I snowchecked a 2014 Std 800 RMK. Im looking for opinions on front shocks. I can get a good deal on some Float2s right now, but I dont wanna buy the Float2s if im gonna regret not going with either Evol X or Evol Rs. What are the differences between the Float2, Evol R, and the Evol X? Are the Evols worth the extra cash?
Float2 or Evol on Std RMK??
- Thread starter TUFFPOLARIS
- Start date
Well... since you have to go with a R-EVOL to get the EVOL chamber... you are looking at nearly $1000 for the shock.
IMO... for 95% of those looking for upgraded shocks, the FLOAT2's have all the same internal features... negative airspring, high flow pistons etc.
A Float 2 also has a increased air sleeve volume compared to a float standard (no longer available) ... the float standards gave them a bad image of being a "harsh" shock at the bottom of the travel... not the case with the F-2's.
The adjustability of the R shocks can be good or bad, depending on weather or not you take the time to dial them in for your use... and I mean... learn what the 3 different adjustments do for you, how they work together and then field test them for YOU to tune them in... It is easier on an EVOL-R to hit the non-"sweet spot" than it is to dial them in correctly... Easy to do if you take a bit of time or have experience...just do that.... some may chime in that it is no big deal... but I have personally helped people with their "R's" that wanted to sell them till they we took some time to dial them in... and then they were raving about them.
For me... and for cost/simplicity....The FLOAT-2'S are phenomenal shocks... Certainly not a "bargain basement"
variety.
The FLOAT X-EVOL shocks are some of the finest offerings on the snow... with the Kashima option being even better.
The most adjustable shock on the market with some very innovative options on them... Certainly exceeeding or comparable to ANY shock on the market today.
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IMO... for 95% of those looking for upgraded shocks, the FLOAT2's have all the same internal features... negative airspring, high flow pistons etc.
A Float 2 also has a increased air sleeve volume compared to a float standard (no longer available) ... the float standards gave them a bad image of being a "harsh" shock at the bottom of the travel... not the case with the F-2's.
The adjustability of the R shocks can be good or bad, depending on weather or not you take the time to dial them in for your use... and I mean... learn what the 3 different adjustments do for you, how they work together and then field test them for YOU to tune them in... It is easier on an EVOL-R to hit the non-"sweet spot" than it is to dial them in correctly... Easy to do if you take a bit of time or have experience...just do that.... some may chime in that it is no big deal... but I have personally helped people with their "R's" that wanted to sell them till they we took some time to dial them in... and then they were raving about them.
For me... and for cost/simplicity....The FLOAT-2'S are phenomenal shocks... Certainly not a "bargain basement"
variety.
The FLOAT X-EVOL shocks are some of the finest offerings on the snow... with the Kashima option being even better.
The most adjustable shock on the market with some very innovative options on them... Certainly exceeeding or comparable to ANY shock on the market today.
.
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Make sure whatever shock you buy for the standard 2014 RMK is 17.25" to 17.5" long... NO shorter and NO longer. ...And they are made for a PRO Chassis RMK.
AND...They are Float2's and not "FLOATS"
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AND...They are Float2's and not "FLOATS"
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Thanks for the reply. And the Float2s im looking at are currently on a 2012 Pro RMK which I believe are the same length shock as what my Standard RMK will be, so I dont think that should be a problem.
I personally wouldnt do it. I would go with an exit or a raptor if you are going to spend the money. Evols are close but there is really no beating a well built coil over.
However, if you are just looking for an improvement over stock for a good price and you want easy adjustability the float2 is a good choice. Just don't expect aftermarket performance to be even remotely close to the level of some of the other shocks.
However, if you are just looking for an improvement over stock for a good price and you want easy adjustability the float2 is a good choice. Just don't expect aftermarket performance to be even remotely close to the level of some of the other shocks.
I feel the same Exits, Raptors, Elka are all better shocks !! I own all 3 of theses shocks and they are all comparable. Elka might just be a step above the rest,just not enough ride time on them yet to tell for sure.....
Food for thought...
You really need to compare, side by side, the Float2's and EVOL R's.
There is not as much diff as there used to be....And don't make the mistake of comparing impressions that are more than 2 or 3 years old... the shocks are diff today.
The damping control of a float (the piston/valve stack etc) is the same as the Zero-PRO Coilover... same internal diameter... A float differs in that it has an airspring and not a coil spring.
I too have had the Float, Float-2, EVOL-R, EVOL-X, Z-Broz (Exit's) and now the Elka stage 5's... plus Ohlins, WE-coilovers, WE piggybacks and, sigh, WE-Air... Ryde-FX piggyback/standards... the Float2's were up there with the best, but bettered by the remote compression adjustable shocks.
I've not tried the Raptors yet.
I'm in the same boat on the ELKA's... not enough ride time, but the fit/finish and overall quality are top notch.
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You really need to compare, side by side, the Float2's and EVOL R's.
There is not as much diff as there used to be....And don't make the mistake of comparing impressions that are more than 2 or 3 years old... the shocks are diff today.
The damping control of a float (the piston/valve stack etc) is the same as the Zero-PRO Coilover... same internal diameter... A float differs in that it has an airspring and not a coil spring.
I too have had the Float, Float-2, EVOL-R, EVOL-X, Z-Broz (Exit's) and now the Elka stage 5's... plus Ohlins, WE-coilovers, WE piggybacks and, sigh, WE-Air... Ryde-FX piggyback/standards... the Float2's were up there with the best, but bettered by the remote compression adjustable shocks.
I've not tried the Raptors yet.
I'm in the same boat on the ELKA's... not enough ride time, but the fit/finish and overall quality are top notch.
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I got Evols for my 2011 standard RMK ski shocks, and an Evol/ZeroPro combo for the rear suspension. Initially I thought I over-did it because of the amount of tuning to figure out what I wanted. I ran them 2 years and never had any real complaint. This season I put about 550 miles on my 2013 PRO RMK before I changed out the stock rear suspension shocks for the Evol/ZeroPro combo, and wow, what an improvement. They become easier to tune when you know what you want your shock to do and when you want to do it. Setting ride height and initial pressure (main chamber), large, fast bump pressure (Evol chamber) and how quickly you want the shocks to respond and rebound (dial clicker on shock body) all becomes easier after you've gotten a feel for the sled. I didn't know what I wanted before because I put the shocks on when the sled was brand new (2011), and after some seat time on a stock setup I know what I want (2013).
After an a-arm swap, I got the Evols to fit the front suspension as well, and they are for sure a big improvement there (not much seat time since install though).
The most important thing when buying shocks is to not just grab a set off the shelf and slap them in. If you're already spending upwards of $600 for a pair of shocks, having a good dealer set them up for your weight and riding style will make a huge difference. I got mine through Carl's Cycle in Idaho, and I don't think they even charged to have them valved how I wanted them. Even if a shop does charge, shocks are quick to deal with and cost should be around that $100 area, maybe less.
For sure, on the standard RMK, you will want to do the rear suspension shocks as well as the front.
After an a-arm swap, I got the Evols to fit the front suspension as well, and they are for sure a big improvement there (not much seat time since install though).
The most important thing when buying shocks is to not just grab a set off the shelf and slap them in. If you're already spending upwards of $600 for a pair of shocks, having a good dealer set them up for your weight and riding style will make a huge difference. I got mine through Carl's Cycle in Idaho, and I don't think they even charged to have them valved how I wanted them. Even if a shop does charge, shocks are quick to deal with and cost should be around that $100 area, maybe less.
For sure, on the standard RMK, you will want to do the rear suspension shocks as well as the front.
Ya im planning on upgrading the rear as well. I have no idea what I wanna do there yet. But as for the front, I thought if I could get some Float 2s for a good price I might just do that (I know a guy who might be selling a set). Ill see what happens
I have had both the Evol R's and Exit X1's and I overwhelmingly prefer the X1's. I do think that the Evol R's are a huge upgrade over the stockers. It depends on so many factors of how you ride but I would say to go with the Evol R's. For me I didn't really need the Evol X's. I bought the X1's because I got a killer deal on them. Now, I would have a hard time riding w/o them. Adjust ability is great, the Float alone just doesn't have as much as the Evol R. But if you want the best ride (IMO), go with the slightly heavier Exit or Raptor.
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FCR112
ACCOUNT CLOSED
To add to the Evol-R experience... My shocks came from a professional who said they were great and I believe without a doubt they are.
The fronts have been excellent from day one; easy to tune and responsive.
The rears, while actually used by a pro, not so much for my weight and riding style. As it turns out I am not a PROFESSIONAL RIDER! dang-nabbit!!!, had to accept that I never will ride the same way and be able to exploit the set ups advantages in extreme steeps and hop overs.
I ended up with the Evol-R/Z-pro set up for the rear, rode it and didn't exactly love that either...had Carl's do their magic to the rear set for my specific riding weight and style and I am finally happy. Really different after the retune, Happy happy happy...
Evols up front, do it! The rears, may need some tweaking. IMHO
2012 sled with 17.55" Evol R's specifically made for the Pro RMK up front
The fronts have been excellent from day one; easy to tune and responsive.
The rears, while actually used by a pro, not so much for my weight and riding style. As it turns out I am not a PROFESSIONAL RIDER! dang-nabbit!!!, had to accept that I never will ride the same way and be able to exploit the set ups advantages in extreme steeps and hop overs.
I ended up with the Evol-R/Z-pro set up for the rear, rode it and didn't exactly love that either...had Carl's do their magic to the rear set for my specific riding weight and style and I am finally happy. Really different after the retune, Happy happy happy...
Evols up front, do it! The rears, may need some tweaking. IMHO
2012 sled with 17.55" Evol R's specifically made for the Pro RMK up front
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I wanna bump up this thread again. I am still debating about what to suspension to go with for the new sled, which is supposed to be here pretty soon. What is the advantage of a coil spring (Z-Bros,Raptor) compared to an air spring (Fox)?? Based on what im hearing, if you want the best, go with a coil spring shock. Why?
I know this is not listed as one of you options but a little reading and click the link in one of my replies.
Can not hurt.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315596
Can not hurt.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315596
G
geo
Well-known member
So many variables on suspension geometry and so many different personal preferences as to the performance expected. It's hard to say what is the best for any particular person. It's also why you read so many different opinions on what kind or brand of shock to use.
Different positions on the sled have different ratios for shock travel to suspension travel. Using all the travel (as compared to using only 75% for example) at all speeds would be ideal and the most comfortable, as long as it never bottomed harshly. A good valve stack will let this happen with the proper spring for your weight. A good valve stack will make spring selection for what you want out of your ride easier too.
Triple rate springs with cross over tuning allows a more generic valve stack to be used (one size for all?) but now you have three springs to select and the cross over points (where the total spring force starts to ramp up as one tender spring is taken out of the equation by the spacers bottoming out) to play with.
100 thou difference in a tender spring travel can be quite noticeable once you select the proper springs (sometimes there is only 4" of shock travel for 13" of suspension travel). Depending on the shock position, this will effect things like transfer, or body roll, or how fast your sled gets up on the snow.
Saving grace of triple rates is you don't have to take the shocks apart (internally) to fine tune. You just need to remove the springs and change the cross over points with spacers (after you get the right combination of springs).
A single air volume shock like the Float 2 will always be a compromise between ride height, total travel used and bottoming resistance. It is best used where shock travel is close to the total travel (Baja buggys?). That's because the finite air space creates an exponential spring. Most sleds (and their shock travel to total travel ratio) are designed with straight rate spring in mind.
Simple example; 100lb per inch spring. 3" of shock travel (maybe 6" of suspension travel) equals 3x100 or 300lbs of spring force plus your preload. One more inch of travel and you increase that number by 100 more lbs. On a single chamber air chamber shock, if you need 100psi to hold you and you sled up you may have 500lbs of spring force after 3" and the next inch adds much more because the volume dictates the spring pressure not the travel.
In the rear sissor position this could severly limit your transfer, in the middle position this could stop the suspension from compressing more to climb on the snow instead of trench, in the front position it can cause a ski to dig in instead of allowing it to climb on the snow.
IMO the only position on a sled they may be acceptable is front suspension (but still a compromise)
The Evo chamber models (not the added air canisters you saw a few years ago) is more like a dual spring set up with a tunable cross over point (to a point) with different pressure chambers. But you still end up with and exponential spring towards the end so you limit travel.
10" of travel "feels" way better than 7" of travel even if the valving is out. But, 7" of properly controlled travel can keep you sitting more than 10" of poorly controlled travel on an ungroomed trail.
I'm a spring guy lol. I can tune my sled (any shock) to be pretty good with triple rates (big selection of springs over the years lol) but the weight penalty is big (be honest and put the triple rate shocks on the scale). It's 100 bucks a pound for the cheap weight savings so why add to the cost of your sled lol.
Valving is the way to go, with straight rate springs (for the your weight).
IMO for a mountain sled, if you have a keeper, if you are within the average rider weight the manufacturers use, stick with the stock springs, buy a good quality (high flow internals, good shaft and good body,,, stock WE's ain't that, but they are light lol) from a reputable shock rebuilder. Forget about all the clickers and chambers (because once it's set it's set and could just tape them up lol). Be honest to yourself and the builder and let them give you their best first shot.
You may hit it on the first try (especially if you have the normal one or two shocks are shot already). If not, an honest conversation with the builder will dial the valving in no more than two trys (usually one).
Bling is nice but it is not necessarily performance.
Different positions on the sled have different ratios for shock travel to suspension travel. Using all the travel (as compared to using only 75% for example) at all speeds would be ideal and the most comfortable, as long as it never bottomed harshly. A good valve stack will let this happen with the proper spring for your weight. A good valve stack will make spring selection for what you want out of your ride easier too.
Triple rate springs with cross over tuning allows a more generic valve stack to be used (one size for all?) but now you have three springs to select and the cross over points (where the total spring force starts to ramp up as one tender spring is taken out of the equation by the spacers bottoming out) to play with.
100 thou difference in a tender spring travel can be quite noticeable once you select the proper springs (sometimes there is only 4" of shock travel for 13" of suspension travel). Depending on the shock position, this will effect things like transfer, or body roll, or how fast your sled gets up on the snow.
Saving grace of triple rates is you don't have to take the shocks apart (internally) to fine tune. You just need to remove the springs and change the cross over points with spacers (after you get the right combination of springs).
A single air volume shock like the Float 2 will always be a compromise between ride height, total travel used and bottoming resistance. It is best used where shock travel is close to the total travel (Baja buggys?). That's because the finite air space creates an exponential spring. Most sleds (and their shock travel to total travel ratio) are designed with straight rate spring in mind.
Simple example; 100lb per inch spring. 3" of shock travel (maybe 6" of suspension travel) equals 3x100 or 300lbs of spring force plus your preload. One more inch of travel and you increase that number by 100 more lbs. On a single chamber air chamber shock, if you need 100psi to hold you and you sled up you may have 500lbs of spring force after 3" and the next inch adds much more because the volume dictates the spring pressure not the travel.
In the rear sissor position this could severly limit your transfer, in the middle position this could stop the suspension from compressing more to climb on the snow instead of trench, in the front position it can cause a ski to dig in instead of allowing it to climb on the snow.
IMO the only position on a sled they may be acceptable is front suspension (but still a compromise)
The Evo chamber models (not the added air canisters you saw a few years ago) is more like a dual spring set up with a tunable cross over point (to a point) with different pressure chambers. But you still end up with and exponential spring towards the end so you limit travel.
10" of travel "feels" way better than 7" of travel even if the valving is out. But, 7" of properly controlled travel can keep you sitting more than 10" of poorly controlled travel on an ungroomed trail.
I'm a spring guy lol. I can tune my sled (any shock) to be pretty good with triple rates (big selection of springs over the years lol) but the weight penalty is big (be honest and put the triple rate shocks on the scale). It's 100 bucks a pound for the cheap weight savings so why add to the cost of your sled lol.
Valving is the way to go, with straight rate springs (for the your weight).
IMO for a mountain sled, if you have a keeper, if you are within the average rider weight the manufacturers use, stick with the stock springs, buy a good quality (high flow internals, good shaft and good body,,, stock WE's ain't that, but they are light lol) from a reputable shock rebuilder. Forget about all the clickers and chambers (because once it's set it's set and could just tape them up lol). Be honest to yourself and the builder and let them give you their best first shot.
You may hit it on the first try (especially if you have the normal one or two shocks are shot already). If not, an honest conversation with the builder will dial the valving in no more than two trys (usually one).
Bling is nice but it is not necessarily performance.
Same boat. Stuck between Evol R's, Raptors, or Exits.
Ya I am leaning towards the Exits. I called Raptor shocks as well as ZBroz and both sound like good companies who know what they are doing, and i'm sure both have an awesome product. Jake at Raptor told me that for the average guy they dont need to set up the shocks for specific rider weight because they have such a huge range of adjustment on the compression adjuster. ZBroz on the other hand builds a shock for your specific weight. I am just more comfortable going with a shock that is set up specifically for me. Although Raptor will help me get their shocks dialed in, it just sounds like more of a pain to get the Raptor shocks set up correctly. I am also not as comfortable with just cranking up the compression adjuster, instead of having the right spring rates.
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Yeah I've heard that about Raptors. Want to be as specific to me as possible. I have heard though that if you get the Evol R's dialed in there awesome. Just don't want to drop the $$$ on shocks and not get what I want.
I have said this before I have Raptors, Exit X1 and Elka stage 5.
After some seat time on the elka's late last spring they are fast becoming my favorite shocks their high speed performance is second to none !!!
They came set up for my weight and riding style and I have not had to adjust them they nailed it first time .
After some seat time on the elka's late last spring they are fast becoming my favorite shocks their high speed performance is second to none !!!
They came set up for my weight and riding style and I have not had to adjust them they nailed it first time .
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