What has everyones experience been with reliability on the 450's out there with Timbersled kits? Coming from a motocross background and knowing what maintenance had to be done regularly just racing moto its seems as though the motors would need frequent top ends, valve adjustments etc.... How many hours is everyone getting out of their top and/or bottom ends etc? Thinking of turning my 2014 KX450 into a ts for the winter but don't want to go jumping in head first with nothing to go off of. Thanks in advance!
Engine reliability in snowbikes?
- Thread starter Watson777
- Start date
I find the engines are lasting a long time for how hard they are ran... Mainly you don't have the dirt and grit.. As long as you change your oil regularly you should be golden. I ride with a guy that puts 100s of hours before the top end is done... On my 2 stroke I can get a good 75 to 80 hours. And it is highly modded also some logic when riding always helps ...
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Depends on your maintenance budget and willingness to tow home. Do a search......... My long term 450 cost $30 in labor and $10 in parts for each riding hour. Some folks sell the bike at 100 hours or less. I ride a lot (if it snows here) so I got a kx500 so I could ride more and spend less $on parts, with easier inspections.
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snowmobiler
Well-known member
.Let me be more specific..... How many hours do you average on a top end and also on a bottom end? Top end twice a year, bottom end once a year? I know how many hours to do it on a moto bike when it is being raced but it seems like the bikes are under a lot more stress for a lot longer time period being ran as a snowbike.
although i don't know as i just got my husaberg this year i think comparing to moto and snow is different
yes snow the engines are ran higher RPM for longer times, but heat is a huge reason for wear on motors, especially oil temperatures and that just doesn't happen as much on a snowbike.
Also as someone else mentioned they are pulling in literally no dirt and dust whatsoever which is usually on moto bikes what causes valve and ring wear prematurely.
just my 2 cents
2 KTM engines later I'm done with 4 strokes. CR500 now, buddy blew up his KTM 505 at the end of last season another con rod. That's 3 for 3.
M5
M5
450r Carbed 120 hours still looked good
Cr500 70 hours did rings
cr500 only snow the 450r season around Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Welcome to the dark side. I ride with a big group and I have seen these 450's go a long time. Sure you are going to get some that fail but if you keep your engine temps up with a thermostat, stay off the rev limiter all afternoon, and check your valves I have seen these bikes go over 150 hours before needing a piston. I have made sure the clutch is in good shape because if you slip it a lot on most bikes now that share tranny and motor oil you can distroy motors from internal contamination. Biggest thing I worry about and have seen fail and take out a motor is the self adjusting cam chain tensioner, put a manual tentioner on and change your chain when you do your piston and just ride them.
IMO as was stated its being on the rev limiter all day. The 4Ts will rev out no issue but they aren't designed to be on the rev limiter for extended periods of time where a 2 stroke can. Pro motocross riders don't even keep it pinned for minutes at a time where an average snow biker may hold it wide open in 2nd or 3rd on a long pull for a minute or more. I ran thermostats and did 2 full rebuilds including KTM con rods and when I started riding the bike harder it just couldn't take it.
M5
M5
Interesting m5. I ride with a BIG group of riders and have thought these bikes would show more faults than have showed up. I have seen some stubborn riders that use the rev limiter instead of the transmission and these bikes just kept going. Surprised me. I guess we have just lucked out, which doesn't happen very often. Most bikes that we have had to pull out were clutch neglect or broken cables that guys pressure wash during the summer then cables freeze up during the winter. What let go on the rod?? Big end?? Wrist pin or did they just break? I do wish the Kawasaki wrist pin end had a replacable bearing instead of a bushing though. It seems to be the weak link where my two stroke has the bearing.
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DenverSnowBike
Active member
Get a yamaha, change the oil every ride and feed it the rev limiter
Haha, in all honesty, it hugely depends on how you got things setup. If your just rolling stock dirtbike puking gas in the oil and riding a few days on the same oil. Your going to find your bikes limits a lot faster then other guys.
Shrouding/t-stat/fuel controller along with very frequent oil changes and your bike will take some serious abuse.
I slap a fresh top in heading into snow season now as Its nice to be fresh but I know on my last YZ (11) It had 250+ hours, never adjusted the valves and they were in spec. did 1 top end before the last snow season. never touched the bottom end. And it got a healthy dose of nitrous as well. I will also admit I am not affraid to hear the timing cut @ 11,500.
Fixed 2 bikes last winter that got slaid by snowbiking. Both were orange... I did need to throw a new timing chain in my yz as it got pretty seriously stretched and skipped on me once.
Haha, in all honesty, it hugely depends on how you got things setup. If your just rolling stock dirtbike puking gas in the oil and riding a few days on the same oil. Your going to find your bikes limits a lot faster then other guys.
Shrouding/t-stat/fuel controller along with very frequent oil changes and your bike will take some serious abuse.
I slap a fresh top in heading into snow season now as Its nice to be fresh but I know on my last YZ (11) It had 250+ hours, never adjusted the valves and they were in spec. did 1 top end before the last snow season. never touched the bottom end. And it got a healthy dose of nitrous as well. I will also admit I am not affraid to hear the timing cut @ 11,500.
Fixed 2 bikes last winter that got slaid by snowbiking. Both were orange... I did need to throw a new timing chain in my yz as it got pretty seriously stretched and skipped on me once.
After reading this thread I am almost regretting my decision to go from my 300 2 stroke for my snowbike to a 450 SXF for this upcoming season.
I have owned 4 strokes in the past but never ever had them on the rev limiter for the single track riding I do.
I have been a 2 stroke guy for a very long time and in my opinion are the best for my style of riding (off snow).
I am reading that it is recommended to do a top end after 50 hours on the SXF??? That's crazy!
I found the following on the web just for parts! Yikes!
HELP!!! I need some positive reinforcement that I made the right decision! LMAO!!!
I have owned 4 strokes in the past but never ever had them on the rev limiter for the single track riding I do.
I have been a 2 stroke guy for a very long time and in my opinion are the best for my style of riding (off snow).
I am reading that it is recommended to do a top end after 50 hours on the SXF??? That's crazy!
I found the following on the web just for parts! Yikes!
Crank bearings $50 each $100
Cam bearings $40 each $80
Timing Chain $45
Needle bearings $25
Timing valve axles $45
Carillo rod $250
Pro X rod bearing $50
OEM piston $350
OEM gasket set $130
Crank seal rings $15
Oil suction and pressure pumps $75
Cam bearings $40 each $80
Timing Chain $45
Needle bearings $25
Timing valve axles $45
Carillo rod $250
Pro X rod bearing $50
OEM piston $350
OEM gasket set $130
Crank seal rings $15
Oil suction and pressure pumps $75
HELP!!! I need some positive reinforcement that I made the right decision! LMAO!!!
Thanks for the feedback! I will be running a 2014 KX450F since i already have on sitting here. In moto I change the oil every ride and oil/oil filter every other ride and top ends at 50 hours. top/bottom end at 100 hours. So I guess I will just proceed as I have and hope for the best. Everyone keeps telling me once I ride the bike I will never want to touch my sled again. We shall see I guess!
As some of you may know I'm a pretty die hard Yamaha guy, I've had their sleds, bikes, quads and have abused the $hit out of them. On the dirt my KTM has been rock solid but it didn't like the snow, it was OK at first but I just kept pushing it until the inevitable, twice. I'm pretty religious about maintenance always had a thermostat etc etc so that wasn't it. All the failures we have had have been the wrist pin end of the rod and BTW that is not a cheap part from KTM. I would do a YZ and that's it for a 4T. My 500 2T hammers my BB KTM.
M5
M5
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n16ht5
Well-known member
Stay off the rev limiter, change your oil every ride, and make sure you keep the air intake clear so you don't over gas and get gas in your fuel. You'll be fine. 2016 450sx?? 62hp, you're going to rip. Tear it apart at 150hrs, check valves at 75.
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Rush44
Well-known member
I've heard of people having engine failures, but I'd say I've never actually seen one in any 4T that has ridden with me. Sure there have been a host of other problems but nothing motor related. I put on an easy 100 winter hours each season. M5 is the only guy I personally know (and he's a dirty dirty Canadian, so can he really be trusted?) that has had catastrophic engine failures. There might be more but it's hard to think of any names right now.
Just as with any other motorsport, some people have problems and some people don't. I absolutely think it's silly to question your purchase simply because you've heard that other people have had problems. It is NOT the majority, it is the absolute minority. Do the things people suggest: frequent oil changes (every ride almost), tstat and monitor the temps, keep air free of obstruction and buildup. Those certainly help but they will not prevent an issue on a motor that went down the assembly line Friday at 4:45pm with a tech that was more concerned about the weekend than how well your motor went together.
Just as with any other motorsport, some people have problems and some people don't. I absolutely think it's silly to question your purchase simply because you've heard that other people have had problems. It is NOT the majority, it is the absolute minority. Do the things people suggest: frequent oil changes (every ride almost), tstat and monitor the temps, keep air free of obstruction and buildup. Those certainly help but they will not prevent an issue on a motor that went down the assembly line Friday at 4:45pm with a tech that was more concerned about the weekend than how well your motor went together.
