Help me decide, 450 or 250/300 2stroke

[Camstyn]

Long story short, I got a smoking deal on a new leftover 15 RMZ450 and packaged with a new 17 Camso DTS129 kit. This is my first snow machine,,but been a MXer for 25 years.

I bought this with the intention of using the kit on a new TM 450MX and selling the Suzuki. Nothing against Suzuki’s, I’m just a TM guy. Have 3 of them.

Now one of my TM’s is a 2014 250MX with less than 30 hours and I’ve been planning to sell it for a while now. However, I’m wondering if it would be a good candidate for this snowbike kit rather than buying a new 450?

It’s occured to me that I should just ride the damn Suzuki, too, but I don’t want to have to fuss with it if these TAC forks are not going to be any good for snowbike use. If I have to buy different forks I’d rather just use a TM that already has KYB spring forks.

Any thoughts? Is a 250 a capable machine for this kit? Am I being rediculous?

It could easily be turned into a 300 too, if that’s a game changer.

 

[wwillf01]

It is very capable but for you first year I would run the 450... They will do better all the way around... That being said I run a yz250 in my line up[emoji23] more fun in the spring but in the powder 450s are king

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[wwillf01]

Also you will find a dedicated bike is way convenient

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[chumbilly1]

TM 250/300 is one of the raciest 2t made. Put a 300 top end on it and set it up for top end performance. Will work fine with the right setup.

 

[Camstyn]

It’s definitely an aggressive power delivery in 250 trim, very little roll-on power down low and a big midrange hit. It takes some clutch to keep it singing, like a 125 on steroids.
Apparently with the 300 kit it’s a totally different animal, a very easy to ride bottom-mid but not much up top. Which would be better for this application?

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

It’s definitely an aggressive power delivery in 250 trim, very little roll-on power down low and a big midrange hit. It takes some clutch to keep it singing, like a 125 on steroids.

Apparently with the 300 kit it’s a totally different animal, a very easy to ride bottom-mid but not much up top. Which would be better for this application?

After riding both.



I wouldn’t even consider a 250-300 2 stroke as a snowbike.

(Unless it’s all you have and only on hardpack)

But that said in heavy spring snow my brother and I couldn’t even make it up the packed sled tracks to go ride. (On 300’s)



450 will stomp the 300 every time.



The rev range where power is above 50 hp is key.

That range is where all fun happens.



(Here’s a hint, the grunt motor 300 never gets above 50 hp)

(Even a full mod ktm 300sx pipe head etc etc. )



Here’s a chart that mirrors the real world fun factor on snow.

You want the longest rev range possible and the most power and torque available.

I ride a 16 sxf450, aro 120 currently.

 

[wwillf01]

After riding both.



I wouldn’t even consider a 250-300 2 stroke as a snowbike.

(Unless it’s all you have and only on hardpack)

But that said in heavy spring snow my brother and I couldn’t even make it up the packed sled tracks to go ride. (On 300’s)



450 will stomp the 300 every time.



The rev range where power is above 50 hp is key.

That range is where all fun happens.



(Here’s a hint, the grunt motor 300 never gets above 50 hp)

(Even a full mod ktm 300sx pipe head etc etc. )



Here’s a chart that mirrors the real world fun factor on snow.

You want the longest rev range possible and the most power and torque available.

I ride a 16 sxf450, aro 120 currently.

Now I don't know about not considering it ... They are a blast for an aggressive rider but the 450 will out climb in most situations... Comes down to the long rpm range to tap into the power.... It's like riding a 125 on a trail compared to a 300.. will a 125 do it in the right hands yes..... Is the 300 way easier to do the same thing ... Yes....

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[capulin overdrive]

Yup!^^^




Got both. Yes the 4T has a little more poop, and will out run the 2T in a drag race by a little.




But both get the job done, and will go the same places. Apples and oranges, both are good!

 

[Camstyn]

I like doing things the hard way, so I think you guys just helped me make up my mind.. Project 14 TM 250MX snowbike!

My favorite bike to ride just so happens to be my 144. I enjoy having to be all over the thing to get the most out of it. I don’t need the fastest or easist to go fast on bike, I just need one that is capable. Sounds like the 2-stroke is capable, but not ideal for most. That’s right up my alley.

I’ll try riding it stock first, with the Lectron carb and head mods. I assume it will be lacking somewhere and that will make this a fun project. It will be a fire breathing big bore dragon if need be.

 

[boondocker97]

I'm not a snowbike owner; have only demoed one and rode friends once in a while to try it so take this with a grain of salt. What size bike do you consider to be enough on dirt? Take that and go at least another step up to be "acceptable" on snow. A 250 2s bike for me is "adequate" on dirt but not exciting. A 60hp 450 is about right for the flowing single track I like to ride. Add in power loss due to elevation and the load of the snowbike kit and a stock 450 for me is back to being unexciting. A race built motor would have to be on my list. So if you feel like you can get by with a 125, then a 250 snowbike might be enough.

 

[Camstyn]

I'm not a snowbike owner; have only demoed one and rode friends once in a while to try it so take this with a grain of salt. What size bike do you consider to be enough on dirt? Take that and go at least another step up to be "acceptable" on snow. A 250 2s bike for me is "adequate" on dirt but not exciting. A 60hp 450 is about right for the flowing single track I like to ride. Add in power loss due to elevation and the load of the snowbike kit and a stock 450 for me is back to being unexciting. A race built motor would have to be on my list. So if you feel like you can get by with a 125, then a 250 snowbike might be enough.

I guess we’ll find out. I find 450’s boring to ride, I find that I like something that poses more of a challenge to go fast on and requires aggressive riding. We’ll see if tha carries over to the snow.

I’ve had 125’s, 144’s, 250’s, 300’s, 450’s and 500’s. I’ve always had the most fun riding the 144’s, for MX at least.

 

[wwillf01]

I guess we’ll find out. I find 450’s boring to ride, I find that I like something that poses more of a challenge to go fast on and requires aggressive riding. We’ll see if tha carries over to the snow.

I’ve had 125’s, 144’s, 250’s, 300’s, 450’s and 500’s. I’ve always had the most fun riding the 144’s, for MX at least.

So I am in your same boat... 450s dirt not as much fun as the 144 and 250 I have ... So I had to turbo the 4 stroke (give it a 2 stroke feel) and still have a 2 stroke in the barn...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[powdermuncher]

Love my 250 smoker in the dirt, on snow it is simple 2 stroke if you like to tinker more 4stroke if you like riding more.
Can you make a 2 stroke work -- yes with a lot more effort than a 4 stroke 450. In the right conditions ( hard pack well set base etc) when everything is set up perfect the smokers are great. The 450s are simple set up once be done ride.

 

[wwillf01]

Love my 250 smoker in the dirt, on snow it is simple 2 stroke if you like to tinker more 4stroke if you like riding more.
Can you make a 2 stroke work -- yes with a lot more effort than a 4 stroke 450. In the right conditions ( hard pack well set base etc) when everything is set up perfect the smokers are great. The 450s are simple set up once be done ride.

Agreed

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[eric82930]

2 strokes are NOT just for hard snow. They work fine in super deep. Stock motocross bikes are better and yes you have to tinker with the trail versions to get more power. Carb heat is usually necessary or just a really good wrap if it's not to cold. Stock carbs work fine you don't need a lectron. A 450 on the Rev limiter will make more power for sure but most of the time it doesn't matter and the 2 strokes are more fun and start much easier in the morning.

 

[Pedec]

Depending on where you ride mostly also makes big difference. I most just ditch bang and lower elevation and my ktm 250sx works great with timbersled sx. I would recommend carb heater first thing and carb blanket, Temp guage. Cover rads with something like cardboard for deep snow but make them easy to remove if needed. Also a short thinner track seems to work better with 2 stroke easier to spin. I keep saying I am going to do a 300sx upgrade but having to much fun as 250sx. Just do it ride it like your 144 you will have a blast. I am also running Lectron. .60 fork spring is also a must.

 

[ps3dvx]

Depending on where you ride mostly also makes big difference. I most just ditch bang and lower elevation and my ktm 250sx works great with timbersled sx. I would recommend carb heater first thing and carb blanket, Temp guage. Cover rads with something like cardboard for deep snow but make them easy to remove if needed. Also a short thinner track seems to work better with 2 stroke easier to spin. I keep saying I am going to do a 300sx upgrade but having to much fun as 250sx. Just do it ride it like your 144 you will have a blast. I am also running Lectron. .60 fork spring is also a must.

Have you cut your head or is it stock? And what pipe you go on that

 

[Pedec]

I bought bike 5 years ago from KTM rep and not sure what exactly was done to motor other than it has 210 psi compression and he told me to alway run some race gas which I do 1/4 vp c12. It has fmf pipe and shorty silencer. Riding in the summer with a tire on it really rips and only good as track bike. I think it makes 50hp. I also have a map switch. Bike starts great in the cold with timbersled sx kit it handles really well and has a really flickable light feel. The first year I did not run a avid carb heater with Lectron and I was alway chasing jetting and freezing carb and throttle freezing wide open really sucked. After carb heater bike runs awsome and temp stay up you need a thermostat that come with carb heater and that is where temp gauge probe screws in. Everybody that rides it really enjoys the peppy light feel. A buddy I ride with has ktm350sx and are bike with snowbike kits are really close in power mine might have a little more but my kit is geared really low like a 45mph top speed. Carbon fiber pipe guard seems to help keep heat in the pipe also.

 

[eric82930]

The lectrons have to have heat. The lectrons seem to freeze the slide more than the pwk because of the tight tolerances. The pwk won't usually stick but will freeze the air bleed shut an start running rich. I ran without heat for 2 long seasons and really only had trouble a few times when it was over the bars deep. I had a really good wrap and thermostat. Now i just have the ktm 20 watt electric heater kit.

I took .15 of off the head for high altitude and run pc pipe. 150-155 main . It even started after sitting out overnight at -30.

 

[harooch]

2t

I just joined the 2t club after being on a 450 for the last three years. I am really enjoying the smoker! I went with a ktm 300 xc and got the slavens head and sx computer. It is so nice having a real power band. The 450 linear power is good for beginners but it gets boring after a few years. The 2t power band makes the sport feel brand new to me again. I am having no issues with power or starting etc.