Hannity

[xrated]

Just a thought on that, when a lb of hydro is between 1500 to 2k$ they can afford to spend the major $ to grow it that way. If we grew crops the same way a salad is going to be 20$. Cost of producing will be much greater than what consumers are willing to pay.
The rediculous part is that valley has a gdp of 4.5 billion $. Take the taxes on that out of the CA economy and it sheds some light on why the state is in the red and is scrambling for cash. End of the day the enviro nazi's put more value on a lil 3 in fish than they do on thousands of peoples lives. That IMO is ratarded.

yes there would be initial costs...just like buying land. but isn't it feasible that having "perfect" weather, etc would allow for max yields? Wouldn't the lack of hail insurance, etc help to offset the initail costs? by growing year round in a "perfect" field wouldn't costs drop since no longer would sweet corn, etc be a seasonal crop, nor would it need to be shipped to NY from CA, it could be grown in NYC.

 

[Bubba700]

yes there would be initial costs...just like buying land. but isn't it feasible that having "perfect" weather, etc would allow for max yields? Wouldn't the lack of hail insurance, etc help to offset the initail costs? by growing year round in a "perfect" field wouldn't costs drop since no longer would sweet corn, etc be a seasonal crop, nor would it need to be shipped to NY from CA, it could be grown in NYC.

Those are good points and they would most likely drop the cost a bit, but at the same time those types of opperations take big $ for grow lights, water pumps, more fertilizers, the increase in electricity in order to produce. All of that would still drive the price through the roof. With capitalism if it was a viable option I think we would be seeing some ambitious people trying it out on a small scale. But personally looking at the costs I don't think there is a economical way to do what you're proposing. Good to see at least some one looking out side the common methods for a better option X. The cost of production are just too high IMO.

 

[xrated]

Excellent point on the electricity(course in the new better world it would be wind and cheap) although perhaps in the future solar would be a viable option for an indoor field.

Not sure on fertilizer. I'm no farmer, but I sure do see tons of Anhydrous tanks going to the fields each summer. I imagine lots of that gets leeched and washed out of the ground. If it were indoors, wouldn't it be easier to control the levels in the soil? Also wouldn't that decrease the worries about all that fert washing into the watersheds? I know each year there is big talk about the "deadzone" in the Mississippi Delta that some say is caused by fert use...

 

[Wolfrun]

Lots of history in that San Joaquin Valley. RG Le Tourneau got his start there building the machines that built those canals, then the Hoover dam, and then all the machinery credited to enabling us to move across Germany building one airfield after another in WWII. RG recieved a Congressional Medal of Honer after the war. Lots of Le Tourneau equipt. still around today.

There's a good book called "Mover of Men and Mountains" that tells the stories.

I ran a couple of Le Tourneau scrapers, one a Westinghouse Le Tourneau. When i think about it, almost 50 years ago. How time flies. Dip s**It Bo's term will be over before we know it.

 

[Ollie]

Excellent point on the electricity(course in the new better world it would be wind and cheap) although perhaps in the future solar would be a viable option for an indoor field.

Not sure on fertilizer. I'm no farmer, but I sure do see tons of Anhydrous tanks going to the fields each summer. I imagine lots of that gets leeched and washed out of the ground. If it were indoors, wouldn't it be easier to control the levels in the soil? Also wouldn't that decrease the worries about all that fert washing into the watersheds? I know each year there is big talk about the "deadzone" in the Mississippi Delta that some say is caused by fert use...

There are couple things you need to think about when you say the farmers should move to wetter ground. The ground they are on is some of the most fertile in the world. To move anywhere you would have to have half again more land to grow the same amount of food.

Also, moving the operations indoors sounds good, but it's just not possible.
I haven't seen any 500,000 acre buildings lately, even in detroit. Now if you moved the operation indoors you could get even better growing conditions than they currently have. So lets say you can get that down to 350,000 acres of indoor space. Still, not really possible.

There is another aspect to this other than electricity.
Maintenance. Imagine how much it would cost to keep those buildings in good repair, the plumbing, piping, sprayers, the buildings themselves, the list goes on and on and on. Don't see too many doors that need repair in the fields.

Put it this way.
If they could move the operations indoors and make money doing it, there would already be indoor growers. Well actually there are. They are organic farmers. Priced out there stuff lately?? 2 - 3 times standard cost.

Heres some of the transcript from the show
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,552081,00.html

 

[Burndown1]

I hate enviromentalists. Wow that was a big word. I usually do the four or five letter words. Things go in cycles. someday the enviros will be farmers, they will be hunters, when they get hungry.

 

[xrated]

Ollie you say it's fertile ground...I'm not sure I don't live there. I do live in farm country MN and it's supposed to be great fertile ground as well. My question is, if that's so why do you see so much anhydrous, etc? I'm not hating on farmers here, I love my corn on the cob...

Good points on acres, but think, indoors you wouldn't be limited to ground level. With the right setup you could utilize all that air space in the building.

I'll read that link after I wake up for the afternoon.

 

[Tree Boss]

Living right in the middle of hay fields and working on a dairy all though high school and being involved in FFA while I was in high school I can not see why anyone would want to put a farm under a roof, with all due respect God gave us millions of acres of perfect land, how in the hell does a little fish stop a farmer from utilizing it?? I can see your point but it's a hell of a lot easier to say piss on the environmentalists life can't stop for minnows, grow them in fish hatcheries and leave the farmers alone.

Every person who fought for this should not be allowed to eat anything unless they grew it them selves. If they die from starvation, sweet that's our way of culling the herd

 

[Ollie]

They have provisions within the Endangered Species Act that would allow them to just let the minnow go bye bye.
The enviro's won't allow that.
The smelt is more important than people.

And it would be WAY easier to grow the smelt indoors and in much greater numbers than currently found in the wild than it would be to move the farming indoors.

 

[sledmanhof]

Ollie you say it's fertile ground...I'm not sure I don't live there. I do live in farm country MN and it's supposed to be great fertile ground as well. My question is, if that's so why do you see so much anhydrous, etc? I'm not hating on farmers here, I love my corn on the cob...

i live and work on a farm and the reason why they need the anhydrous and other fertilizers is because no ground can sustain the amount of nutrients possible to grow high yielding healthy crops year after year. the soil just gets wore out and we need to help replentish some of it.

my take on this is fawk the enviros and minnows because a hobby, which is what the fishing is, should not and cannot get higher priority over a lifestyle and industry. theres prime example of this all over the country. im in the pork industry and we deal with these types of thing more than anyone will ever hear about and its a never ending thing these days. you just have to stand up for what you think is right anymore.

 

[xrated]

, with all due respect God gave us millions of acres of perfect land, how in the hell does a little fish stop a farmer from utilizing it??

Course God gave us millions or acres of water and fish as well....

 

[xrated]

i live and work on a farm and the reason why they need the anhydrous and other fertilizers is because no ground can sustain the amount of nutrients possible to grow high yielding healthy crops year after year. the soil just gets wore out and we need to help replentish some of it.

.

thanks for the info. I'd say that could be a whole other topic right there.

I'll read the link Ollie posted tonight and hopefully have some more to throw into the pot.

 

[mn2mtns]

Xrated...You would have already wore out your welcome if you were riding with my crew. We ARE farmers. You can not substitute natural sunlight and real world weather with grow lights and hydroponics or other methods. Have you ever noticed a difference between home garden raised vegetables versus greenhouse raised. The flavor and appearance are just not as good in the indoor raised. Being from MN you should certainly understand that if you want a tomato in January, it surely isn't going to be raised here. Stop thinking like a greeny envirogeek. In these hard times I can't imagine the logic involved in destroying an economy of this scale. Maybe these are the sort of terrorist attacks we were warned would be coming. The terrorists are disguising themselves as environmentalists and recruiting the simple minded sheep to do their dirty work for them.

 

[xrated]

Xrated...You would have already wore out your welcome if you were riding with my crew. We ARE farmers. You can not substitute natural sunlight and real world weather with grow lights and hydroponics or other methods. Have you ever noticed a difference between home garden raised vegetables versus greenhouse raised. The flavor and appearance are just not as good in the indoor raised. Being from MN you should certainly understand that if you want a tomato in January, it surely isn't going to be raised here. Stop thinking like a greeny envirogeek. In these hard times I can't imagine the logic involved in destroying an economy of this scale. Maybe these are the sort of terrorist attacks we were warned would be coming. The terrorists are disguising themselves as environmentalists and recruiting the simple minded sheep to do their dirty work for them.

easy chief, I was just spit balling and having discussion...I don't know where I came out and hated on farmers.

Also I was wondering if there would be a difference in taste, etc in outdoor vs indoor growing. I was thinking more how different soils, etc can impact taste(more a hops reference due to my beer likes).

As for veggies, I'm gonna take your word on it, I don't much care to eat them.

Yeah my spit balling had draw backs, but I don't see how it would be a negative deal to be able to control moisture, etc for a crop. I don't know much about farming but I know it's rare to have the perfect moisture needed for maximum crop yeild.

Like I said I was just spit balling and going for some discussion to pass the time at work.

 

[BigJake]

I read that type of fish isn't even native to that part of California, so WTF??

 

[Ollie]

Heres the sad but true part of this whole thing.
When farmers sell their land or can no longer farm their land for what ever reason, what do they do with the land??

They sell it.
Who buys it?
Developers.
What do they do with it?
They build houses and lay down roads.
Now if your a greenie, wouldn't it be better to have farm land than urban sprall?

 

[weetee]

City folk.

 

[Tree Boss]

Heres the sad but true part of this whole thing.
When farmers sell their land or can no longer farm their land for what ever reason, what do they do with the land??

They sell it.
Who buys it?
Developers.
What do they do with it?
They build houses and lay down roads.
Now if your a greenie, wouldn't it be better to have farm land than urban sprall?

I agree Ollie. I don't know why people think that we need to put a house on every green blade of grass.