Holz Fox Float Rear Skid Question...

[crf118r]

I have the rear Holz skid with the older modified Fox Float and have a question about the remote reservoir. The instructions say to fill the main chamber first to 115psi then pressurize the backside of the reservoir to 150psi. When I check pressures after they both have the same psi. Is that correct or do I have a problem? Also I have Floats (version 1) on the front and run around 75psi with the stabilizer bar still in, but it sits lower than the D8 sitting next to it with the stock Walkers. Is that right too?

 

[Cardiac Kid]

I have the same rear suspension and I can tell you that what you are saying is all correct as it pertains to the rear shock and I have had this discussion with Holz who have said that is the correct way to set up their rear suspension. Fox doesn’t support this setup procedure on their reservoir shocks and I have been told that Carl's doesn't support this procedure but I have not independently checked on this. Here is what seems wrong with this. The remote reservoir has a floating piston in it. By charging the main body of the shock first to 115 or any other pressure less than the reservoir the following happens.
1.The first thing to happen is the floating piston move all the way to the far side of the reservoir leaving little or no volume for air on the other side or high pressure side.
2. There is zero benefit to this remote other than additional shock volume until you pressurize the other side of the shock to a presser greater than the main shock body.
3. At that point you start pushing the floating piston back so the pressure on both sides of the piston is the same. Equal forces on each side because the area on both sides of the piston are the same.
4 At that point all the pressure in the shock is the same, it has to be. This piston has only moved a fraction away from the reservoir wall, which I haven't calculated because I don’t' know the volume ratios but it is only a portion of the volume available in the reservoir.
5 There are likely deferent forces rates available at this point assuming that the diameter of the piston in the main body is different than the diameter of the piston in the reservoir. But the whole setup seems wrong to me but maybe not.

If you fill reservoir first the following will happen.
1 The floating piston will move all the way to the shock side of the reservoir giving the full volume of the reservoir for piston travel on the high pressure side and the shock body still has full volume also because the fill valve for the shock is located between the two.
2. The shock is then filled to a pressure less than the reservoir and so the forces on the shock side if thid floating piston is less than the reservoir side and there is not shift in pressure or movement of the floating piston at this point.
3 you now have two chambers with two completely different pressures.

In the second case it is very easy to see how this works. The reservoir piston doesn't move until the shock is compressed and the pressure in the main shock reaches 150 psi (the high pressure in the reservoir) and then the two works in unison and the reservoir piston has full travel.

In the first condition both pistons work in unison the moment the shock moves but you will not have a duel rate only a combined rate which works great with spring because they are not a gas and will not expand until the pressures are equal, they will only expand until there max length is reached.

Maybe some Mechanical engineer on here will correct me but I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of the reservoir on this shock using the filling procedure recommended. I have tried both way and there is a noticeable difference.

 

[crf118r]

I'm with you on this. Let's wait to see who else has this "problem" and if somebody has a solution or answer. Thanks though.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I'm with you on this. Let's wait to see who else has this "problem" and if somebody has a solution or answer. Thanks though.

on mine I have been filling my resevoir first to 150 psi..then the shock to 120 psi..works great..up frt on the float 2's I run as low as 55(real tippy) to a high of 65(pretty stabil but still moveable).....

 

[chumbilly1]

float skid

I have the same set-up and am interested in this thread. Who has done the float2 conversion and how much better is it? I have to say the float 1 is unimpressive at best, even with ravalve and fabcraft resi's added. Which fill nozzle is which on the modded holz float rear shock, and what pressure do you run in the front track shock? thanx PS how much weight do you think this saved over stock dragon skid?

 

[crf118r]

I have the same set-up and am interested in this thread. Who has done the float2 conversion and how much better is it? I have to say the float 1 is unimpressive at best, even with ravalve and fabcraft resi's added. Which fill nozzle is which on the modded holz float rear shock, and what pressure do you run in the front track shock? thanx PS how much weight do you think this saved over stock dragon skid?

I remember around 15 lbs between stock and Holz. That's pretty significant!

 

[Sulley]

I was told let all the air out and take the load off the skid. Then air up main chamber then resevoir. I can't remember what I have mine at now but every Fox pump I try sucks, lets 5-15lbs of air out each time I remove or install it and it takes forever to pump them up. So if I take the weight of the sled and check pressure what should I read on top and then on bottom? This suspension is meant to float well in powder and yes, it does sag, unless you decide to crank up the PSI but then the ride quality sucks. I have not played much with my PSI but lookin for some pointers, thinking about going to zero pros instead, not impressed with Floats as of yet.

 

[suitcase]

Is anybody have the fox II and if so are you haveing any problems with them on the holtz rear skid?

 

[IDAHO HOT SHOT]

After 2 seasons of complaining to Holz and my dealer (who is pretty shock savvy) we decided to take off the resevoir and just pressureize the shock.
The first season I ran it on a 700 RMK. It handled great in the powder(which is what they are built for) but no matter how how high I pressureized it, it still bottomed out on the rough trails. Last year, I retro-fitted it to my 09 800 RMK. We sent the shocks back to Holz and had them re-valved for a fat boy. It seemed a little better on the trails but still bottomed out pretty bad, so.... that is why we are trying it without the resevoir. If we ever get any snow around here I will post some updates.

 

[suitcase]

Good info, I will use all I can get. I will go with the holtz rear skid on my new sled, I want the best shock I can get on it, for sure.

 

[guidoxpress]

i would consider the ZBROZ skid shocks...best IMHO...and top notch people..i would assume they will fit fine in the Holz skid as well..

 

[suitcase]

Where are zbroz located at?

 

[HOLZ]

I have the rear Holz skid with the older modified Fox Float and have a question about the remote reservoir. The instructions say to fill the main chamber first to 115psi then pressurize the backside of the reservoir to 150psi. When I check pressures after they both have the same psi. Is that correct or do I have a problem? Also I have Floats (version 1) on the front and run around 75psi with the stabilizer bar still in, but it sits lower than the D8 sitting next to it with the stock Walkers. Is that right too?

It sounds like the piston inside is bleeding by. We can fix it if you send it in to us.
Make sure when filling or changing pressure in the shock that the shock is fully extended.

 

[HOLZ]

..i would assume they will fit fine in the Holz skid as well..

No. Our skid and shocks are different length and geometry than stock and likely quite different from the next brand. No sense in mix-match anyway, you just end up with things that dont work well together.

 

[Sulley]

So for a rider that weights 200lbs fully geared up, what should be the pressures for each? Which one to you air up first, the one on top or the one on bottom of the piggy back?

 

[HOLZ]

So for a rider that weights 200lbs fully geared up, what should be the pressures for each? Which one to you air up first, the one on top or the one on bottom of the piggy back?

I guess that would depend on the sled you are riding (which kit you have), but most of our kits have similar baseline/recommended settings.

Make sure the shock is fully extended or lift your sled off the ground so there is no weight on the suspension.
Fill the MAIN chamber FIRST to 120 psi(next to the blue fittings), then fill the back side of the resi to 160psi. Always fill the backside second and higher than the main- Never the other way around.
Keep in mind, this is a starting point. You can fine tune the ride to suit your own needs

 

[crf118r]

OK, I just tried the procedure again, this time with the track off of the ground and it seems that this is the critical missing link! I removed 30psi to 120 in the main chamber (by the blue fittings) and then put 160 in the other side and checked the main again and it had just a tad under 130 when the other side had 160. I guess I didn't fill as per directions after the initial install and fill for fine tuning to my weight. Stupid me! Thanks for the info Captain Holz!! I do love the a-arms, spindles, and rear skid! My riding buddies say the spindles are supposed to be the same geometry as the stock 08-10's, but there is an obvious and HUGE difference in steering effort. There are even some on Snowest that say the same thing, but I've ridden them back to back several times and I hate stock!! Thanks again.

 

[HOLZ]

OK, I just tried the procedure again, this time with the track off of the ground and it seems that this is the critical missing link! I removed 30psi to 120 in the main chamber (by the blue fittings) and then put 160 in the other side and checked the main again and it had just a tad under 130 when the other side had 160. I guess I didn't fill as per directions after the initial install and fill for fine tuning to my weight. Stupid me! Thanks for the info Captain Holz!! I do love the a-arms, spindles, and rear skid! My riding buddies say the spindles are supposed to be the same geometry as the stock 08-10's, but there is an obvious and HUGE difference in steering effort. There are even some on Snowest that say the same thing, but I've ridden them back to back several times and I hate stock!! Thanks again.

Good, let me know after you ride it if it works better for you. I'm glad everything else is working good too.
If you were the first and only person to set our suspension up different from the instructions I would be surprised. Almost every tech call we get on them can be answered by reading the instructions back over the phone.