Electricians of SnoWest... Halp!

[Ex-Member]

Following suit with the "Grab a beer, throw out instructions, ask snowest" philosophy...

One of my summer projects is to fix up my garage. This will include adding outlets, shelving, and a workbench. Electrical is #1 priority and the topic of this thread.

Here's what I have now. Electricity comes in through breaker. Everything's on one phase, all are 15A circuits. Lower left is for my garage; the other two are for the street light on the building and the irrigation system. The other phase has nothing on it... I have 240V service in my garage, it's just not wired up. And since everything in the panel is metered to the HOA, I don't pay a dime more for it

Hopefully that gives you a good idea of what I'm working with and what my plans are... now for the questions:

1) Is a 15A circuit enough for this? The biggest draw will likely be the opener (5A), and with its low duty cycle i'm not really worried about current.... but are there limits to how many outlets can be on one circuit? Plans are for 2 GFCI at the entry door (Like what I have now), 2 at the opener, 4 by the garage door and 4 by the (future) workbench.

2) What's the easiest way to plumb this in? I haven't worked much with drywall, but how hard is it to install conduit/boxes in the wall after it's finished like this? My plan right now is to run conduit on the wall and anchor the boxes/conduit to the wall on the studs. I know hard galvi conduit is cheapest, and I can get 90°/T fittings for it... what size should I run? The line between the outlet by the entry door and the opener outlet will likely have one 4-line wire and a smaller 2-line for the push-button in it. Also, what kind of tools are necessary to work with this stuff?

3) I'm comfortable working with this stuff when the power's off, probably do most of the work myself... but really, how hard is it to install another circuit from the breaker (240V or another 120)?

4) Suppliers... Home Depot/Lowes seems kind of expensive for this type of thing... are there local (denver) places I can go to pick this stuff up? Grainger/fastenal? Should just need wire, a pushbutton & switch, a few outlets, boxes, conduit and fittings...

If there's anything i'm overlooking or tips that might make this project easier/cheaper, i'm open to ideas. If anyone has links to good wiring diagrams, I'd love to look over those too. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the damn parallel light circuit.

 

[sledmanhof]

ok im in the process of learning this stuff now so i'll try to help you best i can

1. with 5 amps already being used and and 12 more outlets in the future you would probably put a 20 amp circuit breaker and #12 AWG wire in other wise you would be blowing the breaker all to often

2. If you dont want to just fish the wire with a fish tape behind the wall, i would probably go with some 1/2 inch emt. (If you put wire in emt you dont have to buy wire already in a cable form, you can just buy spooled wire and cut it to length). You would need to have a conduit bender if there are going to be turns in it.

3. You could put a 240 v circuit breaker on and use it as a multiwire circuit. ( one pole of the breaker goes to one circuit and the other pole goes with a differant circuit and the white wire is shared between them. Are there plenty of openings on the panel itself. If so then i would just put in a few 15 amp breakers of just divide some of the stuff up onto separate breakers.

4. Im not familiar with Denver but there should be some electrical supply places around. Thats where you would get the best quality products most likely, but any home inprovedment place should have most of the stuff your looking for.

I hope that works for you and doesnt confuse you more. Some people will probably do it different than me but I hope this works for you

 

[cubby]

probaly should ask

I know in MT you need a permit to do that kinda of stuff then it needs to be inspected to be up to snuff so you don't get in trouble. Don't know if you want to look in to this or not just putting it out there

 

[redlineguy]

Permit????? HAHAHAHA I don't need no stinking Permit!!! Not a lot thay can do to ya IF they ever find out. All a Permit does is cost ya money. I never get one unless it is a BIG prodject that can't be missed.

 

[Blk88GT]

Pick up a code book and have a read. I've got each of my openers on their own circuit. Overkill? Probably, but I have plenty of room in the panel.

I would consider keeping your plug by the door and the switched plug at the opener on a single circuit and have another circuit for the other 2 recepticles.

 

[winter brew]

You don't need a permit as long as you don't look up the code and do the work per Snowest.

 

[Skinner]

You don't need a permit as long as you don't look up the code and do the work per Snowest.

Damn thats good to know. I like your way of thinking

 

[MTm7]

all recepts in garages have to be a minimum of 48" off the floor

ALL recepts have to be gfci protected(not adopted yet/2008 code) the exceptions used to be garage door openers and say a freezer.

if you have a 20 amp circuit you are only supposed to load that up to 80%(16amps)

running surface mounted conduit is easier but cutting in boxes and fishing romex is cleaner. if you have access to fish the walls i would cut in boxes where needed... plus conduit and metal boxes are more expensive anyways.

 

[Snowizard]

Code books?

I have struggled through the electrical code book on electrician training, and continuing "ed" class. (I have a low voltage tech license) The code book only tells whats allowed or not for certain applications. It's tough to read w/o experience.

The book costs around $70 , AND it is NOT a how-to-do-it book. The code book is written by fire insurance underwriters board. You can see where they are coming from.

Best thing for a homeowner to do is find a good practical electrical wiring how-to-do-it book at a home improvement store, or hardware store,etc.
I have a couple different ones, and never have had any problem with the electrical inspectors, with work I have done at my own house/ garage/ shed.

 

[xrated]

I say just find a buddy who does that kinda work and but the beer.

I'm looking to wire up my garage this summer, luckily the neighbor is an electrician and he's gonna need help roofing his house!

 

[Snowizard]

I say just find a buddy who does that kinda work and buy the beer...........QUOTE]

Even better!

 

[Snow Fox]

As far as supplies go, you won't find anyone cheaper than lowes or home depot. The electrical wholesalers cater to contractors......you as an individual will pay more. Your only other option is a good Ace hardware. There prices are competitive with lowes/home depot and have everything for a small project like yours. As far as your drywall goes, if you want to feed wire through the walls, do you have access through the ceiling? If not, I think you will need to cut some drywall. As far as your project goes, it is impossible to tell you what to do without actually seeing it to give advice. In my former life I was an electrician. When I have people ask me how to do something, I will not tell them before I see the project. Snowizards idea is very good, buy a how to book.

The new codes are getting ridiculous. They do things for safety, buy you would think every house that wasn't built recently would burn down because of electrical issues. As far as permits, don't ask, don't tell...They are used to raise your property taxes...I know from fighting the city last year when I built my new garage. Never again!

 

[Ex-Member]

Well, I got some parts and started it last night... Went with conduit on the outside since I really don't have access to the ceiling or in the walls. All the boxes I'm installing are at least 48", only one that isn't (it's around 44") is the one that's already there that i'm starting from. Got the GFCI thing covered too.

Looks like it's coming along well... the set-screw fittings for the conduit seem to work well and once that stuff's anchored to the wall it doesn't move. Will post pics this weekend once i get it wrapped up.

 

[Mafesto]

Use LOTS of clips to secure the conduit to the wall.....You WILL hang too much stuff from it.

The conduit acts as your ground wire, so you only need to run hot & neutral.

Also, all outlets need not be gfci. You can feed standard outles from a gfci outlet.

15 amp....use 12 ga wire, 14 will not pass

 

[MTm7]

Use LOTS of clips to secure the conduit to the wall.....You WILL hang too much stuff from it.

The conduit acts as your ground wire, so you only need to run hot & neutral.

Also, all outlets need not be gfci. You can feed standard outles from a gfci outlet.

15 amp....use 12 ga wire, 14 will not pass

14awg is good for 15 amps... 12 awg is good for 20.

 

[Mafesto]

You're right, my bad.
I had to run to my box & check!

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Well, I got some parts and started it last night... Went with conduit on the outside since I really don't have access to the ceiling or in the walls. All the boxes I'm installing are at least 48", only one that isn't (it's around 44") is the one that's already there that i'm starting from. Got the GFCI thing covered too.

Looks like it's coming along well... the set-screw fittings for the conduit seem to work well and once that stuff's anchored to the wall it doesn't move. Will post pics this weekend once i get it wrapped up.

mule, you should have used a skill saw with the blade set at the thickness of the sheetrock and just cut a 6 in. wide slot where you are putting your boxes..then drill the walls run wire mnt boxes,,rescrew the sheet rock you cut out back in..tape and paint..works really good..I find the conduit on the outside of the wall to be a pain...

 

[Good to Go]

mule, you should have used a skill saw with the blade set at the thickness of the sheetrock and just cut a 6 in. wide slot where you are putting your boxes..then drill the walls run wire mnt boxes,,rescrew the sheet rock you cut out back in..tape and paint..works really good..I find the conduit on the outside of the wall to be a pain...

NOW you tell him....

Besides, what would he hang all his prn on ???

 

[Ex-Member]

Got it all wrapped up and done tonight... No smoke, no sparks, no fire!

Ended up pulling 14-2 Romex because a 100' spool of that was half the price of a 50' roll of black and white 14-ga wire... All the outlets are rated at 15A anyways. If I need more in teh future, I can upgrade it then. Has the added benefit of a copper ground between all the fixtures.

Everything on that circuit aside from the light/outlet in the closet are GFCI protected now as well.

Put clips about every 16"... ended up being just about right for the 25-pack I bought, line them up on the studs and all that good stuff...

Only things I ended up doing differently than I had planned is the garage door buttons and the switch location; moved that to the outlet next to the garage door itself rather than the entry door, kind of made more sense that way. Pushbutton setup isn't too bad now, definately better than it was, but it's not quite as clean as I would have liked. Got two lighted doorbell switches.... the incandescent lamps in those draw enough current to toggle the opener... switched those out with LEDs and a resistor... One worked fine, but when I wired the 2nd switch in... in parallel... resistors in parallel go down in resistance... toggled the door opener
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Many thanks for everyone's help and ideas

 

[woodies]

Here's what I have now. Electricity comes in through breaker. Everything's on one phase, all are 15A circuits. Lower left is for my garage; the other two are for the street light on the building and the irrigation system. The other phase has nothing on it... I have 240V service in my garage, it's just not wired up. And since everything in the panel is metered to the HOA, I don't pay a dime more for it
WHAT DO YOU MEAN MULE ?IF IT COMES IN THE METER YOU PAY!AND WHAT IS HOA? not yelling just separating posts.240 volts or 220 is just 2 legs tied together still pay for!240 is usely cheaper to run stuff or more draw!maybe i read wrong?