for all the sportsmen out there
- Thread starter Rixster
- Start date
S
stingray719
Well-known member
WOW,
Where do I start?
How about a coalition of hunters, greenies, and Fish and Game got together and studied Idahos elk. The consensous was housing and people were causing the decline. It appears fish and game wiped there rectum with the results and ignored them.
Wolf numbers are self limiting, always been that way. How do you think these areas had huge numbers of wildlife before we got here? Wolves have cubs in the worst time of the year for them, in Feb March. Good years they thrive bad years cubs die off. NOW, the most important oart of this is wolves stake out an area and stay. Only young wolves that go off to find there own area leave and if the wildlife drops below certain numbers the wolves starve and die off they don't leave.
Alaska had a Caribou die off in the 70s and wolves got blamed. Big wolf hunt from the air killed many of them, and without them to take out the sick disease swept through the Caribou with very serious effects. Look it up and know Alaska will never do that agin.
Idaho, now you are talking my home state. How many of you actually know much about Elk? Not about hunting but actually about them? First off Elks have a calving groung they go to. Screw it up or build a house nereby no more Elk in that region....once again look it up. And while there, take a look at the FORMER calving grounds in North Central Idaho especially near the primitive area. Houses you say? Hmmm.....any Elk calves in those houses?
Colorado learned about Elk and we have HUGE heards here. If you live here notice when you leave Woodland Park headed to Cripple Creek the large area on the right with no houses? That is an Elk migration route that is protected, not like in Idaho where any Californian with alot of money can plant a house...even some in the primitive area.
More on Idaho. As a kid I remember the South Hills in Idaho. Very small area with HUGE numbers of deer. Fish and Game said there were too many Cougars and issued permits to kill. And kill they did. Within 3 years after that hunt disease swept through the herds and the deer they were ALL gone....EVERY ONE. My brother tells me 15 to 20 years later they trickled back in and have some numbers now. Don't believe me? Ask any long term residents of southern Idaho.
Know why dogs bite you if you are scared? Its part of the Wolf heritage left in them. You see, in the wild a healthy prey animal has little fear of a Wolf. A sick or old weak animal knows he is prey and shows much fear which triggers a Wolf attack. Dogs are too far removed from the Wolf to know this but enough is left over to trigger an attack on those scared. WHy do I say this? Wolves are not "Super Hunters" if so there would be NO wildlife. They are part of a balance to keep herds HEALTHY (see Alaskas experiment in above paragraph). Elk is almost last on there hunting list as healthy Elk kill wolves rather easily. (your dog too for those rednecks that think it cute to let large dogs roam free in Elk country)
Now, on to the part few will believe. Wolves are ANYWHERE large numbers of large prey animals exist. They were not hunted out of existence here in America long ago although there numbers were sure decimated. There demise came along with the prey animals hunters killed. No large herds no Wolves.
Wolves have ALWAYS been in central Idaho in what you know as the primitive area. Before the Wolf reintroduction a couple sued Idaho Fish and Game to release documentation proving it. Just cause you don't see them does not mean they are not there.
Case in point, the Wolf killed on I-70 IN Denver. Go you one better, I have twice seen Wolves where I snowmobile, one white and one sable. Of course I am not going to say where or some redneck with an ego will try to kill them. Wolves are ANYWHERE large game herds are and nowhere else.
And yes, I am an expert on Wolves. Intelligent questions will be answered. Ignorance will not as I have found too many rednecks have the "don't confuse me with facts my mind is made up" syndrome.
Where do I start?
How about a coalition of hunters, greenies, and Fish and Game got together and studied Idahos elk. The consensous was housing and people were causing the decline. It appears fish and game wiped there rectum with the results and ignored them.
Wolf numbers are self limiting, always been that way. How do you think these areas had huge numbers of wildlife before we got here? Wolves have cubs in the worst time of the year for them, in Feb March. Good years they thrive bad years cubs die off. NOW, the most important oart of this is wolves stake out an area and stay. Only young wolves that go off to find there own area leave and if the wildlife drops below certain numbers the wolves starve and die off they don't leave.
Alaska had a Caribou die off in the 70s and wolves got blamed. Big wolf hunt from the air killed many of them, and without them to take out the sick disease swept through the Caribou with very serious effects. Look it up and know Alaska will never do that agin.
Idaho, now you are talking my home state. How many of you actually know much about Elk? Not about hunting but actually about them? First off Elks have a calving groung they go to. Screw it up or build a house nereby no more Elk in that region....once again look it up. And while there, take a look at the FORMER calving grounds in North Central Idaho especially near the primitive area. Houses you say? Hmmm.....any Elk calves in those houses?
Colorado learned about Elk and we have HUGE heards here. If you live here notice when you leave Woodland Park headed to Cripple Creek the large area on the right with no houses? That is an Elk migration route that is protected, not like in Idaho where any Californian with alot of money can plant a house...even some in the primitive area.More on Idaho. As a kid I remember the South Hills in Idaho. Very small area with HUGE numbers of deer. Fish and Game said there were too many Cougars and issued permits to kill. And kill they did. Within 3 years after that hunt disease swept through the herds and the deer they were ALL gone....EVERY ONE. My brother tells me 15 to 20 years later they trickled back in and have some numbers now. Don't believe me? Ask any long term residents of southern Idaho.
Know why dogs bite you if you are scared? Its part of the Wolf heritage left in them. You see, in the wild a healthy prey animal has little fear of a Wolf. A sick or old weak animal knows he is prey and shows much fear which triggers a Wolf attack. Dogs are too far removed from the Wolf to know this but enough is left over to trigger an attack on those scared. WHy do I say this? Wolves are not "Super Hunters" if so there would be NO wildlife. They are part of a balance to keep herds HEALTHY (see Alaskas experiment in above paragraph). Elk is almost last on there hunting list as healthy Elk kill wolves rather easily. (your dog too for those rednecks that think it cute to let large dogs roam free in Elk country)
Now, on to the part few will believe. Wolves are ANYWHERE large numbers of large prey animals exist. They were not hunted out of existence here in America long ago although there numbers were sure decimated. There demise came along with the prey animals hunters killed. No large herds no Wolves.
Wolves have ALWAYS been in central Idaho in what you know as the primitive area. Before the Wolf reintroduction a couple sued Idaho Fish and Game to release documentation proving it. Just cause you don't see them does not mean they are not there.
Case in point, the Wolf killed on I-70 IN Denver. Go you one better, I have twice seen Wolves where I snowmobile, one white and one sable. Of course I am not going to say where or some redneck with an ego will try to kill them. Wolves are ANYWHERE large game herds are and nowhere else.
And yes, I am an expert on Wolves. Intelligent questions will be answered. Ignorance will not as I have found too many rednecks have the "don't confuse me with facts my mind is made up" syndrome.
Last edited:
S
stingray719
Well-known member
From the Twin Falls Idaho newspaper.....thought some facts other than mine might help.
http://magicvalley.com/news/local/wood-river/article_64d3fe91-1afd-5794-b5a0-62129c6f11ca.html
Idaho Fish and Game report about elk
Wolves have long been blamed for elk deaths in Idaho. But research is showing the predators have gotten a bum rap.
In its August newsletter, the Idaho Department of Fish and Game summarized recent elk studies and found only a minority of elk populations are declining and wolves are culprits in few.
A third of elk populations are increasing even though wolves have been in Idaho since 1995. Though statewide numbers have dropped some, claims that wolves are wholly responsible for declining elk populations aren’t holding up.
Craig White of Fish and Game said the agency’s wildlife division conducted elk studies in 11 of the 29 state elk management areas between 2005 and 2008. The sample included five of the six areas in the state with declining populations. White said biologists tried to collar approximately 30 female elk in each area, but didn’t provide exact numbers.
“We selected areas we thought would be representative for a snapshot of what was happening across the state,” White said.
Biologists found that wolves killed significant numbers of collared elk in only one area, the Lolo zone along U.S. Highway 12 in north Idaho. Over the three years, the report claims wolves killed 20 percent of the Lolo sample, or about six elk. Three-quarters of the collared elk survived, less than Fish and Game’s survival goal of 88 percent.
White said deteriorating habitat in the Lolo zone has contributed to declining elk numbers since at least 1988, before wolves entered the picture. The population dropped by 40 percent during the severe winter of 1996-97 alone. Bears and cougars also kill many elk. Just across the border, Montana biologists are starting a similar collaring study in Ravalli County, where one factor of elk decline may be high human population growth.
The report said wolves caused the highest number of deaths in two other areas with declining populations. But in the Smoky Mountain zone west of Ketchum, where wolves were said to have killed 5 percent of about 30 collared elk, other predators and hunters together killed 7 percent. The Sawtooth zone, west of Stanley, had similar results.
Conversely, the report showed that hunters were the biggest cause of elk kills in two other areas with declining populations: the Pioneer zone east of Ketchum, and Island Park near Rexburg. In the Island Park zone, hunters killed 17 percent of collared elk while wolves killed none.
White said Fish and Game ran a shorter study starting in 2008, collaring 6-month-old calves in just the Lolo and Sawtooth zones. In both areas, wolves killed around a third of the calves. But in the Sawtooth area, only one-third of calves survived, meaning other factors were also to blame.
The conclusion that wolves don’t have a greater effect on elk runs counter to the expectations of many. In July 2009, an informal Fish and Game survey of 2,500 out-of-state hunters found that three in 10 didn’t plan to visit Idaho because of the perceived effect of wolves on elk populations.
In the late ’90s, even ecologists like Scott Creel of Montana State University expected wolves to kill a lot of elk. But after eight years studying the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem where wolves are numerous, he’s learned that other factors are more likely to reduce elk populations.
Before wolves were reintroduced, elk populations were larger and elk stayed in the open, which is what hunters got used to, Creel said. Now, he said, elk may be acting like they did before wolves were eliminated.
Given time, Creel said, he thinks both populations would stabilize. He noted population sizes are only considered “good” or“bad” based upon arbitrary ideas of what the size should be.
“No predator has ever eliminated its food,” Creel said. “Change is always the most dramatic at the beginning, then population numbers settle.”
Laura Lundquist may be reached at llundquist@magicvalley.com or 735-3376.
Read more: http://magicvalley.com/news/local/w...afd-5794-b5a0-62129c6f11ca.html#ixzz1ZC0nP16k
http://magicvalley.com/news/local/wood-river/article_64d3fe91-1afd-5794-b5a0-62129c6f11ca.html
Idaho Fish and Game report about elk
Wolves have long been blamed for elk deaths in Idaho. But research is showing the predators have gotten a bum rap.
In its August newsletter, the Idaho Department of Fish and Game summarized recent elk studies and found only a minority of elk populations are declining and wolves are culprits in few.
A third of elk populations are increasing even though wolves have been in Idaho since 1995. Though statewide numbers have dropped some, claims that wolves are wholly responsible for declining elk populations aren’t holding up.
Craig White of Fish and Game said the agency’s wildlife division conducted elk studies in 11 of the 29 state elk management areas between 2005 and 2008. The sample included five of the six areas in the state with declining populations. White said biologists tried to collar approximately 30 female elk in each area, but didn’t provide exact numbers.
“We selected areas we thought would be representative for a snapshot of what was happening across the state,” White said.
Biologists found that wolves killed significant numbers of collared elk in only one area, the Lolo zone along U.S. Highway 12 in north Idaho. Over the three years, the report claims wolves killed 20 percent of the Lolo sample, or about six elk. Three-quarters of the collared elk survived, less than Fish and Game’s survival goal of 88 percent.
White said deteriorating habitat in the Lolo zone has contributed to declining elk numbers since at least 1988, before wolves entered the picture. The population dropped by 40 percent during the severe winter of 1996-97 alone. Bears and cougars also kill many elk. Just across the border, Montana biologists are starting a similar collaring study in Ravalli County, where one factor of elk decline may be high human population growth.
The report said wolves caused the highest number of deaths in two other areas with declining populations. But in the Smoky Mountain zone west of Ketchum, where wolves were said to have killed 5 percent of about 30 collared elk, other predators and hunters together killed 7 percent. The Sawtooth zone, west of Stanley, had similar results.
Conversely, the report showed that hunters were the biggest cause of elk kills in two other areas with declining populations: the Pioneer zone east of Ketchum, and Island Park near Rexburg. In the Island Park zone, hunters killed 17 percent of collared elk while wolves killed none.
White said Fish and Game ran a shorter study starting in 2008, collaring 6-month-old calves in just the Lolo and Sawtooth zones. In both areas, wolves killed around a third of the calves. But in the Sawtooth area, only one-third of calves survived, meaning other factors were also to blame.
The conclusion that wolves don’t have a greater effect on elk runs counter to the expectations of many. In July 2009, an informal Fish and Game survey of 2,500 out-of-state hunters found that three in 10 didn’t plan to visit Idaho because of the perceived effect of wolves on elk populations.
In the late ’90s, even ecologists like Scott Creel of Montana State University expected wolves to kill a lot of elk. But after eight years studying the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem where wolves are numerous, he’s learned that other factors are more likely to reduce elk populations.
Before wolves were reintroduced, elk populations were larger and elk stayed in the open, which is what hunters got used to, Creel said. Now, he said, elk may be acting like they did before wolves were eliminated.
Given time, Creel said, he thinks both populations would stabilize. He noted population sizes are only considered “good” or“bad” based upon arbitrary ideas of what the size should be.
“No predator has ever eliminated its food,” Creel said. “Change is always the most dramatic at the beginning, then population numbers settle.”
Laura Lundquist may be reached at llundquist@magicvalley.com or 735-3376.
Read more: http://magicvalley.com/news/local/w...afd-5794-b5a0-62129c6f11ca.html#ixzz1ZC0nP16k
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