Yeah, I've never really been able to get a FOR SURE story on det sensor but when I admitted to hitting mine while learning to tune in my turbo SOME people thought I was CRAZY for not rebuilding it the second the det light went off. Seems like there is a soft det and a hard det, one is just light, one is light and sled in limp mode??? anyway, not sure but if you're hitting det it's bad news bears and you def need to figure out how to get that bad boy tuned in withOUT causing that damage! like BCislife said, find someone around you who knows your system, hopefully that can help you a lot... Best of luck to ya! And kudos for trying to learn, it's a LOT to bite off!
I would like to hear your thoughts about this burn down
- Thread starter 108snowbandit
- Start date
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frog
Well-known member
Bing Bing Bing. Deto for sure. Not enough octane for the compression ratio and\or boost. Rebuild and add more fuel in the mids and add more octane. Much cheaper and less stressfull to remove fuel\octane than replace pistons and replate cylinders. Deto caused piston to expand too quickly (faster than cylinder) and four corner seize. When a 2-stroke starts to detonate the heat is going straight into the top of the piston rather than out the ex. port and cylinder pressures start to climb. When this starts to happen a drop in egt's will be very noticable and usually under extreme conditions such as this one the piston will expande beyond its' clearance limits and seize. Very common and very easily preventable. Don't sweat it, fix it, tune it and ride it. Not the first and definately won't be the last. Good luck.
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frog
Well-known member
Also, besides starting rich use your plugs as tuning tools, sometimes easier and more accurate than gauges. Look for a burn line, in a good tuned sled the burn line should be close to the bend in the electrode, closer to the bottom tip is safer than closer to the threads and a nice cardboard brown. When tuning it is easiest to run mid range speed and do a plug check and do a wfo run and plug check. After each plug check if you have the proper fuel and started rich you should be able to lean out from there and tune your sled properly. BIGGEST THING WITH TUNING IS BEING SURE THAT YOUR FUEL IS GOOD. JUST CAUSE THE PUMP SAYS 91 DOESN'T MEAN THAT IS WHAT YOUR GETTING. If you need 91 minimum be sure to add at least one gallon of race (110) to be sure you are at that 91 octane mark. Cheap ins IMHO. Good luck.
is this the heat sinking all the pro's do to break in a new engine..
seriously though...i don;t think a Caterpiller engine would survive the same
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108snowbandit
Member
Guys I was running straight avgas at 7500ft at10# that should be perfect right?
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108snowbandit
Member
Anybody in northern Cali want to tune this thing I'm willing to travel and pay for services. I'll have it back up by wed
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108snowbandit
Member
By the way I am totally aware that this was my fault thanks for taking it easy on me. All the advice helps a lot
Talking to a turbo builder, I found out that the 11 Pro det sensors are so sensitive that hitting det 100's of times won't hurt the motor the way it would on the older 800's. I agree that the OP needs more on hands help.
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108snowbandit
Member
What about 12 det sensor
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frog
Well-known member
Can you get 110?
To me it looks octane related more than anything. Check your squish with some solder and talk to the turbo builder to varify.
Good Luck.
At 7500' shouldn't 100ll be enough though? I don't run a boosted pro, so not sure, but seems like guys at 9000 run 50/50 at the same boost... seems off that 1500' lower wouldn't require double the AV gas.
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Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk 2
the die'n detonation, lean part throttle melt down and bad revers death issue's all might be atributed to a tps being out of adjustment
are you going to sand/polish out the pits and run it or replace the head? those aren't fragments are they?
replace it with this big block
http://www.wimp.com/legoengine/
http://www.wimp.com/legoengine/
DET
You DEFINETLY have a detonation issue. There is no such thing as good and bad just detonation and false detonation which is ecu or sensor sensitivity issues. I have seen motors on T115 race gas go down in a 1/4 mile with detonation. My old Union Bay did this and finally found it to be my heads were just a little tight. Do you know for sure that your heads and cylinders are stock heights? Have your cylinders been decked or cut and or head cut or re-domed? Your color in the head looks great if not a little rich and this is your best indicator with the plug being next since it is hard without a bore scope to look at this and the plug is part of the head\combustion chamber. Av gas is even slower burning then race gas so you can run even more timing. Usually if you don't have enough timing dialed in with Av gas you will notice the motor will get slugish and loose power! When the detonation starts it is like thousands of early exploisons happening usually on the lip of piston on the exhaust side and they are WAY too early in the compression cycle so this starts a war with the crank shaft also and generates extreme temps causing the pitting on piston and sometimes the head. Each time it occurs if not corrected it will happen sooner and sooner till the piston which is tightest at the top starts to expand and sieze melting alluminum to the wall and taking out the rings. Once detonation starts it is a compounding problem that every second gets progressively worse. I would cc the other good cylinder first and check squish on exhaust side all the way over to the cylinder wall with a thick solder then call your turbo kit builder and see where he wants you at. If these clearances are off now you need to start seeing where it is off. Put a plate of glass under head and cc also to make sure you are OK there. If this is not it now its mapping or some other timing issue such as offset timing key or a bad stator. There is alot of good info from other member out there so form a game plan and work on each detail to find the issue. If you are lucky all you need is a re-build because it was already wounded but checking stuff out and learning what to look for makes it easier on the wallet. How did your other piston look? Take your time and and ask questions if you are not sure. There is a lot of experience on this forum so use it. Here is a link to more info then you need to know on fuel: http://www.nowearracing.com/tech4.HTML Good Luck!
DISCLAIMER;
All comments are mine mine mine!! However, they may be borrowed free-of-charge at your own risk for up to 2 weeks. $0.25/day late fee. Any disclaimer issued by me is subject to change without notice. I'd say these are my own views but the government would tax me 15% goods and services tax on having an idea. I know enough to know that I don't know enough. I know that you believe that you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. It is highly unlikely that any sentiments expressed above in any way coincide with those of any other person in any way associated with me. My opinions are subject to change without notice. No computers were harmed during the creation of this e-mail, however several billion electrons were abused to ensure its safe delivery. These opinions belong to me. Any re-broadcast or re-transmission of these opinions without the express written consent of the NJF (National Jim foundation) is a violation of applicable copyright laws. This disclaimer disclaims the disclamation of its disclaimancy and anything else you want to be disclaimed. To know everything would be impractical. The access time would be enormous! Today's subliminal thought is: To keep milk from turning sour: Keep it in the cow. Happy New Year!!!!!!!
You DEFINETLY have a detonation issue. There is no such thing as good and bad just detonation and false detonation which is ecu or sensor sensitivity issues. I have seen motors on T115 race gas go down in a 1/4 mile with detonation. My old Union Bay did this and finally found it to be my heads were just a little tight. Do you know for sure that your heads and cylinders are stock heights? Have your cylinders been decked or cut and or head cut or re-domed? Your color in the head looks great if not a little rich and this is your best indicator with the plug being next since it is hard without a bore scope to look at this and the plug is part of the head\combustion chamber. Av gas is even slower burning then race gas so you can run even more timing. Usually if you don't have enough timing dialed in with Av gas you will notice the motor will get slugish and loose power! When the detonation starts it is like thousands of early exploisons happening usually on the lip of piston on the exhaust side and they are WAY too early in the compression cycle so this starts a war with the crank shaft also and generates extreme temps causing the pitting on piston and sometimes the head. Each time it occurs if not corrected it will happen sooner and sooner till the piston which is tightest at the top starts to expand and sieze melting alluminum to the wall and taking out the rings. Once detonation starts it is a compounding problem that every second gets progressively worse. I would cc the other good cylinder first and check squish on exhaust side all the way over to the cylinder wall with a thick solder then call your turbo kit builder and see where he wants you at. If these clearances are off now you need to start seeing where it is off. Put a plate of glass under head and cc also to make sure you are OK there. If this is not it now its mapping or some other timing issue such as offset timing key or a bad stator. There is alot of good info from other member out there so form a game plan and work on each detail to find the issue. If you are lucky all you need is a re-build because it was already wounded but checking stuff out and learning what to look for makes it easier on the wallet. How did your other piston look? Take your time and and ask questions if you are not sure. There is a lot of experience on this forum so use it. Here is a link to more info then you need to know on fuel: http://www.nowearracing.com/tech4.HTML Good Luck!
DISCLAIMER;
All comments are mine mine mine!! However, they may be borrowed free-of-charge at your own risk for up to 2 weeks. $0.25/day late fee. Any disclaimer issued by me is subject to change without notice. I'd say these are my own views but the government would tax me 15% goods and services tax on having an idea. I know enough to know that I don't know enough. I know that you believe that you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. It is highly unlikely that any sentiments expressed above in any way coincide with those of any other person in any way associated with me. My opinions are subject to change without notice. No computers were harmed during the creation of this e-mail, however several billion electrons were abused to ensure its safe delivery. These opinions belong to me. Any re-broadcast or re-transmission of these opinions without the express written consent of the NJF (National Jim foundation) is a violation of applicable copyright laws. This disclaimer disclaims the disclamation of its disclaimancy and anything else you want to be disclaimed. To know everything would be impractical. The access time would be enormous! Today's subliminal thought is: To keep milk from turning sour: Keep it in the cow. Happy New Year!!!!!!!
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Freeride1
Well-known member
The sleeves are bigger so he would need to bore the cases to accept the larger diamater sleeves.
Order a cylinder from Millenium now ... you will send in yours as a core.
Where are you in N. Cali... Rich at Adrenaline Powersports Penn Valley Shop can help you.
Was your turbo kit new or used when you installed it.
Did your sled have ANY running issues before you installed the kit?
100LL is actually 103/104MON... so you most likely are not having det issues from octane deficit unless something is pysically wrong with your motor. You are probably over octane at that boost level.
DET... you say so many times... Sounds like you had DET problems prior to your install??
.
Where are you in N. Cali... Rich at Adrenaline Powersports Penn Valley Shop can help you.
Was your turbo kit new or used when you installed it.
Did your sled have ANY running issues before you installed the kit?
100LL is actually 103/104MON... so you most likely are not having det issues from octane deficit unless something is pysically wrong with your motor. You are probably over octane at that boost level.
DET... you say so many times... Sounds like you had DET problems prior to your install??
.
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Vfrtrader
Well-known member
Sounds like the conclusion is detonation. But I thought with det we would see a hole in the top of the piston, or around the edge of the top of the piston. I looks like the piston expanded and siezed, from a lean condition. For us who aren't the sharpest tools in the motor department, could someone explain how det cause a piston to look like that.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
