First off, this is not a bashing thread at all. I had chance to try out a 2011 800 E-Tek this weekend , as well as an 800 M, I have an 08 Apex MTX. I was not impressed with either of these sleds, they both seemed to be flat (not much power) Is it because of the difference in torque with the 4 stroke? And as weird as this sounds the E-Tek felt front heavy, and hard to steer, the Mfelt better but my Apex is way easier, maybe because it is what I am use to, I only tried them out in a big field type area, just little hills, I know when it comes to steep hills that both these sleds will out perform the Apex. But whenever I try 2 stroke sled it just reminds me how much I like my Apex.