Help! Gearcase oil all over secondary

[main0355]

I've got an 07 M8. Changed the DD oil this fall and have been riding quite a bit with no issues or funny sounds. After a ride this week, I went to inspect my sled and noticed a thin film of DD oil almost everywhere on that side of my sled. Drain plug is tight, fill plug is tight. On the secondary I noticed that DD oil had been spun outward from the bolt that holds it in the shaft. I have removed the secondary and don't notice any play on the input shaft. I thought for sure that I would have play in the input shaft which meant the bearing was blown. I'm at a loss right now.

Does the oil mean a bearing has lost one of its seals and is on its way out?
Is there a seal (not in a bearing) in the case that is blown and needs to be replaced?
Both?

Thanks in advance for the help,
Trevor

 

[clodhopper]

The diamond drives after 2006 vented thru the input shaft on the gearbox. If you take a close look at the bolt that holds the secondary on you will see it has a grove cut in it to let the air move in and out of the drive. My guess is it may be a little too full and is throwing some out. Also, there should be a rubber washer on the secondary retainer to help keep the mess to a mininum, see if that is still there.

 

[main0355]

I did read about that, and noticed the groove in the bolt, but this amount of oil is excessive. The secondary retainer still has the rubber washer on it. I just checked the oil level through the fill hole and it's too low, so I don't think it's from putting too much in.

thx

 

[White Rad]

pulled my dd from 07' M8 last night for inspection and fluid change. noticed where case oil had spun out of the bolt and retainer for the secondary (just a little). When I pulled secondary off the input shaft to DD I noticed a little oil also in the shaft splines and on the two shims for the secondary. Now my sled might of been on its side/upside down a few times on my trip while i was stuck and had to do a roll-and-go so i wanted to see how much oil can come out of that vent grove in the bolt. With the DD in hand I held it upside down for 30sec and enough oil came out the bolt vent to make small mess. So could be possible if your sleds been on its side it came from the bolt vent. Otherwise input shaft bearing seal is probably gone I also noticed after draining the fluid how much was still in there after splitting the case, so i probably overfilled an oz or so....

 

[kraftymike]

I just checked the oil level through the fill hole and it's too low, so I don't think it's from putting too much in.

thx

I think you may be overfull. You should only be putting in the amount of fluid specified for your sled. I don't believe on any DD it comes all the way up to the filler plug. The only way to get your case completley empty before filling is to pull it off the sled and drain on the bench.

 

[clodhopper]

The seal for the input shaft is between the input gear and the sealed bearing that is visible when you remove the secondary and the clutch offset shims. The only way you can inspect the seal is to remove the drive cover and remove the input gear from the cover. I think there would be some play in the bearing if the seal is the problem. But it might just be a good time to take it apart and do an inspection. Better safe than sorry!!!

 

[rcr1978]

I notice that when I ride my sled fast when there's not enough powder around to slow the track speeds down I have more oil mess. I use the full oil bottle wich I think is 12oz and the diamond drive is completely emtpty cause I always take it apart and clean it. I will not that I really never had any noticable mess with the stock bolt and cap, I have RKT stuff now and the bolt is cut a little different probably just a coincidence though.

 

[backcountryislife]

I've had this problem each time I get stuck & have to lay sled on it's left side, after that I've got a fully greased drivetrain!

Last week I noticed my top two bolts in the DD case are broken, the heads broke off.
I've never been inside this DD, not sure why they broke.

and now I can't seem to get a socket on the 5/8 bolt inside the axle, nothing's going right.

 

[SaberKitty]

...and now I can't seem to get a socket on the 5/8 bolt inside the axle, nothing's going right.

Try a 16-mm.

 

[main0355]

Just finished pulling my DD. Split it open. Everything looks good??? It was low on oil just like I thought. I could only get just under 6oz. out of it. Glad I decided to worry about it. I removed the input shaft to inspect the seal and bearing, and both look to be in good shape. No play in the bearing, no rough spots in the rotation. Seal is completely in tact, IMO doesn't need to be replaced. I inspected the gasket between the cases and it had good coverage on all of the mating surfaces. There was no metal or any kind of debris inside the case other than some bits of gasket, which I have cleaned out. I'm out of ideas.

I do see how oil has the chance to escape through the vent hole in the input shaft, but I have a hard time believing that I lost 6oz of oil that way. I've been doing a fair amount of pow riding (high angle turns and the occasional stuck on its side) but I just can't imagine losing 6oz like that? At this rate I'll go through a half gallon or more this season!

I guess my plan of attack will be to get a new bearing and seal, put it back together and keep and eye on it, unless someone has a better idea.

From other posts, the sealed bearing on the outboard side of the input shaft is a 6203. Does anybody know the part number for the oil seal? Is it Cat specific or can I get that at the auto parts store too?

 

[main0355]

Bump. Anybody help out with the oil seal part number?

 

[m7ascent]

I think I can help you out here, I've had to replace the seals in my DD because the input side started leaking. When I opened up the case, the input seal looked like brand new to the eye, but once I replaced it it quit leaking. If your bearing isn't rough or loose in rotation, I don't think I would worry about it. But, if you gonna open it up, I would just spend the 15 bucks and get a seal kit from http://bd-xtreme.com/bdxdiamonddrivesealkit07.aspx ...and change them all out. Bd is great to work with and then you won't have to worry about it for a long time. They also offer a oil change kit to compliment if you need it. http://bd-xtreme.com/bdxxtremeduty12ozoilchangekit07-upreversecase.aspx

 

[White Rad]

hey main also if your case still has rtv seal on it there is a gasket kit you should put it back together with...

 

[snowcatter]

The gasket is meant for 09-10 diamond drives, not for 07-08 drives. The thickness of the gasket will modify your internal spacing . . . I don't recommend it. You will want to concider a bearing update for your drive as well . . . look up thread "09 diamond drive bearing failure" for more info on this. I posted info on the 07-08 drives in that thread

 

[snowcatter]

Bump. Anybody help out with the oil seal part number?

output shaft oil seal - 2602-067
Input shaft oil seal -1602-875

 

[main0355]

Thanks for the replies. Tried to get the parts today from the "local" Arctic Cat dealer. He didn't have a single part that I needed other than gearcase oil!!! WTF!!! I don't even know why I bothered driving 30min to see that joke of a store. He did try to sell me the gasket kit that said 09-10 on it, which made me leary. In the end I politely excused myself and called BDX. Not only did he have all the parts in stock, he knew what I was talking about and he will ship them tomorrow. I'll have the parts @ my door before the dealer could even think about seeing them. Great job BDX. Gunnison Motorsports you just lost ANOTHER customer.

 

[White Rad]

The gasket is meant for 09-10 diamond drives, not for 07-08 drives. The thickness of the gasket will modify your internal spacing . . . I don't recommend it. You will want to concider a bearing update for your drive as well . . . look up thread "09 diamond drive bearing failure" for more info on this. I posted info on the 07-08 drives in that thread

does cat make two different gaskets kits, one if which is for the 07-08 drives. I got one that i was just about to put in and it has two spacers that are supposed to go in the bearing cups to account for the extra width of the gasket. i could sware the dealer said it was specifically for the 07-08 but if those spacers are a bad idea i got some gasket maker sitting in the shop....

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

DD oil issues

1. the guy that posted that looks don't determine the condition of the output oil seal is correct, if you're in there replace it.

2. on the m1000's/ 162 stiff tracks/ 250 lb agressive riders that can't keep their foot out of it on landing etc , the case just flat flex's as the engine tries to suck the secondary towards the primary clutch..........and anyone abusing an m8 might have the same issue's like a leaking case towards the foot well, case bolts stipped or heads snapped, and too much of this you migh chit out the gearcase as we have heard.

3. case bolt stipped ?, tap them out to next bigger size and use grade 8 bolts, its helps, bigger bolts / more torque / clean a prime the cases before applying gasket goo is a must.

4. I have just added vents to the outer case to finally not have drool always coming out of the output seal, pressure in there and they leak. 80mph and long uphills and you often can have a lubed clutch surface and belt and might asw well head home. Venting is just....... tap an 1/8" thread brass hose barb in the top of the outer case and loop 4 ft of carb vent hose up over your steering loop and plug the bolt so you won't have any oiled clutch after a roll over.

CAT and BDX both know the case flexing / leaking/ gear blowing is a sometimes issue, its just a less than 10% ownership problem, below the range of alarm.........so you gotta fix it yourself.

the correct 07 case gaseket requires the use of the shims , I have used both the kit and good gasket sealant after venting, I prefer the venting and gasket cement cause it requires no parts, and usually a kit you have to wait for.

While 07 owners screamed about this and cat said it wasn't a problem, the factory has improved the cases, made the gasket kit and canned that case in the bigger hp sleds to avoid the problem that doesn't exist.

so progress has been made.