Flag Experts?

[94fordguy]

For anyone who has long-term experience with flags, I need advice on a project.

This summer I am planning on installing a pole at one of my favorite riding spots as a depth pole. If you have seen my thread in General you may know what I'm talking about. Anyway, I've got a new 6x6 pole all made up with markings on it to measure snow-depth during the season up to 16 ft. The most we have had in the past 5 years is 15 ft, but given a good snow year, I do see the small possibility of the pole being buried with snow at 16ft. To avoid anyone from hitting it with a sled, and to add some patriotism and decoration to it, I am seriously considering putting a flag pole on top of the post... The average maximum depth for the last 5 years has been about 12-13 ft.

What I need to know is what is the most resilient material choice for a flag for these conditions? It will obviously be up 24/7 in the winter weather on the lee side of a ridge without a whole lot of wind. Not being on the top of the ridge will shield it from the big gusts. I've been doing some reading on 2-ply polyester and nylon, but I just don't know which the better choice would be. Any experience would be helpful. About the only time to change the flag out will either be in the middle of a deep snow year when the top of the pole is easily reachable, or in the summer time with an extension ladder. I'm planning on a 3ft x 5ft flag size on either a 6 or 7 ft pole.

Thanks!

Old existing pole with 4x4 base to 10 ft and 2x4 extension to 20 ft

New 1 piece 6x6 pole measuring up to 16 ft of snow pack

 

[Snowmow]

How many feet are you allowing to be cemented into the ground for the 6x6? And are you purposing that the flag pole portion be set into the 6x6?

 

[Himark]

I volunteer at a gun club and we have to put a flag up at every shoot. (bylaw deal) Anyway we get alot of flag time and go through quite a few. The cloth ones tend to last the longest. I will say we change flags 2 times a year.

 

[94fordguy]

How many feet are you allowing to be cemented into the ground for the 6x6? And are you purposing that the flag pole portion be set into the 6x6?

It's gonna be stuck in about 4 ft (if we can get a hole that deep). Whatever size pole I wind up purchasing will get drilled about 6-12" into the top of this post with the appropriate size drill bit so it has a solid fit and won't come out.

 

[Snowmow]

For a flag that size I don't think 6-12" Into the wooden post is sufficient. I would cement a good size pole right beside the wooden post to hang the flag from.

 

[mtbroncrider]

and don't forget the flag customs and etiquette.......

Federal law stipulates many aspects of flag etiquette. The section of law dealing with American Flag etiquette is generally referred to as the Flag Code. Some general guidelines from the Flag Code answer many of the most common questions:

• The flag should be lighted at all times, either by sunlight or by an appropriate light source.
• The flag should be flown in fair weather, unless the flag is designed for inclement weather use.
• The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.
• The flag should not be used for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.
• The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard.
• The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.
• The flag should never have any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind placed on it, or attached to it.
• The flag should never be used for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
• When the flag is lowered, no part of it should touch the ground or any other object; it should be received by waiting hands and arms. To store the flag it should be folded neatly and ceremoniously.
• The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary.
• When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country, it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner.

Read a more comprehensive set of flag etiquette rules for display of the American Flag.

sorry, just one of my many pet peeves.....

 

[mtsummitx]

Mtbroncrider I understand your concerns of flag etiquette. I as well was thinking of some of those items while reading the original post. However, I think in this day and age with as unpatriotic as alot of the coutry is getting, I think there can be a little fudge room on some of it as it would be nice to just see a flag flown. And what better place than in a place that brings so many of us so much joy. Could you imagine out blasting through the powder in the middle of nowhere and coming across our flag, and thinking to yourself, this is why we live here. Not to mention, we put a flag on the moon. How many flag etiquette violations there?

On another note Fordguy, your pic of the pole with no snow really puts 15ft of snow into perspective. Wow! Very Cool!!

 

[Snowmow]

My neighbor has a 3x5' flag out side his home. It's on a 30' joint of 2-3/8th oil well tubing. When it gets windy that pole moves a lot! And that's some pretty heavy duty stuff. I just don't think they way your proposing to mount the pole will be robust enough to handle that 3x5 flag.

 

[Wyo 1000]

I found your flag expert! LOL

 

[mtbroncrider]

wasn't trying to come off as a dick....but I've spent 17 years so far wearing that flag on my shoulder

the no light thing I would defiantly let slide.....im more concerned about a tattered, worn and shredded flag

 

[Snowmow]

wasn't trying to come off as a dick....but I've spent 17 years so far wearing that flag on my shoulder

the no light thing I would defiantly let slide.....im more concerned about a tattered, worn and shredded flag

There is a place where a worn and tattered flag would be offensive and wrong. But a majestic mountain top isn't one. I'm sure it will get replaced as soon as it can if its tattered.

 

[mtbroncrider]

I have no doubt it would be replaced as soon as practical

but is that (the tattered, torn and worn flag) really what we want the greenie's to see in the summer?
I know the local hippie's are way more into that hiking thing than I am, and are normally looking for any excuse to make use look bad

now, if it was only up for a limited time...say when snow first got deep enuf to get it up, and back down before it became to difficult to reach, I'd probably make the trip just to see it in person

 

[94fordguy]

First off I want to thank every one of you for your concerns here. I have nothing but respect for the flag and what it stands for. This is not a matter I am considering lightly, if I decide to go ahead with this, it is something I will take personal responsibility for in regards to the upkeep and timely replacement.

mtsummitx pretty much hit my sentiments for this idea right on the head There is another riding area I frequent that has had a flag flown on a ridge-top from time to time. It was very cool to see someone take the time to put one up and remind us of the freedoms we enjoy here, that's where I got the idea I am considering now. I don't recall exactly how it was mounted at the time, but I know it wasn't as thought out as what I am considering. Also considering it was right on the top of the ridge, it was subjected to much higher winds than the spot I have in mind. I have ridden both areas in SEVERE weather, and the location the current pole is at is actually very protected from high wind (that's why we chose that spot 5 years ago).


Depending on how it holds up to the weather, I would think it would be prudent to replace the flag at least twice a year minimum - once in late summer when easy access with a ladder is possible, and once in early spring when the snow pack is at it's deepest and we could reach the top by hand. If something happens and replacement is required sooner, I could pack a ladder with me on my sled if it was necessary.


If there are enough good reasons to not proceed with a flag-top as a matter of respect to it, I am open to that option too.

Again, this thread intends nothing but respect in all aspects. Thanks to all of you for your contributions to it, I look forward to seeing how it progresses.

 

[Snowmow]

I have no doubt it would be replaced as soon as practical

but is that (the tattered, torn and worn flag) really what we want the greenie's to see in the summer?
I know the local hippie's are way more into that hiking thing than I am, and are normally looking for any excuse to make use look bad

now, if it was only up for a limited time...say when snow first got deep enuf to get it up, and back down before it became to difficult to reach, I'd probably make the trip just to see it in person

Good point. I didn't think about those guys using the same area. 94 ford. Maybe a small plaque saying that a snowmobile association,or, if you don't mind, your name and contact. Just to give everyone In the summer or winter an idea of who took time to install it. And maybe a phone # to call of the flag needs attention.

 

[mtbroncrider]

This is not a matter I am considering lightly, if I decide to go ahead with this, it is something I will take personal responsibility for in regards to the upkeep and timely replacement.

I would urge you too, you have thought this out very well

Depending on how it holds up to the weather, I would think it would be prudent to replace the flag at least twice a year minimum - once in late summer when easy access with a ladder is possible, and once in early spring when the snow pack is at it's deepest and we could reach the top by hand. If something happens and replacement is required sooner, I could pack a ladder with me on my sled if it was necessary.

anyway we can pitch in to ensure a high quality flag is used?

If there are enough good reasons to not proceed with a flag-top as a matter of respect to it, I am open to that option too.

I'm all for it, I for have have never seen anything like what your are proposing, and your willing to make sure its done right

Again, this thread intends nothing but respect in all aspects. Thanks to all of you for your contributions to it, I look forward to seeing how it progresses.

hey, what can I say, I'm good at being a dick...LOL

Good point. I didn't think about those guys using the same area.

around here its a constant worry....guess now the rainbow hippies are moving in around zoo town starting crap

94 ford. Maybe a small plaque saying that a snowmobile association,or, if you don't mind, your name and contact. Just to give everyone In the summer or winter an idea of who took time to install it. And maybe a phone # to call of the flag needs attention.

if this is decided, please let me know
hell, I'll pay for it (just expect it to have a Drill Sergeant badge on it if you let me order it...LOL)
I think the local club name and contact info would be great....maybe on a 4' tall pole/stand, and a second at the top of the guage/bottom of the flag pole

94ford, you and I have talked in the past, and this only add's to the respect I already have for you, and most members of this forum!

 

[94fordguy]

Thanks for that MT, I really appreciate it I'd also like to thank you for your service

As to the type of flag to use, that's actually the main reason I started this thread. The flag I have for my house is a 2-ply polyester I got from Costco, it's made by Valley Forge Flag Co and made in USA. I don't have a lot of experience with flags in regards to long term durability, but this seems like a well 'built' flag that comes packaged with a 6' x 1.25" aluminum pole and pretty robust cast aluminum mounting bracket. I thought I would pick up another one of these sets and see how it goes. The thing I like about this particular bracket is that I can secure it to the top of the wooden post, and then drill farther into the wood so that it's not only the bracket holding it on... the bracket would just be added reinforcement as well as having the set-screw secured to keep the pole from coming out.

This is it on my house...

I've also found a site that sells flags and accessories that has different sizes and materials to choose from that I could purchase replacements through.

http://buyusflags.usflagstore.com/us-flags-by-size

 

[94fordguy]

Well I went ahead and picked up a flag kit from Costco and got it mounted up on the pole. I drilled into the top of the post about 8 inches and then bolted the mounting bracket on top of that with a total of (6) 5/16" lag bolts. I'm pretty sure you could pick up the entire post just by hanging onto the bracket, lol. That gives the aluminum pole a solid foot worth of anchor, and it's so tight into the wood you have to twist it to install/remove it.

 

[94fordguy]

Mission Accomplished!

While there was a slight change in the final location of this post, I'm happy to report that it is now planted in a popular, yet out of the way location. I don't see there being any problems with it where it is. I'm curious to see the final depth at this location at mid season, I don't anticipate as much snow here as there often is at the previously considered spot where the old post still is, but that just means that Old Glory will be that much higher above the snow level at peak season. I'm estimating a peak season depth of about 10-11ft.

I drug the post in there on my truck, then behind my sled a few weeks ago, but due to an extremely busy schedule and recent riding opportunities, hadn't had a chance to get it planted until yesterday. I took a friend with me and also brought along his girlfriend for the trip to show her where we ride... she rode double with me on my M1000 as my friend is still new to the sport this year and riding my smaller 700... They both had a great time, as did I!!!

We dug the post in just about 4 ft and packed the dirt around it as tight as we possibly could with the blunt end of the digging bar we brought along... I don't see it going anywhere any time soon!

And just for kicks, a pic of my buddy having fun afterwards!

 

[mold]

A job well done!!

 

[94fordguy]

With the low snow conditions this season we didn't get quite as much snow pack as I was expecting, but not too bad. Old Glory was a sight to see and I got MANY compliments from folks on the placement. The flag has since been taken down however. I did have a couple issues that I am not sure how to best resolve or if I even want to go through the effort to put the flag back up again. I have also received some criticism for a couple of the concerns that were discussed earlier in this thread and though I am easily 20-1 on compliments/concerns, I have had just about enough. Time will tell.

For now though, here's a couple pics of the flag and pole during mid-season... we got up to 9-1/2 ft at this location this year, a little shy of my prediction.