Have we set ourselves up ?

[Highpockets]

Having been involved with sleds for quite a while,when a 136x1.5 was considered "THE" mountain sled,I have to wonder while reading about the many recent AVY threads ? With the current sleds sporting lighter,bigger,faster,better handling setups right from the factory,its almost like driving a twin turbo Lambo in a school zone ? By that,I mean,what would have been unridable,not even on the map ten years ago,now seems to be almost achievable on a current mtn sled.Add to that a VERY unstable snowpack and its a disaster,waiting(and already) happening.Just curious how many are riding areas that would not be reachable 10 years ago,as someone else posted,if the avy deaths keep climbing,our friendly uncle will step in and "help" us regulate where,when and how we can ride.Opinions ?

 

[MtnDoo]

Obama will fix this.
Once he's done "Monitoring Gaza from Hawaii".

MD.

 

[Rock Star]

Vince, hola. Yes. The new machines have been engineered to get us where we obviously don't belong when we don't belong there. Unfortunately people have not been engineered for the new terrain I guess. something has to change. Best thing would be behavior. I can see our freedoms being pulled if we don't change our ways. that would be Sad. These deaths are horrible.

 

[theultrarider]

I hate to say it, but us old farts have been saying this for a while now. Back when panthers, everests and wide tracks where THEE mountian sleds, times were different. We are now riding terrian with stock sleds that NOBODY could get to. And there is no end in sight. While i do surely enjoy what the new sleds can do, one must repect where they are taking you. Kinda like upgrading to a 28' Bayliner Trophy form a 12' lund. Sure you can fish bigger water, but you still must look at the marine weather for the waters you are heading out into. With your 12 footer you probably never thought about taking it into the ocean. Now with your big boat, you head into water that will sink a ship if you ignore the weather. Pay attnetion to the weather and the mountains poeple. If its not right, find somewhere else to play or another toy to play with that day. If you make that choice, There WILL be another day!!! Rant over. I hate to see anyone lose their life. There have been too many lately and I hate to say, sure to be many more soon.

 

[mod03rmk800]

Don't see them doing that in the water sports. I don't have any facts however I believe that power water sports have to have a much higher accident/death toll.
A percentage of backcountry riders will get hurt. A percentage of boaters are gonna get hurt.A percentage of skydivers will also get hurt and so on. It is a sad deal when things happen. We all need to be keen on our surroundings and conditions. But bad things will happen whether by bad decisions or just freak deals.

 

[Highpockets]

Vince, hola. Yes. The new machines have been engineered to get us where we obviously don't belong when we don't belong there. Unfortunately people have not been engineered for the new terrain I guess. something has to change. Best thing would be behavior. I can see our freedoms being pulled if we don't change our ways. that would be Sad. These deaths are horrible.

We need to be careful as well as responsible,its tough to putt around on the meadows with a 174 Turbo knowing that you have enough machine to tear up most any hill. Please be carefull all,live to ride another day,Rock,I hope to get up and ride with you again soon,work and everything have conspired to keep me out of the mountains or a while now.

 

[Wade]

Vince, hola. Yes. The new machines have been engineered to get us where we obviously don't belong when we don't belong there. Unfortunately people have not been engineered for the new terrain I guess. something has to change. Best thing would be behavior. I can see our freedoms being pulled if we don't change our ways. that would be Sad. These deaths are horrible.

Yes were going places. But, a lot of these places are near a trail. So, the machines, yes, but access in general is better due to better grooming technology. Due to better trails, average untrained people are getting back further, than they should, on bad days. You don't have to be on a vertical cliff, to be killed with this snow. Just about any slope, of trail below a slow, can slide. I think were seeing a lot more people going in any conditions. That's all.

I also think, that you used to never hear about every single death, as a front page headline. The media can't wait for a snowboard or a snowmobiler to die. I mean, just the other day, news flash, car looses control and hits kids party. I know it's news, but is that all they have to talk about? Guess your average news reader is fixated on death stories. But, not just any death stories. After all, 150 people die every day in auto accidents. But, rarely is it national news.

Remember, people are dieing on controlled terrain. Like Jackson Hole Ski Area, not just some vertical, unreachable hill. They'll use it as an excuse to close more terrain. But, then a lot of us will just start skiing backcountry, and we'll be in just as much danger.

 

[MtnDoo]

December 2008

Vail - skier
Aspen - skier
Crested Butte - snowboarder
Cache County Utah - 2 snowmobilers
Grand Lake - 2 snowmobilers
Jackson Hole - Skier
Squaw Valley - Skier
Fernie - 8 snowmobilers (possibly 4)

With this kind of mix of users, it's easy to blame it on the snowfall, wind and weather. (CNN will blame Global Warming and The Bush Administration) However, being able to make good decisions going into the backcountry given whatever conditions Ma Nature throws your way is the key to avoiding catastrophe, and enjoying the machines and terrain.

MD.

 

[Highpockets]

December 2008

Vail - skier
Aspen - skier
Crested Butte - snowboarder
Cache County Utah - 2 snowmobilers
Grand Lake - 2 snowmobilers
Jackson Hole - Skier
Squaw Valley - Skier
Fernie - 8 snowmobilers (possibly 4)

With this kind of mix of users, it's easy to blame it on the snowfall, wind and weather. (CNN will blame Global Warming and The Bush Administration) However, being able to make good decisions going into the backcountry given whatever conditions Ma Nature throws your way is the key to avoiding catastrophe, and enjoying the machines and terrain.

MD.

I agree,that is what it takes,bottom line.I guess we need to continue to educate and be extra careful,regardless of what winter sport we choose.And as someone else pointed out,groomed trails going through/below dangerous slopes aren't any safer.

 

[cmantle1]

I think its the natural progression for sleds to have become what they are, and for people to start going where we are going on these things. Like someone else said, with this new technology also come a need for new knowledge. i know many guys that ride hard, but they know when to call it a day or just not ride. i think a good 75% percent of avi deaths are a result of people not being able to make this call. whos to blame? no one, but the people themselves need to understand the risks better in my opinion.

Education is essential, i try to spread eveything i know to new people in the sport and learn all i can from others....

lets be safe everyone.

 

[Rock Star]

MD. you are right. It ALL comes down to making good decisions. our parameters have changed and we need to adjust as well. As you did after your near miss and as we did after Animal....

The mind blower this year are the in-bounds avys at great ski areas.

 

[cmantle1]

MD. you are right. It ALL comes down to making good decisions. our parameters have changed and we need to adjust as well. As you did after your near miss and as we did after Animal....

The mind blower this year are the in-bounds avys at great ski areas.

i think way to many people assume that ski patrol with dynamite are the key to ending all avi's.....

i always wear my beacon when skiing steep stuff at a resort....takes 30 seconds to put on, and would have saved one ladies life in Utah this year.....

 

[mb1]

I can't see the authorities making big waves in this department, I mean, look at motorcycles...... correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't even helmet laws in many states.

I think there are more problems with kids buying 180 hp sportbikes (read: deaths) than in the hills. No rules there.

Add to that the difficulty to enforce rules, and I think it's up to us, the riders, to protect ourselves.

Matt

 

[theultrarider]

I can't see the authorities making big waves in this department, I mean, look at motorcycles...... correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't even helmet laws in many states.

I think there are more problems with kids buying 180 hp sportbikes (read: deaths) than in the hills. No rules there.

Add to that the difficulty to enforce rules, and I think it's up to us, the riders, to protect ourselves.

Matt

Agreed. I don't think the feds or anyone else going to shut us down anytime soon. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't start making better choices though so that our familiies don't suffer when we come home in a body bag. I had a freind pull a few climbs on a hill 2 weeks ago right next to a fresh avy. This face was still so loaded it was just begging to come down. I was cursing loadly at my kid since I thought he was one of them. My boy finally shouts at me from right behind me"just how stupid do you think I am". Well, I guess I have shouted at him enough that some of it HAS sunk in!LOL I felt pretty stupid of myslef and prouod of my boy at the same time. Now my buddies, I still wanted to throttle them!

 

[sleddin pete]

Mountain sleds have progressed extremely in the last ten years.My 99 RMK 600 was a great sled in its day,but nothing like todays sleds.

Common sense is the most important thing to use,If it doesn't feel right to you,use that first instinct and play it safe.Choose your battles wisely.There are areas that I ride that make me feel uncomfortable sometimes.I'm not afraid to voice my opinion about riding routes thru these areas.

I have people that love me and I'm not ready to leave them yet.To those that we've lost already this season I'm sad for your families and friends.

 

[Clarke673]

I have been going the same places just it takes a lot less work to get there and once im there i go a lot higher.

Remember, back in the day we also didn't have beacons, abs bags, shovels, or any avy knowledge other than jimbo was killed on that hill and that hill looks like it could slide.

 

[MtnDoo]

Right on.... A ski area is primarily an uphill transportation company with a few snack bars and a cafeteria in the mix. We have avalanches in ski areas just the same. We have snow there, wind loaded terrain, storm layers, and high density of users. A team of patrollers with a bag of air-cans can't guarantee your safety unless they remove ALL of the snow from the mountain. I've seen avalanches at Alta, Snowbird, Crested Butte, A-Basin, Vail, hell even Holiday Valley, NY in the woods - you name it. In the end, your ability to read the conditions and make a decision to go/no-go is really the only thing keeping you alive.

Beacons/probes/shovels/ABS/Ava-Lung/SPOT, whatever are only focused on reducing the time to recovery - that magic 15 minutes if you're lucky to not have been asphyxiated or pulverized in advance - none of those devices can remove the loosing side of the risk you accept and that got you into the event in the first place. That is your responsibility.

MD.

 

[Vertical_Escape]

Right on.... A ski area is primarily an uphill transportation company with a few snack bars and a cafeteria in the mix. We have avalanches in ski areas just the same. We have snow there, wind loaded terrain, storm layers, and high density of users. A team of patrollers with a bag of air-cans can't guarantee your safety unless they remove ALL of the snow from the mountain. I've seen avalanches at Alta, Snowbird, Crested Butte, A-Basin, Vail, hell even Holiday Valley, NY in the woods - you name it. In the end, your ability to read the conditions and make a decision to go/no-go is really the only thing keeping you alive.

Beacons/probes/shovels/ABS/Ava-Lung/SPOT, whatever are only focused on reducing the time to recovery - that magic 15 minutes if you're lucky to not have been asphyxiated or pulverized in advance - none of those devices can remove the loosing side of the risk you accept and that got you into the event in the first place. That is your responsibility.

MD.

Props MD, best phrasing I've seen so far this season.

 

[Dobber1]

hell even Holiday Valley, NY in the woods - you name it.

Home sweet home.....well.....used to be.

 

[MtnDoo]

Dobber1 - see attached pic.
That one should look kind of familiar to ya then - "The Wall" with a little too much man made snow applied.

MD.

19 Monroe, Ellicottville, NY