How exactly does the roadless rule affects snowmobiling?

[TIM]

I don't know the ins and outs of the roadless rule. I am not concerned for this discussion on how it affects, trucks, atvs, utvs, or motorcycles. that is another discussion, at another time.

So how does this rule affect snowmobiles only?

thanks
tim

 

[Wade]

I don't know the ins and outs of the roadless rule. I am not concerned for this discussion on how it affects, trucks, atvs, utvs, or motorcycles. that is another discussion, at another time.

So how does this rule affect snowmobiles only?

thanks
tim

If you can actually get anyone to tell you the truth, you'd be the first to hear it. I've asked the question about a million times, and even posed as people, trying to get them to tell me, but I can't get the truth. Everyone just says not to worry. That it won'd effect your snowmobile area. But, the maps I see show a different picture.

So, there's roadless, and it comes in different flavors. Some of it is basically just wilderness, non motorize. Some is no mining or logging, some is just no new roads. And, some appears to allow some roads (????). There's also questions about access, since most presume you can't run a groomer up a roadless road. And, I assume the forest circus would be hell bent on "returning every road to grade", that they could.

I'm about to the point of head locking someone, until they tell me. Risch is probably the only guy in Idaho that knows. And, the others aren't telling. I smell rat.

 

[FSJ]

From my conversations with FS personel on the Colville, roadless only means no current system roads (there may have been roads in the past). There is no restriction on motorized use and there may be motorized trails. New motorized trails may be constructed in roadless areas.

An area being designated as a roadless does not ban the use of snowmobiles. There are currently inventoried roadless areas in the Colville NF that are open to snowmobiling.

Of course the FS may decide to manage the area as non-motorized, but it is not required. Also, the greenies are pushing to make all roadless areas into wilderness, no matter how unsuitable the area may be.

 

[CleElum Sledhead]

My take on this

Tim,

Are you asking the question about current Roadless areas defined as RARE II, or to areas that would be covered under Clinton's Roadless Rule, once it becomes law under the 111th Congress and Obama?

The answer would be completely different depending on which Roadless you are referring to.

We can currently snowmobile in many so-called Roadless RARE II areas.

Here are a few links to information regarding Clinton's Roadless Rule, which as you probably know, is still bouncing around in the courts.

http://www.snowmobile-alliance.org/uploads/SAWS_Action_Alert_Roadless_Rule_Deadline_is_Nov_15th.htm

Clinton's original Roadless Rule would have contained three classifications for recreation. Primitive, semi-primitive, and non-primitive. Only the areas designated as non-primitive would have remained open for motorized recreation. This would have literally turned the primitive and semi-primitive areas into de-facto wilderness areas. That is why U.S. District Judge Clarence Brimmer ruled in July 2003 that the 58.5 million acres of roadless areas nationwide was a "thinly veiled attempt to designate 'wilderness areas' in violation of the clear and unambiguous process established by the Wilderness Act."


http://www.sharetrails.org/magazine/article.php?id=1254

5) Provide for primitive, semi-primitive non-motorized, and semi-primitive motorized classes of dispersed recreation. Acknowledges that the motorized user values renewal, isolation, independence, and closeness to nature in mostly undisturbed settings.


http://roadless.fs.fed.us/

Read all you wish. Numerous documents.


http://roadless.fs.fed.us/documents/rule/qa/fr.shtml

What are the values of roadless areas?

Roadless areas of national forests and grasslands represent some of the nation’s most highly valued expanses of open space. They possess social and ecological values and characteristics that are becoming scarce in an increasingly developed landscape. Conserving these areas today ensures that options will remain available for future generations. These areas:

• Provide sources of clean drinking water.
• Function as biological strongholds for populations of threatened and endangered species.
• Provide large, relatively undisturbed landscapes important for biological diversity and the long-term survival of many at risk species.
• Present opportunities for primitive, semi-primitive non-motorized, and semi-primitive motorized dispersed recreation.
• Serve as bulwarks against the spread of non-native invasive plant species.
• Offer reference areas for study and research.
• Consist of natural-appearing landscapes with scenic quality.
• Hold traditional cultural properties and sacred sites.

http://roadless.fs.fed.us/documents/rule/rule_fedreg.html

Primitive, Semi-Primitive Non-Motorized, and Semi-Primitive
Motorized classes of dispersed recreation. Roadless areas often provide
outstanding dispersed recreation opportunities such as hiking, camping,
picnicking, wildlife viewing, hunting, fishing, cross-country skiing,
and canoeing. While they may have many Wilderness-like attributes,
unlike Wilderness the use of mountain bikes, and other mechanized means
of travel is often allowed. These areas can also take pressure off
heavily used wilderness areas by providing solitude and quiet, and
dispersed recreation opportunities.

(5) primitive, semi-primitive non-motorized, and semi-primitive motorized classes of dispersed recreation;

 

[TIM]

cle elum

thank you,i am just not one to follow blindly with out being shown how it affects me. There seems to be to many people crying wolf with no answers.

thanks
tim

 

[Bagger]

cle elum

thank you,i am just not one to follow blindly with out being shown how it affects me. There seems to be to many people crying wolf with no answers.

thanks
tim

Tim,

You are wise beyond your years...........

Bag

 

[Wade]

Tell you my experience with roadless rules.

During the Payette Forest Travel Management Plan (third revision), they opened some areas up, due to wildfire damage. And, they put a bunch of new areas, to be closed due to "wildlife".

So, I start asking why these areas and not others, they start spewing excuses. And, one of the ladies blurts out, because the citizens of Idaho, including you motorized users, have asked that these areas be closed. I'm like, no motorized person asked for anything to be closed. She says, that's not what the Governors office thinks. So, I pull up the list of roadless areas in the Payette, and low and behold, if the list of Roadless areas doesn't match the Travel Plan's closed list exactly. Last I heard, it's gonna result in a lawsuit, if they'll ever publish the final plan.

So, they may not officially close much due to the roadless rules, but land managers are using the list, as a list of places to close first. And, some are using the list as an excuse to close those areas.