I just got my 2016 TS ST and installed it on my 06" KTM 450 exc. I'm having a heck of a time getting the bike to handle like all the other bikes i've riden. I have too much ski pressure (i think) and the bike darts all over the place on the road. I've riden my borthers 2010 CRF450r and buddys 2004 KTM 525 and they feel like i could ride all day and not get tired! The steering feels lighter and waaay more predictable. I've softened my rear skid shock and adjusted my strut rod as far as i can before the airbox touches the TS. This made it better but still not anywhere close to what i want. Yesterday all our bikes were siting side by side and i noticed my forks stuck out way further than the other snowbikes. Looked like a chopper compared to the rest! So the research began and i'm reading i may need to go from my 20mm to and 18mm offset on the triple clamps?
Fork Angle on 2006 KTM 450exc ski pressure Timbersled
- Thread starter captain dunbar
- Start date
I have my kit on a CR500 steel frame and it is a major chopper but handles well everywhere. I didn't read that you did anything with your fork springs, they need to be a lot stiffer than stock, or there is some sort of air thing I think you can put on there but either way you need more spring rate in the front.
My forks are stock but i did add the AirPro and experimemted with the pressure from 6psi up to 18psi. I did like the feel better at 15psi. It doesnt bottem out but atill feels like the front is heavy. Do you think slidding the ski back toward the engine will help? I'm in the middle setting now on the spindle.
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How big are you?. You may need more front spring on your skid. Let the limiter strap right out all the way if it isn't already. My Cr500 steelie is a full on chopper as well but the ski pressure isn't too bad. It has a huge wheelbase, longer than my sled, but if anything having the ski way out there reduces ski pressure as you create more leverage and lift on the bike with the extra distance. I tend to go against the grain on the spring rate thing. Being a lighter guy I can get away with softer forks which allows the skid to take more load. Adding more rate just makes the front end stick harder in turns which is good for some guys but I prefer the odd bottom out in trade for the smoother and easier handling. JMO.
M5
M5
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I have been playing with the same problem. 04 KTM EXC450 with TS ST. Updated ski with Tripple gold carbide. To date the things that have helped are shorten the strut, move the ski back to 2.5" trailing(ski bolt vs axle bolt. Stiffer fork spring and next I will move fork tubes up in clamps.
I am also wondering the relationship of the bike geometry vs trail manners. Most who ride mine feel it is above par in the snow but worse on the hard pack. I just want to get it working well enough to convince myself that my wife could ride one in most conditions. In fact I am to the point of asking anyone I see if I could ride theirs down the road and buy the best setup for her.
I am also wondering the relationship of the bike geometry vs trail manners. Most who ride mine feel it is above par in the snow but worse on the hard pack. I just want to get it working well enough to convince myself that my wife could ride one in most conditions. In fact I am to the point of asking anyone I see if I could ride theirs down the road and buy the best setup for her.
The way I think of everything when it comes to changes in suspension is to picture it in the extreme. So for instance stiffer fork springs, in the extreme the forks would be a solid tube with no springs at all hence no give which is how I see stiffer fork springs working on the trail. Stiffer springs are great for whoops and drops and as an anti dive measure but I don't believe they help handling on the trail very often. I think the object is to get the skid to take more of the load than the front end does which gives the bike a better balanced lighter steering feel. Obviously you can go in that direction to the extreme as well which would be ski off the snow altogether. Trick is finding the balance which isn't necessarily brand A or brand B of bike or kit.
M5
M5
I have an 04 sx chassis. I'm not sure how the rake compared to yours, but I found moving the ski mountain forward so the front mount holes are used, as well as shimming the back of the mount, made a big difference on my bike.
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Thanks for the help guys. I'm 195lbs. Losening up the rear shock and tightening the center helped alot. I'm at the point where it does bottom out every now and then but feels like a nice soft ride so i think i'm dialed in there. I'll play with sliding the ski foward and back to see if that helps as well. My forks are all the way down (flush with the top of the triple clamp). I'll try raising the forks a bit (lowering the teiple clamp down on the forks) also.
Make sure the rear ski rubber is tight and holding the ski tip up slightly. Also if it's too choppered out you might want to try going back the other way you might not have enough ski pressure. More is not always better some strange things start to happen like the ski tips and leans more in chopper mode also the whole chassis gets twitchy like it's pivoting too much on the front of the track like a unicycle.
how to handle it
1. kits a re made to fit mx bikes, yours is not an mx bike
2. So you need to redrill you ski mount so the ski bolt is at least 1.5 inches back of the front wheel axle when all is setting flat on the garage floor..........quite a few post on this, or go to my post making your 500 xcw handle and look at the pictures.
3. slightly shorter rod will improve trail handling, too far will kill snow traction.........so you have to find the compromise that works for you, if you run the 3rd shock.........pressure is critical, soft is good for trail and poor out in the fluff.
4. If you have the half pipe center ski skeg, no so great on tougher trails, for sure the triple carbide is better on my 13KTMxcw on the trail.
5. If you have the soft white spring in the shocks, too soft for you, if you have that model of shock, the compression and rebound dampening is toooo soft for you.
6 good trail manner is testing and making small improvments and some bikes get there by dumb luck.
Two of my snow bikes have been enduro models with tooo much fork rake for the TS stock settings to work. Quite a bit of handling difference between my riding partners SX and my XCW in setup.
1. kits a re made to fit mx bikes, yours is not an mx bike
2. So you need to redrill you ski mount so the ski bolt is at least 1.5 inches back of the front wheel axle when all is setting flat on the garage floor..........quite a few post on this, or go to my post making your 500 xcw handle and look at the pictures.
3. slightly shorter rod will improve trail handling, too far will kill snow traction.........so you have to find the compromise that works for you, if you run the 3rd shock.........pressure is critical, soft is good for trail and poor out in the fluff.
4. If you have the half pipe center ski skeg, no so great on tougher trails, for sure the triple carbide is better on my 13KTMxcw on the trail.
5. If you have the soft white spring in the shocks, too soft for you, if you have that model of shock, the compression and rebound dampening is toooo soft for you.
6 good trail manner is testing and making small improvments and some bikes get there by dumb luck.
Two of my snow bikes have been enduro models with tooo much fork rake for the TS stock settings to work. Quite a bit of handling difference between my riding partners SX and my XCW in setup.
I forgot to mention I don't think swapping triple clamp offset is going to help. Its such a small change compared to sliding back the ski or re-drilling the spindle mount holes. I tried 20mm and 22mm last year and could not feel the difference on snow yet in the dirt I am very sensitive to the change.
I am very happy with mine handles everywhere, I rode a bunch of ice last weekend, whooped out trail and mashed potatoes. I have my snow bike set up stiff up front but I am a 270lb'er. I have the raw kit and the shocks were stiff as hell on that kit. When I did my forks when I got done putting them together I thought "oh man i'm not sure about this" at the time I was a keyboard cowboy and had never ridden one. When I put them on the bike and jumped up and down on it it was very balanced in movement just like I like my dirtbikes set up. On the 500 chopper with a 120 kit my bike sticks out of the truck further than my buddies KTM with a 137 kit. Not sure about these snowbikes but the usual dirtbike theory is more chopper on the rake, more stable, less rake less stability quicker turning....thus the reason a steel framed CR500 turns like a submarine.
Great information! Just what i was looking for. Thank you. I'll try this tonight when i get home from work.
chopper forks
chopper forks on the snow bike kits equal really foul trail handling.
On enduro bikes like my xcw, out of the box the slow handling raked out forks ( and ditto for my WR450 ), it shoves your ski out and creates a situation where the ski radically wants to follow any rut, grabs wet powder and wants to rip the bars out of your hands.
When you rotate your ski mount pedestal so the bottom of the pedestal begins to move back to the bike adding trail or more caster to the ski mount you will find much more positive turning, less feed back through the bars, you can ride much more relaxed.
Your "enduro fork rake" will work best with about 2-2.5" of ski bolt behind axle. An SX at 1.5 will feel about the same. A 300 exc will feel good about 1.5-2", lighter in the front different power delivery.
Stock bike ?? Heavy rider, a pulled back /high rise bar forcing a further back on the seat position, getting weight of the front the bike will help. Put on a taller fatter seat, don't let it keep you sliding forward or you will be right back to nervous handling.
I took a look at the Yeti ski mods thread, tried it on my 13 XCW TS triple carbide center bar, ground the bar down and flat ahead of the carbide, seems better, so far I have only ridden mush, but I think its another step to better handling. I also rounded the fronts of the outside plastic and smoothed them back to they didn't at least look so grabby.
chopper forks on the snow bike kits equal really foul trail handling.
On enduro bikes like my xcw, out of the box the slow handling raked out forks ( and ditto for my WR450 ), it shoves your ski out and creates a situation where the ski radically wants to follow any rut, grabs wet powder and wants to rip the bars out of your hands.
When you rotate your ski mount pedestal so the bottom of the pedestal begins to move back to the bike adding trail or more caster to the ski mount you will find much more positive turning, less feed back through the bars, you can ride much more relaxed.
Your "enduro fork rake" will work best with about 2-2.5" of ski bolt behind axle. An SX at 1.5 will feel about the same. A 300 exc will feel good about 1.5-2", lighter in the front different power delivery.
Stock bike ?? Heavy rider, a pulled back /high rise bar forcing a further back on the seat position, getting weight of the front the bike will help. Put on a taller fatter seat, don't let it keep you sliding forward or you will be right back to nervous handling.
I took a look at the Yeti ski mods thread, tried it on my 13 XCW TS triple carbide center bar, ground the bar down and flat ahead of the carbide, seems better, so far I have only ridden mush, but I think its another step to better handling. I also rounded the fronts of the outside plastic and smoothed them back to they didn't at least look so grabby.
So are you talking about moving the ski bolt towards the bike like shown in the attached picture?
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YES, you want that ski bolt behind the axle, I set my bike handing with the ski just touching the floor and paralell to the floor, then set a good old fashinoned roofing square on the floor, back edge through center of the axle. Then measure how much back you have the ski bolt. For my xcw I have run 1 - 3" experimenting. 2.-2.5" seems to be as good as it gets for me. To get mine set this far back I had to weld tabs on the back of the ski pedestal to make holes for the pinch bolts.
This has been a funny year snow wise. Not that I'm complaining but pretty much everyday has been a deep pow day. After switching to the Yeti ski I can actually see the ski lifting up on top of the powder vs the TS ski which likes to plow until you are really moving. I hadn't noticed or even thought about how much of a chopper the steel framed 500 is but now it is quite obvious. I think because the chopper forks move the ski out there they actually help lift the bike up in the pow because of the added leverage they generate. Downside is the trail handling flat out sucks and you have an increased turning radius but a fair trade off for me. I really could care less about ripping up the trail WFO I want the bike to work in the deep. Everything about these bikes is a compromise one way or another, its all give and take.
M5
M5
Got some brackets fabed up tonight. It set my ski 2 inches back from the axle shaft. Heading out on Sunday, I'll post results!
bracket set
when we have moved our ski bolt back, we did it by redrilling the clamps above the axle. Your setup might work as well or better..........got to ponder just what happens with your mod , good thinking, let us know how it works.
when we have moved our ski bolt back, we did it by redrilling the clamps above the axle. Your setup might work as well or better..........got to ponder just what happens with your mod , good thinking, let us know how it works.