Heavy steering on 09 CF8SP Powder Pro's

[ripsass]

How can I fix this?
Noticed at teh dealer that 4 out of 5 sleds on the floor turn nice and easy, but the fifth or so requires about 3-4 times more effort to turn the bars.

Mine is one of those and it's really getting to me since adding the Powder Pro's.
It's HARD to turn in a big way. I'm no wuss either something's jacked up here.
Been this way since new (550 miles now) dealer won't acknowledge that the problem exists even though I showed them two completely seized heim-joints in the tie rods.
I roasted them with a torch a little and hosed them with graphite lube. That helped a lot but it's still super hard to turn like to the point that I'm afraid something's going to break sometime. Plus my arms are toast after a couple hours too.
I've got the limiters all the way out and a 170# spring in the front skid shock and the pre-load almost maxed out. That helped a lot but it's still far from the other M's and CF's I've ridden before.

Any ideas that don't include the words dealer or warranty? They will completely blow me off so i'm on my own here.

 

[Bearcat]

Have you dropped front arm to lower position? That should help a little. PPs don't need that much ski pressure as stock ones. Here in Finland race people cut bottom edges of the PPs so they will not hook that much into snow.

 

[diggerdown]

Like any problem isolate the componets and start testing. A tight joint here, a tight bushing there and so on. If all the bushings and joints are free and not binding, you need to adjust your skid to carry more weight, loosen the ski shock spring (or air) and maybe put cheaper skags non. If you are running 10" of carbide it's going to turn a lot harder than a 4" one. When checking the individual componets remember that a bushing can seem fine until you add weight.

 

[Bacon]

Try lifting the front end off the ground and see if the steering is still hard. It should turn very easy. Sounds like there might be some binding some where.

 

[ripsass]

It's definitely a combination of things.
The PP's and something jacked in the steering.
Adding the PP's just made it worse. I've get 6" carbides fwiw and they refuse to get dull! Never had any before that really worked and it's almost caused me to roll it a few times. Keep thinking they will get dull soon but they haven't so far. Even ran around the block on dry pavement a couple times!

What are the guys in Finland doing to the PP's? I was reading lastnight on here about the mod that Carls Cycle is doing to the sides of them but that sounds more like it's for a sidehilling issue. Not just general "hard steering".

 

[ripsass]

Have you dropped front arm to lower position? That should help a little. PPs don't need that much ski pressure as stock ones. Here in Finland race people cut bottom edges of the PPs so they will not hook that much into snow.

Is the hole already there or do you have to drill it? Think i remember having to drill it on other sleds before from the back side. It was marked on the backing plate on the inside of the tunnel plate.
Is that the deal?

Hate to drill any more holes inless I really have too. I'm trying to get motivated here to go mess with it. Gotta be an explanation here because I've rode other M/CF's that were half the effort to steer...

 

[klim&Cat]

holes

there is an older post that also talked about this problem someone took good pictures of the inside of tunnel new holes and old holes

 

[Bearcat]

There's two hole templates inside the tunnel. You just need to drill them open.

-09 steering is heavier because it's faster than previous models. Turning radius is tighter. Older models steering was way more loose but you needed more space to turn. Actually biggest difference is in the spindles: tie rods mounts closer to "spindle origin".

I've tried to find complete steering system to my -06 as it needs huge space to turn. In tight trees there's not always required space available. Steering isn't heavy but I'd rather get heavier steering than non-turning skis

 

[ripsass]

I'm considering moving the mounting point of the drag link to steering post closer to the post a bit. There are two more holes on it that look to be for weight savings. Not big enough to put the mounting bolt through but could easily be opened up with a drill bit.

On the outside of the tunnel there's another bolt hole through the reinforcing plate about an inch below and behind the existing mount hole. Is this the place to move it too?

 

[notboosted]

Does the 09 cf8 snopro have the fox float front shocks? I ride 09 M8 snopro. I increased the front shock pressure to 105lbs and got rid of the hard steering problem.

 

[Photomaker]

Not sure if it is the same on the newer sleds, but on my 05 M7 if I tighten the two nuts on the bolts that hold the steering post too tight, it makes it very hard to turn the steering as you describe. The nuts are nylon locking nuts so you can back them off a little to get the desired steering pressure and not worry that they will further lossen.

 

[HiWaYman92]

Tie rod ends. Some bind up when they are tightened up, and some don't. If you back the nut off half a turn it can loosen them up.

 

[sledbilly]

if I tighten the two nuts on the bolts that hold the steering post too tight, it makes it very hard to turn the steering

I just installed the telescoping kit on my 09 cf 800. The non telescoping steering was not heavy.

After installing the kit the steering was noticeably heavier than before. Also, the attachment link for the steering arm must be mounted differently as now the ski alignment is off.

So I disconnected the steering arm and the steering was still heavy, way heavy. Looking more closely I had pinched a small piece of the rubber boot into the post blocks that carry the steering post.

Corrected that and the steering was still tight but only turning to the right...this may be because the attachment point for the steering arm is different from the non telescoping post....with the angle on the post itself it must be canting itself within the post carrier blocks causing a bind.

I backed off the bolts some and that has helped but there is still a slight heaviness turning to the right w/o the arm. Probably won't be noticeable riding but we'll see.

One thing I did not do is take a closer look at the carrier blocks or the post for some rough spots...maybe something on the post causing this....excess paint?

 

[high time]

Mine was hard for the first 100 miles too.

After one trip to the mountains it's fine.

Owen

 

[ripsass]

After one trip to the mountains it's fine.

Owen

I have 600 miles on mine now. Found and fixed all the seized/stiff joints and linkages. This was a big help.

Then I added the Powder Pro's and it was back to being hard as hell to turn again...


Here's what I just did, and the results.

Took the carbides (wear bars) and cut off the fore and aft portion of the wear bar that runs past the mounting studs. About 3.5" front and 2" on the rear.
Then I beveled the ends at about a 60* angle to keep them from snagging them on things.
This resulted in about a 20% reduction of effort to turn the bars and the skis still hooked well on powder and hard-packed.

Next I reduced the air pressure in the rear Float to 90 psi (from 120). This resulted in about another 10% reduction of effort to steer but the rear is too soft for me at 235 lbs and it created a bit of push in corners. But not bad.

Definitely on the right track here. Called SLP today and they suggested grinding an inch off each end of the carbide insert itself. Saying that 6" was just too much carbide for someone who rarely encounters ice.

Also grabbes a set of Sly Dogs Powder Hounds from a friend today. Just have to come up with mounting hardware to give them a try.

At the point they are at now I think the steering effort is finally manageable, though not as light as some M's I've ridden.