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tukernater
Well-known member
Thank you!!!!! everybody please cold seize is old school problem. it det thats it probly mid range easy to fix engine ,but still need to deal with mid range lean spot ,it can happen VERY fast.
I would like to hear your thoughts about this burn down
- Thread starter 108snowbandit
- Start date
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snowmobiler
Well-known member
yep cats will cold seize.i think poo pistons are to sloppy to.
It is hard to tell from looking at the picture, whether there are any gouges taken out of the monoblock. In comparing the part numbers between the 2012 and the 2013 800cc engines, the part numbers that are the same between the two are: the head, the crankshaft and the pistons. What is different is: the monoblock, the gasket below the monoblock and the crankcase.
The gouges won't matter, they can fix a lot. I just had one fixed with a crack in the skirt over an inch long.
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Going West
Well-known member
That block can be fixed no problem.
If it only had 10 miles on on boost I'd be looking over your install very closely. The is absolutely no carbon on piston tops so to me that says it has lots of fuel. Did it die wfo or at part throttle. Was it lean in the mid to cause the det. or is there some other hidden issue
If it only had 10 miles on on boost I'd be looking over your install very closely. The is absolutely no carbon on piston tops so to me that says it has lots of fuel. Did it die wfo or at part throttle. Was it lean in the mid to cause the det. or is there some other hidden issue
thicker skirts on the 13s and machined case to accept them is what i understand
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108snowbandit
Member
So I'm working through this
Here are a few more important facts
A few trips ago the trail up was hard snow temps hit 215 about 10 times went in to limp mode I was stopping every 2 miles and packing snow on tunnel and in track
No exaggeration I've hit det 30-50 times sense turbo install.
I believe between the overheating and det is what killed it
I need to tune the mid range to prevent this. And turn up the oiler
What are your thoughts
I will do rktek combo but what about cylinder? Fix or replace I've got the option to replace at dealer cost
What would be the benefits of a short block
Here are a few more important facts
A few trips ago the trail up was hard snow temps hit 215 about 10 times went in to limp mode I was stopping every 2 miles and packing snow on tunnel and in track
No exaggeration I've hit det 30-50 times sense turbo install.
I believe between the overheating and det is what killed it
I need to tune the mid range to prevent this. And turn up the oiler
What are your thoughts
I will do rktek combo but what about cylinder? Fix or replace I've got the option to replace at dealer cost
What would be the benefits of a short block
C
Carlos Randolph
Active member
Confused?
You say that there is only 10miles on sence the turbo install, yet you hit the det 30-50 times sence the install? If I am reading your last post correctly? Either way that was a quick death for that piston/jug IMHO. You would have seen and felt the tell tail signs previous to doing the turbo, such as the sled killing when ever you tried to put in reverse? Are both pistons/cylionders cooked? What does the head/dome's look like. So so many things that could make it go bad, turbo or not. Bad gas? lean mid range, compression det, injector prob, faulty afr guage/reading, oiling(kink, bubble,wrong setting) ect ect.
My old 08 summitx's motor, ran like a top for 1500miles, not a mark in the pistons/jugs looking at them via the power valves during cleaning/s. Rolled her out of the barn, put in some fresh gas, headed out over the hill, ten miles later got the dreaded wha wha wha wha whoo stop locked up. No idea what happend, but it got the pto piston real bad, looked just like yours does. All I could do was rebuild, and recheck every thing. Got re nic'ed mono from US crome, some fancy after marked pistons (MCB dual rings), put it all back together, double and triple checked all the lines, replaced the sliders/guts in the power valves, new gas, and started adding oil to the tank all the time, and away it went. Put another 1000+ on that motor til I sold it. still had 125psi hot comp in both jugs give or take, and made awsome power after the rebuild.
I would recomend puting the best after market pistons, and reman mono on that you can get/find. "Indy DAN" "Rtek" "slp" "BMP" "PAR" and many others have "kits" for these motors, which is the best would be your choice. They would also be able to offer way more professional insight in how to proceed after the rebuild, as to not have it go down again. Call one or two of them and ask, never hurts to ask....besides that call/s will be the cheapest part of the whole process.....sorry....
What ever the case, you may never know the "cause" for sure, all you can do is make it right from here forward.
You say that there is only 10miles on sence the turbo install, yet you hit the det 30-50 times sence the install? If I am reading your last post correctly? Either way that was a quick death for that piston/jug IMHO. You would have seen and felt the tell tail signs previous to doing the turbo, such as the sled killing when ever you tried to put in reverse? Are both pistons/cylionders cooked? What does the head/dome's look like. So so many things that could make it go bad, turbo or not. Bad gas? lean mid range, compression det, injector prob, faulty afr guage/reading, oiling(kink, bubble,wrong setting) ect ect.
My old 08 summitx's motor, ran like a top for 1500miles, not a mark in the pistons/jugs looking at them via the power valves during cleaning/s. Rolled her out of the barn, put in some fresh gas, headed out over the hill, ten miles later got the dreaded wha wha wha wha whoo stop locked up. No idea what happend, but it got the pto piston real bad, looked just like yours does. All I could do was rebuild, and recheck every thing. Got re nic'ed mono from US crome, some fancy after marked pistons (MCB dual rings), put it all back together, double and triple checked all the lines, replaced the sliders/guts in the power valves, new gas, and started adding oil to the tank all the time, and away it went. Put another 1000+ on that motor til I sold it. still had 125psi hot comp in both jugs give or take, and made awsome power after the rebuild.
I would recomend puting the best after market pistons, and reman mono on that you can get/find. "Indy DAN" "Rtek" "slp" "BMP" "PAR" and many others have "kits" for these motors, which is the best would be your choice. They would also be able to offer way more professional insight in how to proceed after the rebuild, as to not have it go down again. Call one or two of them and ask, never hurts to ask....besides that call/s will be the cheapest part of the whole process.....sorry....
What ever the case, you may never know the "cause" for sure, all you can do is make it right from here forward.
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108snowbandit
Member
Thank you
Yes it died a lot going into reverse
I'm new to the mod sled scene so I def have made some mistakes I'm learning the hard way yes the other side was ready to go.
Yes it died a lot going into reverse
I'm new to the mod sled scene so I def have made some mistakes I'm learning the hard way yes the other side was ready to go.
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108snowbandit
Member
Last edited by a moderator:
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Carlos Randolph
Active member
Dying?
If it was dying alot going into reverse previous to the turbo install, that is a tell tail that she was wounded previous to the install, or vise versa, if it started after. That and if it was hard to start? Either way, the damage has been done. Usually if the sled is doing the, kills going into reverse, its gona be to late any how. How ever this would have been the time to check the compression in hindsight. Kind of a now ya know deal. If my sled does not go into reverse one time I will check the compression, as to save a headache later. It may still be F'ed, but better to be at home, and know, then out in the sticks and say hmmm wonderd about that.
Undestand that I am old, and the first sled I had to ride, I litterally had to work on it every time I wanted to go ride it. That was in the 70's when I was 9-10ish, lets just say they have come along way from back then. The one thing I learned from an early age, is that there is no shame in calling some one who "knows" ,and ask any and all questions. More important Give ALL the info up front, even if there will be a "you should have known better" in the end. Prideful Trial and error sucks...
If it was dying alot going into reverse previous to the turbo install, that is a tell tail that she was wounded previous to the install, or vise versa, if it started after. That and if it was hard to start? Either way, the damage has been done. Usually if the sled is doing the, kills going into reverse, its gona be to late any how. How ever this would have been the time to check the compression in hindsight. Kind of a now ya know deal. If my sled does not go into reverse one time I will check the compression, as to save a headache later. It may still be F'ed, but better to be at home, and know, then out in the sticks and say hmmm wonderd about that.
Undestand that I am old, and the first sled I had to ride, I litterally had to work on it every time I wanted to go ride it. That was in the 70's when I was 9-10ish, lets just say they have come along way from back then. The one thing I learned from an early age, is that there is no shame in calling some one who "knows" ,and ask any and all questions. More important Give ALL the info up front, even if there will be a "you should have known better" in the end. Prideful Trial and error sucks...
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Carlos Randolph
Active member
FYI those small nick/pits in the one dome= no good as well.
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108snowbandit
Member
You guys rock thank for the help
Does anybody know if the 13 cylinder will work with a 12 block
Does anybody know if the 13 cylinder will work with a 12 block
13 and 12 bottom/top ends are different. If you upgrade one you have to upgrade the other. however, a 13 bottom and top end WILL work in a 12 sled as long as you keep electronics and ecu the same (cannot put 13 mapping into a 12 without changing ecu and electronics -some details there i'm skipping over but point is you ccan upgrade the motor but have to upgrade both the bottom and the top and leave all else as a 12.)
11 to 13 will not work due to injectors...
does that answer your question?
11 to 13 will not work due to injectors...
does that answer your question?
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108snowbandit
Member
Yes it does thanks
Hitting det that many times will do some serious damage. had the same issue with my turbo...
You're looking at rebuilding turbo and wondering if you want to do RKTek drop in pistons with it?? (I would suggest it for sure but I would also call RKTek and make sure his pistons are designed for turbos. I talked to him when I had my turbo and I think he said he was in the process of designing pistons that would be better for turbo applications, I believe he has those out now as that was a few years ago...)
As far as replating vs buying new cylinders. replating is a great option. I think the only reason most people would say to buy new was if your cylinders are cracked and/or have holes in them beyond repair. Millennium can work wonders! Also, just suggest checking tolerances on pistons and cylinders once you have them in your hands and want to install them.
like I said above. can't do a 13 top end on a 12 bottom end but I have heard from a few people that the 13 top/bottom end combo is better/stronger.
Other option if you're not sure you want to REALLY deal with tuning is to take off turbo and do a RKTek big bore with that trashed top end...
Is there anyone around you that knows boosted setups (the kind of box you have in particular) very well?
Having someone who knows the proper feel of that setup can save you much more than whatever you give them for the help.
I've been on the giving and receiving ends of that and just a few minutes can make all the difference. If you've hit det 30+ times in 10 miles it seems you could use a solid hand to help out.
Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk 2
Having someone who knows the proper feel of that setup can save you much more than whatever you give them for the help.
I've been on the giving and receiving ends of that and just a few minutes can make all the difference. If you've hit det 30+ times in 10 miles it seems you could use a solid hand to help out.
Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk 2
Not trying to be a jerk, but when the det goes off, I would quit running it ASAP, until I figured out what was causing it. It was trying to tell you something was wrong, you need to listen to it. To me it looks like lack of oil, or it was running way to hot. The piston looks like it stuck in the cylinder bore. Piston top doesn't look like det to me with the little pitting going on there.
