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Good article by Newt Gengrich on energy policy

Dogmeat said:
http://newt.org/tabid/102/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3435/Drill-Here-Drill-Now-Pay-Less.aspx

It amazes me so many people can't make the connection that a big part of why gas prices are so high is because we aren't producing jack domestically.

I mean how freaking blind are these people?
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. I've always like Newty's philosophy. If you want cheap potatoes grow more potatos and flood the market with potatos. If you want cheap apples do the same thing grow more apples and flood the market with apples. Americans aren't held hostage to high oil prices because of a greed or lust for oil, they're held hostage because they don't do their homework on supply side economics. Instead they accept with blind faith that oil is is evil and further exploration for it is wrong and destructive. All the while they offer NO acceptable alternatives.

I'm big on coal for power production. It's cheap, easy to get, can be made to produce near 0 emmisions, we have 250 years worth and it's wayyy cheap to bring online. We need explore and obtain a butt load of oil here all the while continue to find better ways to fuel our transportation needs and move towards the future. The "America's best days are behind us" is soo damn depressing. I've never believed it.
 
As with land managment, it's not about being blind or smart.

It's about control.
I get the alert warnings put out by a couple different enviro groups so as to keep on eye on what they are doing.

I got one just this morning telling all it's members to call their congressmen and tell them to hold the line on drilling. They keep pushing conservation. They realize that there is going to be huge pressure to open up drilling and they are already starting to fight any increase in drilling or any new refineries.
 
Ollie said:
As with land managment, it's not about being blind or smart.

It's about control.
I get the alert warnings put out by a couple different enviro groups so as to keep on eye on what they are doing.

I got one just this morning telling all it's members to call their congressmen and tell them to hold the line on drilling. They keep pushing conservation. They realize that there is going to be huge pressure to open up drilling and they are already starting to fight any increase in drilling or any new refineries.
Click to expand...

It's good to have spies on our side :):beer;
 
Ollie said:
As with land managment, it's not about being blind or smart.

It's about control.
I get the alert warnings put out by a couple different enviro groups so as to keep on eye on what they are doing.

I got one just this morning telling all it's members to call their congressmen and tell them to hold the line on drilling. They keep pushing conservation. They realize that there is going to be huge pressure to open up drilling and they are already starting to fight any increase in drilling or any new refineries.
Click to expand...

Let's just hang those bastages with the high prices and let the normal people pay what's right.( I know it's not possible but you can only dream)
 
When gas and diesel reaches 6.00 a gallon or so maybe the people will force congress to let us drill in our own country. I mean Anwar, the gulf of Mexico and off shore, east and west. Private enterprise built this country not the government. We ought to know by now, government doesn't do any thing very well.
Click to expand...

I'm all for expanding oil drilling in our own country, heck even in ANWAR if it actually drops our prices..... And the govt and the oil companies can guarantee it.

It is not a right vs. left thing either... I'm a sledder and boater and hydrocarbon user extraordinaire.

The private enterprise of the Oil Companies is what is putting it directly in your rear.

If ANWAR and offshore oil in our own country is expanded we WILL NOT see lower prices at the pump....

Fist off the infrastructure of drilling and transport/distribution will take years to do. So the direct effect in the near future will not be felt at our gas pump... the oil companies will use the cost of development and drilling to justify keeping the cost of this domestic oil as high as the oil we currently get.

Second, this same oil will enter the global market and THE OIL FROM ANWAR WILL COST THE SAME AS OPEC OIL. The major oil companies, that have been making a record KILLING with the price of gas for them, are the ones cashing in on this as are the pork barrel politicians (both Demo and Republican).

PROOF in the punch... if the per barrel price of oil has been going up... why then also have the profits been going up for the oil companies. For example, if you sold apple pies, and it cost you $1 in materials to make the pies and you sold them at supermarkets across the country for $3... If the cost of your ingredients went up 50 cents and you used that excuse to sell your pies now for $5 you are now making out like a bandit. But since people don’t have to have the pies, you would not make more profits; people would stop buying pies..

Well, our country is addicted to gas and other fuels for our trucks, cars, snowmobiles, heating, transportation etc.... It is not an option to turn our heat or hot water off, use our farm tractors less, service our cattle or drive less miles in our commute (when our public transportation is one of the worst in the world). That we don’t even have fuel efficient car choices at the dealerships (that is compared to the remainder of the free world). Heck, it is part of our culture from "flower sniffin hippies" to truck drivin cowboys to use gas and oil products...we are hooked...

If you want cheap potatoes grow more potatos and flood the market with potatos. If you want cheap apples do the same thing grow more apples and flood the market with apples. Americans aren't held hostage to high oil prices because of a greed or lust for oil, they're held hostage because they don't do their homework on supply side economics. Instead they accept with blind faith that oil is is evil and further exploration for it is wrong and destructive. All the while they offer NO acceptable alternatives
Click to expand...

Well if we combine the future potential of proposed offshore and ANWAR oil and "flood the market" with our oil... it will be more like a trickle than a flood...unless you are talking about a flood of money for the oil companies, the pork-belly, and the lobbyiests. Putting our domestic oil into the global market, which is what will happen because of the free trade laws in effect that that the corporate structure uses every loophole and tax credit for.

Corporations ARE NOT evil...I mean that sincerly.... they are profit driven... those practices may not be compatible with our way of life in the the future.

The only solution, if you want your gas prices to remain lower, is for the government to regulate the amount of profit that the oil companies can make.

I know this sounds like it goes against the American way, but if our price of gas is not directly tied to national security and economic preservation of our culture, then I don't know what is.

We send our children/husbands/wives off to foreign wars to protect that supply of oil... if that does not DEFINE this as an issue of "National Interest" then I don't know what does...

Ronald Regan stepped in an ended the air traffic controllers strike using emergency powers. The same thing should happen with the price of gas at the pumps... and not by lowering the taxes on it like some of the nut-bag canidates have been proposing.

It's not the Arabs or our lack of drilling in ANWAR that are making our prices of gas high; it's corporate and political greed. WE NEED TO CHANGE THE RULES!!

Our oil companies are so far up the Arabs behinds that you don't know where one starts and the other ends. Our own companies are direct participants in the whole OPEC concern.

This will never happen as the lobbyist for the special interest groups of the oil companies have too much of a strong hold on the feds, the states and the S.E.C. to ever allow that to happen.

Get used to the price of Oil being high because Wall Street, the Chicago exchange, the oil companies, our politicians and their lobbyists control the price of all our precious fuel and make huge profits from it all! :mad

Here's a well put comment from a fellow snowester and North Shore Worker:

whittaker727 said:
Here's something that will make you sick. I work in Prudhoe Bay on the North Slope of Alaska. Slope wide yesterday production was just shy of 750,000 barrels of oil
750,000 X $117.00 per barrel = 8,775,000 yesterday!
A brand new bundle of $100 dollar bills (a bundle is a million dollars) is 40" tall
if you stacked yesterdays profits in $100 dollar bills the stack would be 292.5'
That is 7 1/2 feet shy of a football field of $100 dollar bills.
Ask the people in Europe how much their fuel has gone up in the last 5 years...zero~1%
The price of retrieving oil hasn't gone up at all it's about $3.00 per barrel to get it into the pipe line and then at the other end of the line it comes out at $117 per barrel. The Govt. has us by the big hairy ones and they're bending us over their $117 barrel. What do we do? How does a family of three or four with both parents working for a combined total of less than $20 per hr. even afford to get to work let alone pay for life? I feel very fortunate that I have the ability to be able to go out and enjoy the parts of our country that haven't been closed down to protect the caribou, wolves, lynx, split tailed beavers and yeti's. OK, I'm done....for now.
Click to expand...


:
 
Last edited:
Lets talk "Apples to Apples" here...

Can anyone give me an idea of what the non-domestic (NON American domestic) production of oil is in barrels per day?

What is the estimated production of oil from the proposed ANWAR and domestic offshore drilling expansion in barrels per day?

What is the estimated production of oil from the expansion of oil drilling in Northern China (Mongolia and the northern territories of China) in barrels per day?

What percentage of the oil predicted to be produced in these proposed domestic expansion areas would this be of the world oil production and how would that affect the price of oil per barrel when added to the global oil market?
 
mountainhorse said:
Lets talk "Apples to Apples" here...

Can anyone give me an idea of what the non-domestic (NON American domestic) production of oil is in barrels per day?

What is the estimated production of oil from the proposed ANWAR and domestic offshore drilling expansion in barrels per day?

What is the estimated production of oil from the expansion of oil drilling in Northern China (Mongolia and the northern territories of China) in barrels per day?

What percentage of the oil predicted to be produced in these proposed domestic expansion areas would this be of the world oil production and how would that affect the price of oil per barrel when added to the global oil market?
Click to expand...

At this point we're reaping the benefits (laugh) of the last 30 years of primarily Democratic controlled energy policy ... It wasn't until the late 90's after the Republicans had held congress for awhile that there was even a slight increase in domestic production since the early 70's if I remeber right.

At this point, expanding domestic exploration is not going to lower gas prices, had we done this 20, 30 years ago perhaps it would have.

If there is one point I would like to get across to everyone on here is that the same *******s who fight to close our areas to ride on are the same *******s who have railroaded domestic oil and gas exploration into the ground during the course of the 70's and 80's.

The oil companies are not deliberatley ripping people off, and I don't think they ever have been quite honestly. I've said it a thousand times on here, I think it's a major tribute to American enginuity that ExxonMobil does as well as it does in the global market place considering the completley unlevel playing field in the world ... IE, Saudi Aramco (Nationalized Saudi Arabian oil company) completley dwarfs ExxonMobil, yet somehow magically this completley fails to be mentioned in the press ... Gazprom in Russia is the same way.

If you look at what the big 5 are doing with the so-called "record profits" ... they're re-investing a portion of that in new exploration, they always have ... it must be that way for them to stay competitive ... however, they're also buying back as much of their own stock as they can. I think eventually they all are trying to become private companies again. What this means as far as futures trading and the price of a barrel of oil, I don't know, but the whole "the oil companies are price gouging" thing is getting so phenomenally old hat it's really at the point I find it rediculous ... It's less the oil companies as it is everything else in the picture, and the US government is as much to blame, if not moreso than any other entity out there.

As far as supply and demand goes, according to this months JPT world demand was ~85 million BPD, supply was ~84 million BPD ... World demand has steadily risen for the last 10 years pretty regularly, and I don't see that leveling off ...

The bottom line is, no, you're never going to see "$1.50 gas" again, but if we don't do something real freaking' soon, the whole $10.00 a gallon gas is gonna be here a lot sooner than any of us want, and expanding domestic exploration is gonna do one hell of a lot more good for us all than harm.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anwar past both house and senate in 1995 only to get vetoed by Bill Clinton. If it had been signed we would be using that oil right now.

May 19, 2008
The Good and Bad Approaches to Affordable Energy Policy
by Ben Lieberman
WebMemo #1927
Good energy policy is easy to distinguish from bad energy policy: Good policy leads to more supplies of affordable energy, and bad policy leads to less. The recently rejected American Energy Production Act of 2008 (S. 2958), sponsored by Senator Mitch McConnell R–KY), sought for the most part to make it easier to access domestic energy supplies by undoing past constraints, including restrictions on domestic oil production.

On the other hand, the upcoming Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 (S. 2991), sponsored by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D–NV), repeats the mistakes of the past by adding constraints that will discourage domestic energy supplies, including:

Raising taxes on domestic oil production,
Picking winners and losers among energy alternatives, and
Imposing price-gouging legislation.
S. 2958 was a pro-energy bill, worth pursuing again, while S. 2991 is an anti-energy bill that will only add to already high energy costs.

Fewer Restrictions on Domestic Oil Production

America needs fewer restrictions on domestic oil drilling. The U.S. remains the only oil-producing nation that has placed a substantial amount of its energy potential off-limits. This includes a few thousand acres of Alaska's 19.6 million-acre Arctic National Wildlife Re***e (ANWR). This small proportion of ANWR is believed to contain 10 billion barrels of oil—an amount equivalent to 15 years of imports from Saudi Arabia.[1] Even more oil is located in other restricted areas throughout the United States, and more still in the 85 percent of America's Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) that is off-limits.[2]

Environmental concerns militate against drilling, but improvements in technology have greatly reduced both the above-ground footprint and the risk of offshore spills.[3] Any new drilling would be subject to the world's strictest standards.

The American Energy Production Act allows for leasing of ANWR. This would bring more domestic oil online several years from now and generate hundreds of billions of dollars in revenues. This bill would also allow leasing in most of the OCS, provided the relevant state governor approves. Each participating state would get a share of the leasing revenues generated by energy production. This would provide more oil and more natural gas, which is also badly needed.

Regrettably, the Consumer-First Energy Act contains no such provisions. In effect, it is an energy bill without any energy in it.

Avoiding the Mistakes of the Past

The Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 might as well be called the Repeat-Every-Energy-Policy-Blunder-from-1970-to-1980 Act. Among other mistakes from that period, the government increased the taxes levied on domestic oil producers. The result of this windfall profit tax, according to the Congressional Research Service, was "reduced domestic oil production from between 3 and 6 percent, and increased oil imports from between 8 and 16 percent. This made the U.S. more dependent upon imported oil."[4]

There were also many attempts by the federal government to pick winners and losers among emerging energy alternatives—synthetic fuels, solar, ethanol, and others—and tilt the playing field in their favor. Virtually all turned out to be big disappointments.

The government also instituted price controls, which served only to create the gas shortages that remain one of the unpleasant memories from that era. Yes, price controls meant that consumers could get cheaper gas—but only after waiting in long gas lines and only if stations didn't run out first.

One might think that no rational energy policy maker should want to repeat the mistakes of that era, yet the Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 tries to do just that. There are new proposals to increase the effective tax rates on U.S. oil companies, both by bringing back a windfall profit tax and by repealing certain deductions against income for expenses related to domestic oil drilling. As happened before, this will discourage domestic oil drilling, which is the exact opposite of what an energy bill should be doing.

The bill allows oil companies to avoid the windfall profits tax if they invest in congressionally approved alternative energy sources. Though renewable energy sources should be a part of America's energy mix, they should be pursued by the private sector without direction from Washington. The federal government has never been adept at picking winners and losers among such alternatives, as the burgeoning problems with the corn ethanol mandate attest.

There are also price-gouging measures, which act the same way that price controls act by trying high prices illegal. Like tax hikes, such measures discourage badly needed supply increases and thus end up doing more harm than good. Even the Federal Trade Commission, the agency charged with implementing this scheme, has warned that it is a bad idea.[5]

Conclusion

It is no coincidence that, despite the massive 2005 and 2007 energy bills, the price at the pump continues upward. Both measures did little to create new oil and gasoline supplies or to untangle the red tape afflicting existing supplies.

America needs fewer laws, regulations, taxes, and other government-created impediments to a more affordable gasoline supply. Most of the provisions in the American Energy Production Act are intended to liberate Americans from that morass. In contrast, the Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 contains just about everything we don't want or need.

Ben Lieberman is Senior Policy Analyst for Energy and Environment in the Thomas A. Roe Institute for Economic Policy
 
I have a question. Suppose that tomorrow they are able to drill anywhere they want and find huge amounts of oil, all here in the US. Since we have already shown that we will not cut our fuel usage as prices approach $4/gallon for regular, why on earth would the oil companies be inclined to charge much less than this in the future???
I can see a huge impact on many aspects of our economy is it goes much higher, but why would the oil companies (if flooded with cheap oil) just kick back and charge $1.95 /gallon when they know we will use just as much at $3.50?
 
winter brew said:
I have a question. Suppose that tomorrow they are able to drill anywhere they want and find huge amounts of oil, all here in the US. Since we have already shown that we will not cut our fuel usage as prices approach $4/gallon for regular, why on earth would the oil companies be inclined to charge much less than this in the future???
I can see a huge impact on many aspects of our economy is it goes much higher, but why would the oil companies (if flooded with cheap oil) just kick back and charge $1.95 /gallon when they know we will use just as much at $3.50?
Click to expand...

Contrary to popular belief, most of the people who are oil company execs got there by being highly intelligent and motivated. I don't know of anyone that I've ever met in this industry, oil exec or not, and yes I've met a few, that I honestly believt truly wants to **** people over for their own benefit. They want to make as much mone as they can quite obviously, but who doesn't? It's called capitalism. I think we're seeing those same US oil companies use these profits to "take back over" their own companies so to speak ... I know a lot of them are buying back their own stock.

With that said, at this point in time, all anyone can really do is damage control and find viable alternative energy sources. The chances of ever seeing significantly lower gas prices are very slim IMO .... Right now it's not about lowering gas prices it's about keeping them from exploding any further.
 
Dogmeat said:
With that said, at this point in time, all anyone can really do is damage control and find viable alternative energy sources. The chances of ever seeing significantly lower gas prices are very slim IMO .... Right now it's not about lowering gas prices it's about keeping them from exploding any further.
Click to expand...

Not really.
The whole "we will be happy if you just stop raising them any further" thing is a scam.

Gas prices go way up, then come down a few cents and everyone is happy. No one ever asks a simply qustion.

Why haven't the prices come back down??

Remember when oil hit 60 dollars a barrel and gas hit 3 dollars a gallon, yet now oil is 130 dollars a barrel and gas is 4 dollars a gallon.
Simple math, if oil is 60 dollars a barrel and gas is 3 dollars, then when oil hit 130 a barrel why isn't gas 6.50 a gallon??

Simple, they wanted to push up the price of gas and make people like it. They did it didn't they?
So now when oil hit 80 dollars a barrel (which is where I expect it to be in a year), you will see gas at 3.50 a gallon and people will be happy.
 
Wow.
When even the wackos agree with us, you know we are correct.
Gees, we agree with liberal wacko's.

The good news is, when the liberals agree then the press will start reporting the truth and things will start to change. I don't think you will see a full recession. You may see stagnation, but not a recession.
 
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