I understand all the reasons to buy an MX bike, but...

[thejean]

What are some of the reasons not to? I get that there is a shifting advantage when climbing but what about tight trails and trees - Will it be too high strung or twitchy? Will you always have to have a 450 MX bike at full song otherwise it falls on its face in the deep? And that extra track speed off the line, can it ever be a hindrance (wouldn't the tractor-like bikes have an advantage in terms of getting moving)? How useable is the torque curve compared to a big bore 500 woods bike? Wondering if there are situations where the slow power delivery of a 500 is an advantage? I read lots of threads and like I said, see much praise about the MX bikes but trying to determine if there are any major downsides for an intermediate rider? Thanks!

 

[supersmith]

There are no downsides for an intermediate rider. I rode my 2013 ktm 450 sxf 1-time on dirt and quickly began to second guess my decision to get an MX style bike. I hadn't ridden a motorcycle in 10yrs. After a full season on the snow, I can say that I don't see any reason to change a thing. We ride in extremely tight wooded areas with little to no flat ground and the MX bike does everything we need it to. You can run from damn near a dead stop in 2nd gear to hitting the rev limiter in no time.

Personally, the only reason I would EVER do a 500 is if I had to have a headlight, kick start, and enough juice for heated grips. They are also more $!

 

[41racing]

I think what it boils down too is what you plan to do with the bike when the horse is not mounted up. I went with a wr because I wanted something I can make street legal and something to ride single track in the woods with. The wr just fit what I wanted to do better. And it comes with a headlight and electric start. If you plan to ride mx or not use it for anything other than a snowbike I'd say get a mx bike.

 

[thejean]

Those are considerations for sure. I was more curious if some find themselves wanting more of a John Deere than a Ferrari in some situations?

 

[cpatts2000]

I have a 12 500 ktm and a 12 450 mx(RM with a athena 500BB) bike both with ST's. I have read a bunch of people saying that the mx bikes are better and it is not what I have found, they are the same when it comes to getting where you want to go. The gear range on the 500 has never been an issue and with a couple of minor mods the 500 comes alive. The downside is that the 500 is waaaay more expensive but I like it better in the dirt and electric start kicks ***. Just my opinion, but buy the bike you want, not the one that other people tell you is the best.

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

mx bik'n

1. you don't want one cause the seats are hard........... hard on your bum.
2. you don't want one cause you might need light.
3. you don't want one cause they are cheap going in but cheap going out.
4. you don't want one cause only 12 guys in the world can really ride one.
5. you don't want one cause 1st may be taller than your girl friend.
6. you don't want one cause it has a 40 minute moto tank.
7. you don't want one cause color selection is limited.
8. you don't want one cause summer use can be discouraging.
9. you don't want one cause you may need a battery.
10. you don't want one cause number plates really serve no purpose.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

1. you don't want one cause the seats are hard........... hard on your bum.
2. you don't want one cause you might need light.
3. you don't want one cause they are cheap going in but cheap going out.
4. you don't want one cause only 12 guys in the world can really ride one.
5. you don't want one cause 1st may be taller than your girl friend.
6. you don't want one cause it has a 40 minute moto tank.
7. you don't want one cause color selection is limited.
8. you don't want one cause summer use can be discouraging.
9. you don't want one cause you may need a battery.
10. you don't want one cause number plates really serve no purpose.

#5 ....lol

hard to complain about them. they work very well, they have a LOT of good engineering behind making them work, they have a hearty power band to haul a track around with, and at elevation, in the summer the power is pretty tame all things considered, ive yet to want less, there is a cool little rotating deal on the right grip if you want less

 

[Rush44]

It's more personal preference than anything else. They are definitely harder to keep under control in the summertime but a few mods can make that issue go away.

Can a wide ratio enduro keep up with the MX? Yup. Is an enduro a better crossover for summer riding? Yup. Do you have more stock options for warmers, e-start, headlights, etc? Yup. Will I ever own one for winter use again? Nope.

 

[Jimb]

Rode my sled with guys on a 500xcw lt and a 450sxf with st this winter, they both have elec start obviously Xcw had a head light. Riders said they preferred the transmission ratio of the Sxf better. Only repeating what they said. They also said they preferred the Sxf front suspension being stiffer than the Xcw. They said similar power. My vote would have been for a husa 570 with a big bore, but thanks to ktm that's gone. 450 Sxf bored to 505 the way to go?

 

[Hbmtr]

lets be clear,you can have the latest and greatest but if you can't twist the throttle whats it all for.It aint the bike its the rider.

 

[thejean]

lets be clear,you can have the latest and greatest but if you can't twist the throttle whats it all for.It aint the bike its the rider.

I'd agree with that. That's why in my original post I made it clear I'm an intermediate rider at best.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out whether there's an optimum bike for the experts vs an optimum bike for the rest of us hacks.

I've fallen into the trap many times of going for the high spec / performance equipment only to realize that you need to be a certain skill level to realize its potential. Otherwise, you're either wasting your money or actually doing more harm than good by not having more foregiving equipment.

 

[powdermuncher]

To Make it simple the MC bike bone stock has a slight edge over the dual sports and is cheap to buy. The Dual sports are miles ahead for the same type ( tight tree riding exploring) that the snow-bike guys like to do in winter when on wheel in the summer.
Now here is a wrench our dealer just did up a turbo YZF and plan to do a WR for next season to get wider gear spacing for the turbo application They feel that the MX bike gears are to tight for the turbo application and may find some more happiness with a wide ratio trany. No one saw that one coming.

 

[Hbmtr]

I'd agree with that. That's why in my original post I made it clear I'm an intermediate rider at best.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out whether there's an optimum bike for the experts vs an optimum bike for the rest of us hacks.

I've fallen into the trap many times of going for the high spec / performance equipment only to realize that you need to be a certain skill level to realize its potential. Otherwise, you're either wasting your money or actually doing more harm than good by not having more foregiving equipment.

I had a friend who i rode with a lot ,he was all into track riding and i was strictly off-road guy.He told me "if you can hold it open all the way around the track then you are ready for more power" spend your money on suspension and set -up.

Well with that being said,i built my crf 488 strictly for a snow bike .Yes i did track it a couple of times but i can't use 50% of the usable power safely.But for a snow bike its good with plenty of torque and rev plus the tranny is closely spaced so I'm not caught between gears.I think it works pretty good but i am no expert on the snow bike.
If it was me and i had a xc-w or wr i would look into trans options for 1st thru 4th
or have another bike for summer.
This has been a great forum for info as i have been watching the snow bike evolution start back in 2011,i traded my 09 dragon for a 07 crf 450 plus cash and started to build a snow bike specific moter with out ever riding one.Good torque with the ability to still rev.Finally after a 2 year wait i got my MH ST this year.
Yep only rode it once on 1 ft snow up a fire rode for 10 miles ,was the bomb!So the crf is my dedicated snow bike.Restored a 95 cr 125 as my trail/track bike and broke both of my legs coming up short on a up hill triple at Hangtown,ca.
So i got to wait til next year to ride the crf and the wife has had enough track for a long while! sorry for the long post.I have way to much time on my hands

 

[Hbmtr]

To Make it simple the MC bike bone stock has a slight edge over the dual sports and is cheap to buy. The Dual sports are miles ahead for the same type ( tight tree riding exploring) that the snow-bike guys like to do in winter when on wheel in the summer.
Now here is a wrench our dealer just did up a turbo YZF and plan to do a WR for next season to get wider gear spacing for the turbo application They feel that the MX bike gears are to tight for the turbo application and may find some more happiness with a wide ratio trany. No one saw that one coming.

I have watched a couple of turbo/snowbike vids with close ratio trans,they hit the rev limiter pretty dam quick.Wonder if a wr trans would fit in the yz cases?

 

[Jimb]

Not turbo but the guys I spoke with said the 500xcw had a really low first and second gear then a big jump to third. What they didn't like was the shift from 2-3 they said it would fall on its face and Sxf with the close ratio was in the power all the time. I'm thinking finding a bike to both dirt track and snowbike the Xcw a better compromise for snow only I'm thinking you want all the power and lite as you can get.

 

[Hbmtr]

Not turbo but the guys I spoke with said the 500xcw had a really low first and second gear then a big jump to third. What they didn't like was the shift from 2-3 they said it would fall on its face and Sxf with the close ratio was in the power all the time. I'm thinking finding a bike to both dirt track and snowbike the Xcw a better compromise for snow only I'm thinking you want all the power and lite as you can get.

Not sure if ktm still builds there xc models still,but the gear ratios they had were closer than the W's.If i was to have one bike for both summer and winter 2t would be a built up 300xc or 450sxf .

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

mx upside

In most markets the mx bikes are more plentiful, less expensive and with a little hunting around you'll find some real low hours used bikes.

when you bolt the mx bike to the mtn horse, power band is docile and not a factor, so if you are going to have a dedicated sno bike, the most violent power band you can buy is a plus.

some bikes can be fitted with lighting coils fairly cheaply.

 

[Rush44]

when you bolt the mx bike to the mtn horse, power band is docile and not a factor, so if you are going to have a dedicated sno bike, the most violent power band you can buy is a plus..

I don't follow you here, CAT. Are you saying that an MX bike has a gentle power delivery when compared to an enduro? That's how I'm reading that statement and you know that isn't the case. The MX is far more aggressive. Along with the close ratio tranny the quick rev building is a big factor in choosing the MX for the snow.

Edit: I just reread your statement.... I get it now... you are saying that if you were not going to cross over to the dirt the MX bike is your best choice because the snow bike application will tame the wildness of the bike when it would be too much in the dirt for some folks. Got it!

 

[thejean]

Ok, I'm thinking 450 XCF potentially now with a dual sport lighting kit. Here in Alberta I believe I can register those for the street and its up to me to make sure that it has the necessary dual sport gear if I was ever to get pulled over by the cops. 450 XCF might not make the best adventure bike but since snowbiking would be the main goal, I can probably live with the short ratio tranny out on the open road for a day here and there. Seems like there is no one solution fits all bike. But then after reading that the wider ratio trannies might be better for turbos, I start to wonder if even this is the right move...?

 

[Hbmtr]

Ok, I'm thinking 450 XCF potentially now with a dual sport lighting kit. Here in Alberta I believe I can register those for the street and its up to me to make sure that it has the necessary dual sport gear if I was ever to get pulled over by the cops. 450 XCF might not make the best adventure bike but since snowbiking would be the main goal, I can probably live with the short ratio tranny out on the open road for a day here and there. Seems like there is no one solution fits all bike. But then after reading that the wider ratio trannies might be better for turbos, I start to wonder if even this is the right move...?

you can always run a tooth larger on front sprocket or smaller on rear,If you are going to turbo in the future then go for the xc-w.Decision's decisions .Certainly a high quality problem LOL