HOLZ SKID vs Pro Stock Skid

[jakey-boy]

Alright guys I have searched all over but having very little luck finding any information.

From what I understand the holz skid and the pro skid are exactly the same? So from that I assume that a holz skid from a dragon will fit right into a Pro. Is there any improvement from this mod?

The holz skid has fox zero pros which i consider significantly better than the stock Walker Evans but I want to make sure this is some sort of improvement. So basically what is everyone's opinion on these skids and will it fit for sure?

Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[mountainhorse]

NOT the same... plus the Holz skid is more rigid, has bushings and slightly different geometry/rails. Plus the Holz skid has an amazing set of shocks.

IMO the Holz is a definite step-up from the stocker by mere component quality alone.

 

[phatty]

Do yourself a favor and get the timbersled skid... best skid out there for sure!

 

[milehighassassin]

Phatty, what skids have you used? I've had a Holz on an older Rev, loved it.

Was leaning towards a Timbersled until I saw the KMod setup in person. Debating both of them now.


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[dyllaboy]

Why does everyone either forget about or rule out nextech?

 

[Pownar]

Yes, it will fit. I put a Pro skid in my Dragon. The only thing I did was take the "inner rods" (top part of the torque arm) that go from one side of the tunnel to the other and re-use them in the pro skid so I wouldn't have to drill out the holes bigger. So, i'm guessing you could do the opposite.

 

[mountainhorse]

JakeyBoy: The holz skid has fox zero pros which i consider significantly better than the stock Walker Evans but I want to make sure this is some sort of improvement. So basically what is everyone's opinion on these skids and will it fit for sure?

I just re-read this...

Are you talking about a current Generation Alpha-X skid or an older skid....The current gen uses the Fox Float front, Fox Float X-EVOL in the rear??

If the older.. no comparison.. the Geometry of the Pro wins.

If newer... the diff is in the construction quality and the quality of the components... The Fox Float X Evol is a top notch shock that, once set correctly, provides matching top notch performance

Holz skid... listed under the IQ section of the website... bolts into the Pro Chassis. It does include the rails, but also needs some stock skid parts to the tune of about $150.

I use a different brand of skid... but this thread was asking about the Holz/Stock only... So I'll keep it to that.

IMO the use of bushings, rather than steel to Aluminum contact and more rigid construction are pretty good improvement.

At $1800 for the Holz... you can sell your stocker for about $800 - $900 and put that money towards the Afermarket skid of your choice if you want to change skids.

 

[phatty]

Phatty, what skids have you used? I've had a Holz on an older Rev, loved it.

Was leaning towards a Timbersled until I saw the KMod setup in person. Debating both of them now.


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What sled you putting it on? The 2012 and newer timbersled out preforms anything else I have seen or ridden. Adjust-ability for situation, specific control for hill climbing, boondocking in a matter of seconds... Not to mention it handles the biggest drops and bumps I can throw at it.

A couple of scenarios this year that I encountered.
1- Climbing out of a nasty creek drainage. 70 feet out either side with probably 40-50 degree slope in 2 feet of fresh. The kind where if you came down in straight you would bury the sled deep into the other bank. Trying to get out required some really technical moves in switching back the sled 2-3 times through rutted out trenches (think burandt style hops). I simply adjusted the knob to couple the suspension and keep the nose of the sled down and rode out of there with ease. I then sat and watched for 40 minutes as some of the best riders in the industry on stock suspensions, wheeled over, bounced out of control and dug out their stuck trenching sleds. Every single one of those guys wished they had the timbersled skid that day.

2- tracking into a large gap jump. Granted this isnt something most people do, but it illustrates how smooth the timbersled skid is. We built a large gap jump/step up that had a run in of 50 feet down hill, transitioning to flat for 5 feet, then uphill for another 40 feet before launching off the kicker. We all had RMK pros with same clutching. When running into the kicker on the stock suspension it would bottom out and you would lose alot of speed in the transition from downhill,flat,uphill. Full throttle was the only option to clear the gap. With the timbersled it handled the transition so much smoother that the first time I went full throttle (as i had done on the stock set up) I nearly overshot the landing zone. Second time off I was able to back off the throttle a little bit and did it perfect. So much more smooth with the timbersled skid. Its an example of how the aftermarket skid allowed better control and speed to be transferred through rough spots. For the average rider, that could mean the difference between maintaining control and not getting stuck or losing control getting stuck or worse.

 

[diamonddave]

What sled you putting it on? The 2012 and newer timbersled out preforms anything else I have seen or ridden. Adjust-ability for situation, specific control for hill climbing, boondocking in a matter of seconds... Not to mention it handles the biggest drops and bumps I can throw at it.

A couple of scenarios this year that I encountered.
1- Climbing out of a nasty creek drainage. 70 feet out either side with probably 40-50 degree slope in 2 feet of fresh. The kind where if you came down in straight you would bury the sled deep into the other bank. Trying to get out required some really technical moves in switching back the sled 2-3 times through rutted out trenches (think burandt style hops). I simply adjusted the knob to couple the suspension and keep the nose of the sled down and rode out of there with ease. I then sat and watched for 40 minutes as some of the best riders in the industry on stock suspensions, wheeled over, bounced out of control and dug out their stuck trenching sleds. Every single one of those guys wished they had the timbersled skid that day.

2- tracking into a large gap jump. Granted this isnt something most people do, but it illustrates how smooth the timbersled skid is. We built a large gap jump/step up that had a run in of 50 feet down hill, transitioning to flat for 5 feet, then uphill for another 40 feet before launching off the kicker. We all had RMK pros with same clutching. When running into the kicker on the stock suspension it would bottom out and you would lose alot of speed in the transition from downhill,flat,uphill. Full throttle was the only option to clear the gap. With the timbersled it handled the transition so much smoother that the first time I went full throttle (as i had done on the stock set up) I nearly overshot the landing zone. Second time off I was able to back off the throttle a little bit and did it perfect. So much more smooth with the timbersled skid. Its an example of how the aftermarket skid allowed better control and speed to be transferred through rough spots. For the average rider, that could mean the difference between maintaining control and not getting stuck or losing control getting stuck or worse.

Is this with or without boost?

 

[wellfed777]

what dave said

also phatty
have you had any experiance with stock skid aftermarket shocks ??

sorry if we're getting off track but i've been wondering about this

thanks

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Phatty. have you been around a racers edge yet? have heard they are pretty exceptional skids....
and just curious..now that you have some time on the pro..what do you think of it?

 

[milehighassassin]

What sled you putting it on?

As of right now I am on an IQ chassis, assault converted to 155" with a Timbersled bark buster (rmk width) front end with Raptor shocks.

I have plans of eventually going to the Pro, so I know I can still buy the skid and transfer it to the pro when I upgrade.




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[byeatts]

I just re-read this...

Are you talking about a current Generation Alpha-X skid or an older skid....The current gen uses the Fox Float front, Fox Float X-EVOL in the rear??

If the older.. no comparison.. the Geometry of the Pro wins.

If newer... the diff is in the construction quality and the quality of the components... The Fox Float X Evol is a top notch shock that, once set correctly, provides matching top notch performance

Holz skid... listed under the IQ section of the website... bolts into the Pro Chassis. It does include the rails, but also needs some stock skid parts to the tune of about $150.

I use a different brand of skid... but this thread was asking about the Holz/Stock only... So I'll keep it to that.

IMO the use of bushings, rather than steel to Aluminum contact and more rigid construction are pretty good improvement.

At $1800 for the Holz... you can sell your stocker for about $800 - $900 and put that money towards the Afermarket skid of your choice if you want to change skids.

looking and trying to recall when i rode the Holz it looks like any compression in the rear results to the front of the skid moving up as well. In otherwise its solid linked so that the rear wont compress at all without the front being pulled up?My Timbersled adjust where rear compresses about 2 inches before coupling? This could be why I felt the Holz was such a harsh ride but did keep the skis down or does the holz rear compress on its own before coupling, If so how far? Timbersled removed the shocks put the skid through the travel motion and has a Vid showing the compression and coupling of the skid. This was a great visual to see a skid function.Perhaps K-Mod and Holz could make this Vid as well.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

beatts, the holz does travel the rear before it couples..dont remember how much but roughly 2" as well..when setup right..they work very good, I think most peeps have their suspension way too stiff for deep snow and it hurts performance ......they set them up for bombing down the trail or hucking then think..oh its fine for the deep days..its not...the suspension needs to be very soft for the deep days if you want the best performance....

 

[byeatts]

beatts, the holz does travel the rear before it couples..dont remember how much but roughly 2" as well..when setup right..they work very good, I think most peeps have their suspension way too stiff for deep snow and it hurts performance ......they set them up for bombing down the trail or hucking then think..oh its fine for the deep days..its not...the suspension needs to be very soft for the deep days if you want the best performance....

I did feel the Holz had Too much sag so it was always in the coupled position which makes the ride harsh, in order to set the sag at one inch the ride suffered, This is a product of the shock and valving which i,m sure has been updated since i ride one.My Timbersled also had crappy Floats and I had to get a custom E-Vol R rear done by Toms Snowmobile and now extremely plush with rebound.They both side by side climb very well.

 

[AkLogan]

Since when has a coilover been a coupled skid?

 

[phatty]

Phatty. have you been around a racers edge yet? have heard they are pretty exceptional skids....
and just curious..now that you have some time on the pro..what do you think of it?

without boost. The skid/suspension set up becomes much more important for control with boost.

I have not had the opportunity to see the racers edge skid up close and personal on the mountain. Not a lot of people in Utah run them. Would love to ride one though and see how it compares.

I have seen stock skids with aftermarket shox (specifically Fox Evo's). And while its a great improvement over stock, it doesnt provide the type of terrain control adjustablity the timbersled skid does. Case in point, two of the sled climbing out of the creek bed and hitting the jump both had fox evo's all the way around.

The timbersled skid is more about providing control for specific types of terrain exactly in that moment. Adjust-ability to couple down and get skis sticking to the hill for climbs and backing off to get front end hop and dance in the trees. It literally takes 15 seconds to adjust the control knob and then you are off. It really works. I spent 3 years on my Cat with custom shox, thought it was amazing. Then i got to ride an aftermarket suspension full time... it rings true, if you dont try it then you dont know what you are missing... it got me, hook line and sinker!

There are alot of great things I love about the Pro RMK. I really do miss the Cat motor though. Wish Polaris would get that sorted out. There are options though like SLP stage 3/4 kits or Boondocker Boost. Sadly for most of us, just buying a new sled breaks the bank and we don't have $$$$ to upgrade the motors for a few years. It makes up for it with lightweight, but there are still spots where the cat will just flat walk away from pro.

 

[m1kflyingtiger]

Just to add a little to that...when I boosted my sled I upgraded to a coupled skid (went with timbersleds and have been happy). While I was doing my shopping around I met one of the engineers that was on the pro-rmk project. Brock, he works at ice age performance in Bozeman now. He kept telling me all the control advantages of a coupled suspension and I just asked if its that much better why wouldn't they/he have put one on from the factory? The answer kind of suprised me but made some good sense; the uncoupled skid is more playful and fun. You can climb higher, get more technical, and have more controll with a coupled skid, but from the factory the motor doesn't have enough hp to wheelie you over backwards. Stock it climbs amazing and most people don't need more than that, so they made it fun and a fun sled will sell better.

 

[HOLZ]

Alright guys I have searched all over but having very little luck finding any information.

From what I understand the holz skid and the pro skid are exactly the same? So from that I assume that a holz skid from a dragon will fit right into a Pro. Is there any improvement from this mod?

The holz skid has fox zero pros which i consider significantly better than the stock Walker Evans but I want to make sure this is some sort of improvement. So basically what is everyone's opinion on these skids and will it fit for sure?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Yes, the older Holz coil-over skid can fit the Pro chassis.
I wouldn't bother though. Our older coil-over was a great skid, but you wont see much benefit by swapping it into the Pro.
The Pro RMK rear suspension is very similar to our AlphaX and can be made to work better by simply revalving the WER shocks and unlocking some potential, or bolting in some good stock replacement shocks like the Carl’s Fox shock kit.

Some people have installed our AlphaX in the Pro. That's still a good upgrade as long as you're not comparing dollars vs pounds. At the least, it's more durable and has a much better shock package.

 

[jakey-boy]

Thanks for all the info guys. I was wondering because I had someone wanting to trade the Holz instead of a stock pro skid towards my Timbersled. Sounds to me like quality is pretty equal and the shocks are better. Your guy's feedback helps a bunch.