HAM Radio Repeater Construction?

[MtnDoo]

SW Folks,

Does anyone have experience building and operating HAM radio repeaters?
If so, please PM me or post some good resources.

I have several HT and mobile HAM's but I'm ready to jump in, get licensed and build a repeater here in Crested Butte.

We all bring beacons/shovels/probes, but the missing part of the survival equasion just sadly played out just north of Silverthorne, Co tonite.

With a GPS and a HAM, you know where you are, and can tell someone.

I've been thinking of this for a while, but now I want to move forward and build a repeater to serve the backcountry surrounding CB. I know I can get space and power high on the ski area, but need someone with experience to provide some direction as to what we need to build this with.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

MtnDoo

corey@bryndal.com

 

[Q-BALL]

He's not logged in presently,but Snowizard here on the forums is into ham and seems to know his stuff,i remember him posting pics of a facility he hangs at..i'm sure he'll reply to you when he logs on,or pm him.

 

[Snowizard]

I'm here!

He's not logged in presently,but Snowizard here on the forums is into ham and seems to know his stuff,i remember him posting pics of a facility he hangs at..i'm sure he'll reply to you when he logs on,or pm him.

As if I had a life other than Snowest. LOL. Thanks for the complement guys.

MtnDoo, yes it's possible to accomplish your goal. First you need a site at a good elevation, and looks like you may have that obstacle covered. Electrical usage is minimal, so the "land-lord" need not worry about that.

Of course all system users MUST have ham radio licenses. Not difficult to get anymore, and Morse Code not required. A 50 question test and some paperwork does it.Ham (Amateur) Radio does not operate under the same FCC rules as unlicensed family radio.

Now as far as what you could do..... say for example you use a APRS-ready(Packet Data) hand held radio such as the new Kenwood, you could hook your GPS to the handheld and have the equivalent of a Garmin "Rhino on steroids). GPS data thru the repeater could cover an enormous area compared to Rhino-to-Rhino direct.

Also, plain voice communication thru the repeater, covering a wide area perhaps a hundred square miles or more.

It is also possible to connect the repeater site to land-line telephone, technique called "auto-patch". This might be considered if cell phone coverage is spotty.
A hand held radio with a number key-pad ( most come equipped this way) is all that's needed to make a phone call thru the repeater.

Next thing to consider is the budget. Most of this is doable as plug-and-play, but someone with a RF technical background would be highly desirable doing set-up, adjustments, and the inevitable de-bugging. LOL.

You need a repeater/base station set-up. Commercial grade is excellent but VERY expensive on a ham radio budget. Kenwood and ICOM both make packages ham repeaters.
Maybe you could convince the county or S&R to kick in a contribution. Systems like this are valuable other seasons of the year, such as storm watch in summer months, or when a tree hugger hiker gets lost in summer.

A base station antenna and coaxial cable for the repeater,mounting brackets, and a "duplexer", if not included in the repeater itself will be needed, that allows the receiver and transmitter to operate simultaneously to be able to "repeat."

An important consideration is what frequency spectrum to use VHF or UHF. And there will be a volunteer organization in your state that will coordinate your site with a specific channel frequency. All your operation will be on this frequency from your site. You can't just occupy any old channel, plus the repeater, duplexer, and antenna all have to be set up on this channel frequency.

Someone in a ham radio club in your area will know how to contact the frequency coordinator, or maybe they have a website.

Getting long here, hard to write about every detail here, and I'm not the best typist either.
I will PM you my cell phone nnumber. Easier for you to call me with questions.

'wiz/Roger, W0WUG. ( W-zero-WUG )

 

[Q-BALL]

thanks for the backup.ALWAYS give credit,where credits due... I could think of no one better!

 

[knee deep in it]

I used to work for General Electric Mobile Communications. We used to get ham radio guys looking for free parts all the time. Check with a few local shops to see if they will sponsor some equipmet, they may have a duplexer or some old radios that can be tied together with a repeater baord to make a repeater.

BTW, aren't the radios a little big for sled operations? Wouldn't a glmrs band system be better as lots of people have those portatble radios allready.

 

[Snowizard]

I used to work for General Electric Mobile Communications. We used to get ham radio guys looking for free parts all the time. Check with a few local shops to see if they will sponsor some equipmet, they may have a duplexer or some old radios that can be tied together with a repeater baord to make a repeater.

BTW, aren't the radios a little big for sled operations? Wouldn't a glmrs band system be better as lots of people have those portatble radios allready.

"Knees" I used to have a GE dealership back in the 70's. Sold it in 1980. Yeah its possible to use commercial equipment, but I don't know what level of technical expertice M.Doo and his associates have, and I was trying to keep things as simple as possible.
Depending on the age and model of commercial radio, Motorola, GE, Johnson, etc, many component parts are no longer available, should repairs be needed. I have a "bone pile" of Micor's, MASTR II's, MVP's, Exec II's, etc for parts radio's.
Seems to me for a S&R system better reliability is in order.
Most newer equiment is microprocessor/software driven, instead of discrete parts.

GMRS band operation , is limited to 5 Watts power, and only a 20ft above ground level antenna height. A "repeater" ( called a "Mobile Relay" in FCC speak) is allowed but only with height and power limitations.

FRS walkie-talkies are simplex only. Walkie-to-walkie only no repeaters, and limited to 1/2 watt power.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=service_home&id=general_mobile

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=service_bandplan&id=general_mobile

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=operations&id=general_mobile

 

[deadcat]

MTNDOO,
PM snowdrew00. He has the perfect location to mount the repeater you are planning. It is big, yellow, tall, and has a view of the entire valley.

He or his pops may be interesting in helping.

 

[rkymtnman]

Frequency coordinator for Colorado is Doug Sharp, K2AD out of Denver.

Count me in for any help I can provide Corey - I need a good reason to get back in to Ham and I have some equipment that may be useful.

Jeff - kc0cpe

 

[Snowizard]

Frequency coordinator for Colorado is Doug Sharp, K2AD out of Denver.

Count me in for any help I can provide Corey - I need a good reason to get back in to Ham and I have some equipment that may be useful.

Jeff - kc0cpe

RKY
I emailed the same info regarding the coordinator to Corey earlier today. But thanks for your interest. Yes, the first step before any hardware is bought is to get an official "oakie-doakie" from the coordinator, and a channel frequency pair assigned.

73's 'WUG

 

[MtnDoo]

Fellas - thanks for all of the responses!

I'll be contacting each of you this evening.
It sounds like we may have some good resources available to us - and possible locations too!

Rgds,

MtnDoo

 

[Ex-Member]

May want to call or email Colorado Repeater Association... don't know if there's interest there in constructing a repeater out there or not, but it can't hurt to ask. Snowizard hit on most everything I thought of... would highly suggest a backup power system on the mountain (Generator or battery array). Real good technical knowledge in the CRA group though. Let me know if oyu want any help there

73 de K7AIH

 

[Veedy]

I know this sounds cheap and dirty, but a buddy of mine who is a senior radio technician built a backcountry repeater for very little money. He had a small metal box about 24" tall and 12" deep, that he had packed with insulation. Inside the box he put a FRS radio which was powered with an external gel cell that was charged with a small solar panel. Of course we know that FRS is simplex so what he developed was a system that stores your transmission and then repeats it on the same channel after you key off. He had a small amp with a large antenna. The whole rig was very small and was mounted mountaintop but in an accessable location. It worked great, but was limited to FRS users.
I think VHF systems with duplex channels are still the way to go. There are several in our area. Most are used by heli ski operations and maitained by them as well.
Check to see if there is any mountainside repeaters in your area before you put in the dough. Even if you build a repeater you still need someone on the other end to monitor the activity in case of emergency. Contact your local S&R team to see if there are any funds available.

 

[Snowizard]

Veedy,
Interesting backwoods engineering. Not knocking it but.... Actually commercial versions of a "store-and-foreward" simplex repeater accessory box have been around since the early '90's.
One can be made with an inexpensive digital pocket recorder, and some home made control circuitry. These have systems have never been real popular.

I don't know what the communication regulations are in Canada, but I would not want to have to explain this contraption to the FCC in the USA. Most definitely a hefty fine and equipment confiscation would result. Never mind the mission the device may be accomplishing.

FRS radio's are not allowed to be modified, including removing the antenna, boosting transmitter power output, among other criteria. Cheap radio's are cheap for a reason. Frequency stability tolerance, transmitter harmonic and spurious radiation filtering.

Now I might do something like this for myself, w/o telling anybody else, but in a high profile operation, the fecal matter will hit the air handling equipment eventually with the Fed's if it's on "family radio" channels.

This type of "repeater" system could, however, be used on some licensed simplex commercial frequencies, not GMRS or FRS frequencies.

 

[Ex-Member]

Talked to the CRA club president on my ride home today... CRA's more interested in front range than covering the entire state... He did mention that "Colorado Connection" might be interested, their site is

FRS frequencies are limited to 1/2W ERP, no repeaters, permanently-attached antenna. The radios also need to be type-certified for legal use. GMRS does allow for 5W on the shared FRS/GMRS freqs (1-8) and repeaters on the GMRS-only freqs (usually 15-22 on those "22-channel" radios). But, you have to have a GMRS license to use the high power on shared and any of the GMRS freqs.