroke teams vs 4-strokes teams.
They would love to go back to producing more 2-stroke bikes because the profit margins are far better. But the enviro-nuts would shut them down if they did.
The greenies have a big stiffie when it comes to 2-strokes and they won't get off untill every last one is gone.

 

[heinracing]

i race a crf450r also i think it's 3times the bike a 2 stroke was easier to ride, puts more of a smile on your face also safer cause power is always there, i love my two stroke sleds and jetskis but im very excitied for a polaris big cc 4stroke so i can turbo it and have tons of power only reason i want 4stroke sled

 

[snowhawkaddict]

Wrong!

first off! the manufactures never killed 2 stroke dirt bikes in racing, the ama did.

First marketing, then the consumer and demand are reasons for so few left.

Like a cycle it will return with tech.

Remember the Honda project EXP 2. http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/honda-exp2-14293.html

 

[DamageInc]

From what I have read and understand once the new acord(Montreal Accord) goes through in 2010... the new regulations are so strick on emissions you could not run a two stroke with out haven all these emission gadjets on it... so all the dealer's are going 4-stroke... look skud just announced and poo has ktm so that will be soon...

I Love My 2-Stroke but I think it's a dieing breed... after 2010 be hard to by one new...

Anyways Just My 2cents...

You have been misinformed. DFI two-strokes will have no trouble meeting the 2010 limits. But throttle body two-strokes will be history, and even Doo's SDI could be gone too. The limits are also a fleet average, which means that they can sell some "dirtier" sleds, as long as they sell enough "clean" ones to offset them. So for example, if Doo sells enough of their new DFI two-strokes and their new four-stroke triple, they could sell some SDI sleds, and maybe even a few carbed sleds. So it won't be "hard to buy one new", unless you are on a tight budget (they will be more expensive). Doo's new DFI 600 has a 9500 dollar MSRP on it. Ouch.

BTW, the "montreal accord" is not what is driving the manufacturers to clean up snowmobiles. The U.S. EPA limits are the reason.

 

[89sandman]

4 strokes work great in the dirt but put me on the sand or snow and the 2 stroke is the way to go. need more tire spin in the sand than the 4 stroke will give you. fun element at the dunes is double when you've got decent tire spin. same in the snow, looking for that explosive hard hit when i'm right at the bottom of a 20-30 foot bank that i have to fly up on one ski and get flipped around. not seeing that kind of bang from the 4 strokes.

 

[Ollie]

I think you will see all the makers hedging their bets as far as sleds go.
You will see 4 strokes being offered by all manufacturers by 2010, but you will also see 2 strokes. If the market demands 4 stroke, then you will see the 2 stroke die off.

If they had had the same tech (EFI and computer controls) back when Cali (fruitloop land) put their ban on 2 stroke bikes, the sport could have counter suid and won. They just didn't have the tech. to clean em up.

 

[Xrider]

I have a 450 four stroke dirt bike(yammy) and never thought I could get this level of performance AND reliability out of any machine. It just rips and does it every day. I never think twice about riding alone either. Mods on these thing work too. Get rid of the smog crap, rejet, put a factory race pipe on and hold on baby! I used to think a CR500 was insane until I rode one the other day and it does have a pretty big hit but after riding my 450 it really doesn't feel very strong. I hope they can get the weight down and the power up a little on the sleds soon.