help save Dutchman's snow park!

[clutch man]

This snow park sits at 6300 ft the highest snow park in the area, just across from mt Bachelor.
The fact is when or if they build Kapka Snow park this snow park will get closed for snowmobiles. It was built by Snowmobilers and should stay open for Snowmobiles for ever. It looks like the only thing we can do is stop Kapka from being built to keep this great spot. also there is a group that would like to take Tumalo mt from us too. We have to keep are foot in the door and keep Dutchman parking lot and all that is around it
It is time that we let the FS know we will not give up Dutchman snow park.

 

[clutch man]

Come on people get involved here and lets keep this parking lot and all of are ridding area.

 

[volcano buster]

We are hearing both sides of this argument. One, that Kapka will enhance the snowmobiling experience because it will accommodate big trucks/RV's and trailers plus keep Dutchman open. Two, is that Dutchman will close (either by design or dispute from the non-motorized crowd) after Kapka opens.

Is there truth to the actual closure of Dutchman, and if so, do you know a reasonably firm date?

 

[clutch man]

When Kapka is built it is a for sure thing that Dutchman will get restricted to 22" and no parking in mid season for Snowmobilers and changes in the flats too.
Plus there is heavy pressure from the back country skiers to close it to motorized. We can not except any change in Dutchman at all, and after the last tug meeting that the FS will not give up on closing it mid season we can not let this happen. The only way to stop this is to scrap building Kapka. Then we can go back to the old plan and build Dutchman bigger.
When we lose Dutchman and we will when Kapka is built we then will lose more riding area too. It will happen. we have to stop it now.
I have been woking on this since 2004.

 

[volcano buster]

My impression is that OSSA is all over getting this new park. What are you hearing from them about the park and closing Dutchman to motorized, or even restricted to a max of 22'?

 

[clutch man]

They sat at the tug meeting and never made any comment at all when we first heard it. But John spoke up and said it is not closed which is bull 22" is closed to 99% of snowmobilers.
At the last meeting the ED was not there she was at snowmobile convention back east. John was still pushing Kapka even though we(as in DTF) (Dutchman task force) have a letter from OSSA that states they will not back kapka it they changed anything with Dutchman.
It looks like they are recanting on there word.

 

[clutch man]

We need to wright letters to OSSA and to FS that we do not want any change in Dutchman snow park unless they build it bigger.
If there is any change in Dutchman Snow park when Kapka is built we will not accept Kapka.

 

[Oregongirl]

Here's is the SAWS Alert from April 2005 that made recommendations about how to resolve the user conflicts at Dutchman.

http://news.snowmobilealliance.org/2005/04/2nd-annual-dutchman-winter-summit-in-bend-oregon/
(Please note that Katie is no longer a SAWS Rep, so please do not email her, as is indicated as an option in the alert. THANKS!)

We had two Alerts in 2008 on this snowmobiling area:

http://www.snowmobile-alliance.org/...Park_Proposed_Conversion_to_Non-motorized.htm

http://news.snowmobilealliance.org/...xtreme-green-groups-to-close-tumalo-mountain/

Finally, here's the SAWS Alert from 2009 during the scoping comment period for Kapka.

http://news.snowmobilealliance.org/2009/01/kapka-butte-sno-park-scoping-period/

SAWS took alot of heat with this Alert and our opposition of Kapka, but keep in mind that it is not SAWS mission to oppose or support sno-parks or parking in general. Our mission is.......

"To provide education regarding public lands policy and outdoor recreation ethics in order to preserve and protect access to traditional trails and terrain on public lands, so that future generations will be able to enjoy nature through snowmobiling as generations have done in the past."

SAWS has no opposition to a new sno-park in this area, except as it impacts historical and current use of an existing sno-park - Dutchman. Dutchman must remain open to motorized users, year round, without length restrictions.

 

[clutch man]

this is from another forum and a good take on this

I also attended the TUG meeting. What got my attention was that the FS brought out an aerial photo and started explaining what one of the options were that was to be in the EIS. As the explanation developed, the folks who have been deeply involved in this effort almost in sync stated that this WAS NOT WHAT THEY UNDERSTOOD . There was to have skiers crossing the snowmobile rs path - skiers were to be coming out of the trees to cross the snowmobile path as the the snow mobilers were accelerating up a incline. Then the FS cited a meeting where conflicts between snowmobilers and skiers were addressed. As I review the content of the meeting, I get the feeling that there was a large amount of "double speak" happening. I do not get the feeling that the Kapka solution is viable. The FS has gotten input from others winter recreatonists that Kapka is not there bag and as such are not overly enjoyed about it. What I see, as a semi newcomer, is that Kapka was to be an answer to a conflict issue. Kapka will not provide the solution but rather provide a spending of precious and limited funding and not address the problems or issues. I personally believe that ALL winter recreationalists should review the EIS and recommend that Kapka be stopped and that the FS revisit the conflict issue with a priority of solving the problem rather than separating . I hate to recommend that the FS not spend the precious and limited funding for a Kapka solution BUT the Kapka solution is near sighted and will not produce the desired solution. It is time for the current administration , of the FS, to re-visit the requirements that to date has lead to a Kapka solution and come up with a more elegant and realistic solution. I believe that the current FS has the ability to accomplish this and the current Kapka solution IS NOT THE ANSWER. If we ALL respond in the Comment Period to scrap the Kapka solution, then the current FS folks can come up with a solution that is functional and agreeable by all .
A quote from Van

 

[clutch man]

Thank you for the post in here with allot of great info.
You are a big help

 

[clutch man]

This was OSSA's stand on Kapka/Dutchman read the attachment.
I think they are still pushing this any way JMO

 

[clutch man]

A dlynn post
Copied from SledSpace

The sad part of this is that Dutchman will not get expanded without a fight. Once Kapka is built, it will be the FS excuse that you just got a wonderful lower elevation snow park so why complain. Lets just give this little Dutchman to the Back Country Skiers.
Dutchman was set for expansion years ago. The green folks threatened to go to court and the FS caved and took the easy way out and ended the concept of expansion. The FS just stated last week they will not entertain any ideas on expanding Dutchman.
This is one of the reasons why I tried to get the State snowmobile group to involve an attorney back in 2008. (And yes I still have the letter from them stating this fact) They felt we did not need one.
Bottom line..... are we going to allow any changes at Dutchman? If we give an inch it will soon be gone.
Are we willing to dump Kapka to save Dutchman?
Trail 7 will most likely get dumped into the Kapka EIS. That's just another loss to snowmobilers.
Why are there so few people who are discussing this issue. Where is the State Organization. I don't even see them getting involved to give people another perspective.

We can not fight this fight alone. It will take every person you know and many others to have a chance of any success. Support SAWS and any groups that gets involved to save Dutchman from any change. Get involved or don’t complain when Dutchman is a Subaru parking lot.

Just my thoughts and opinion.
this was a quote from dlynn.
Also my opinion
GET INVOLVED OR WE LOSE

 

[RickPDX]

Hello
We all need to write the state association and tell them not to support Kapka!
They need to hear from everyone.
John Vogel OSSA President jvogel@oregonsnow.org
Peggy Speiger OSSA Executive Director pspieger@oregonsnow.org
Please write to them and let your options be known.

RickPDX

 

[clutch man]

write letters

Rick
Thank you for posting the emails to write to.
You are right on and the more people we get doing this the better.

 

[clutch man]

EIS for Kapka soon

We need to tell the FS that we do not want Kapka because it will close
Dutchman snow park.
here is a letter to the local paper.