Easiest top end to rebuild and lowest cost of ownership

[eou_edu]

I'm shopping for a used sled right now and considering all the options: polaris, ski doo, arctic cat, even yamaha. I'm putting together info before I make my final decision on what I'm looking for. I know my way around a wrench but haven't ever done a top end rebuild. I'm talking less about the actual process and more about what it taks the get to the engine and remove it as it seems like there are some much easier than others. Just to keep the discussion on track of the "modern" ( years reflect what I would consider into the modern age) 800 sleds? To add to it I've put what I believe the 2 cycle mix rates are (feel free to correct any of that). I also put them in order from what I observe on their cost of used purchase price 1st being the cheapest, 7th most expensive. Here's a few thoughts I had:


2008-2018 ski doo summit Pteck: I like carbs, easier to take apart and fix without a shop involved. I've looked at that and they seem like the easiest to rebuild a top end on maybe even in frame rebuild is possible? 50:1 oil mix 2000 miles before rebuild. 1st place for used prices

2008-2014 yamaha nytro: no top end rebuild, very reliable engine known to go 10-20,000 miles. no 2 cycle oil cheapest to fuel up. Heavy, hard to ride and hard to get out of jams. 2nd cheapest purchase price

2011-2015 polaris RMK: Least reliable and hardest to rebuild. Second lighest. 100:1 mix. 2000 miles average top end. 3rd cheapest used

2012-2014 arctic cat m8000: 3 years of modern chassis with still a suzuki engine. Most reliable 2 stroke. Heaviest 2 stroke, almost 4 stroke weight. Probably second easiest to rebuild? Throttle body injection 50:1 use on oil. 2015 and up no suzuki motor but still very reliable. 4000 miles before top end. 4th place used

2008 and up ski doo summit etec: Easier to rebuild than a polaris? 100:1 mix. 2000 miles same as polaris. 5th place for used prices

2016 polaris rmk axys: more reliable than earlier polaris still hard to rebuild. Lightest and arguablely the best performing. 100:1 mix, 6th place for used prices

2015-2023 viper, sidewinder: Same as nytro but most expensive on this list! Seems like dealership used to give these things away, now they are hard to find used.

 

[stahlecker]

I'm partial to Cats. I've owned many Yamahas and like them but for most people 2 strokes are the better sled. 2017 was the last year for the Suzuki engines. They narrowed the front end to a 36" in 2016. I'd recommend a 2017 Mountain Cat which has the drop and rolled chaincase but still has the Suzuki engine. Still heavier than the Polaris but very dependable.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

My experience with rebuilding 2 stroke 800’s.

Easiest - Polaris
Mid - Arctic Cat
Hardest - Skidoo

Same applies to all aspects of servicing an older / higher mileage sled.

More specialty tools needed for the Doo, one time use fasteners, cageless wrist pin bearings, tons of fasteners to get to basics etc.

Cat has a bunch of parts that require more disassembly to service but the main thing is lead and wide bottom girl.

Poo is basic hand tools for everything, easy access to service. (Sliding the fuel tank out the back is your friend)

Axys 800 is much less of a problem child engine than the Pro 800.

 

[BigAir]

I would say your list is pretty close, except that a 2011-15 Polaris will probably not go as long as any Doo or even an Axys on a top end. Maybe if you buy one that already has a fix kit installed. I currently ride a Polaris, but an 800 etec is a superior engine if you don't mind the chassis.

 

[Clark42]

My experience with rebuilding 2 stroke 800’s.

Easiest - Polaris
Mid - Arctic Cat
Hardest - Skidoo

Same applies to all aspects of servicing an older / higher mileage sled.

More specialty tools needed for the Doo, one time use fasteners, cageless wrist pin bearings, tons of fasteners to get to basics etc.

Cat has a bunch of parts that require more disassembly to service but the main thing is lead and wide bottom girl.

Poo is basic hand tools for everything, easy access to service. (Sliding the fuel tank out the back is your friend)

Axys 800 is much less of a problem child engine than the Pro 800.

Pretty spot on write up


Just curious.... Why is ease of top-end rebuild on top of your priorities in a used sled? Or am I misinterpreting

for something in the 2013-2018 range, a cat or doo will be the lowest cost of ownership. They're both going to be heavy, but weight = tough. Both have stout engines. With correct riding technique and seat time, you will not be held back by either chassis.

I have no opinions on 4T sleds

 

[eou_edu]

Pretty spot on write up


Just curious.... Why is ease of top-end rebuild on top of your priorities in a used sled? Or am I misinterpreting

for something in the 2013-2018 range, a cat or doo will be the lowest cost of ownership. They're both going to be heavy, but weight = tough. Both have stout engines. With correct riding technique and seat time, you will not be held back by either chassis.

I have no opinions on 4T sleds

It's not the highest priority but I like to consider all factors when making a decision and that is certainly one of them.

 

[bnorth]

From a performance standpoint 5 and 6 on your list are the only mountain sleds worth owning in the current sport. If you are open to other suggestions then the one above about a 2016 or 2017 Cat is also relevant. Lots of good info being provided in this thread particularly about the cost and complexity of a rebuild. Notably on the Ptek and Pro sleds a crank lasts about 2 top ends so add that to your consideration.

IMO the best balance between performance, reliability, and cost for a used budget mountain sled is a 2015/16 Summit T3 followed by the 2016 Limited Cat/2017 Mtn Cat. Honorable mention to the 2016+ Axys which has a better chassis than the previously mentioned options but a less reliable engine and a significantly worse track.

 

[christopher]

2008-2014 yamaha nytro: no top end rebuild, very reliable engine known to go 10-20,000 miles. no 2 cycle oil cheapest to fuel up. Heavy, hard to ride and hard to get out of jams. 2nd cheapest purchase price

2015-2023 viper, sidewinder: Same as nytro but most expensive on this list! Seems like dealership used to give these things away, now they are hard to find used.

As a guy who Rode and Modified those sleds EXTENSIVELY back in the day..
Chances are VERY GOOD that you will NEVER have to do ANY engine work on that Nytro or Viper.
I had a supercharged and turbo charged Nytro, and ZERO engine issues.
Those damn sleds were just short of INDESTRUCTIBLE.

Were they Heavy, YUP, no doubt about it.
Were they hard to get out of jams?
Until I started carrying a SNOWJACK, yes, after that, not so much.
Like anything, you LEARN how to ride them and how to get UnStuck.

If you are Young, Strong, and Healthy, they are a very reasonable option for some BODACIOUSLY HIGH HP riding.
Make no mistake, I absolutely LOVED my Supercharged Nytro and the Turbo Nytro.

I made the mistake of running 17lbs of boost on the Viper.
That was a TOTAL NIGHTMARE, but I should have never gone for 300hp, and she was honestly a Experimental Test Bed.

While the Gen5 Ski-Doos I ride now are MUCH LIGHTER and EASIER to ride, they simply do not compare to the VISCERAL RUSH of those boosted Yamahas..
And the Sound, DEAR LORD the Sound was Magnificent.
NOTHING on the entire mountain sounds like a boosted triple 4 stroke.
They were a JOY to listen to!!!

 

[eou_edu]

As a guy who Rode and Modified those sleds EXTENSIVELY back in the day..
Chances are VERY GOOD that you will NEVER have to do ANY engine work on that Nytro or Viper.
I had a supercharged and turbo charged Nytro, and ZERO engine issues.
Those damn sleds were just short of INDESTRUCTIBLE.

Were they Heavy, YUP, no doubt about it.
Were they hard to get out of jams?
Until I started carrying a SNOWJACK, yes, after that, not so much.
Like anything, you LEARN how to ride them and how to get UnStuck.

If you are Young, Strong, and Healthy, they are a very reasonable option for some BODACIOUSLY HIGH HP riding.
Make no mistake, I absolutely LOVED my Supercharged Nytro and the Turbo Nytro.

I made the mistake of running 17lbs of boost on the Viper.
That was a TOTAL NIGHTMARE, but I should have never gone for 300hp, and she was honestly a Experimental Test Bed.

While the Gen5 Ski-Doos I ride now are MUCH LIGHTER and EASIER to ride, they simply do not compare to the VISCERAL RUSH of those boosted Yamahas..
And the Sound, DEAR LORD the Sound was Magnificent.
NOTHING on the entire mountain sounds like a boosted triple 4 stroke.
They were a JOY to listen to!!!

It's nice to hear from a pro 4 stroker. I had a yamaha viper and I liked it. The particular one I bought was pretty beat up so I sold it. It's heavier obviously. But not as much as the perception. A viper was 520 lbs dry. The same sled with a 2 stroke cat was 480 lbs and 15lbs of that was the battery. So the actual motor was about 25 lbs heavier than the cat 2 stroke. Had yamaha partnered with polaris and put it in a Pro RMK chassis instead of a cat they could have built a 450 lb 4stroke. It also wore me out quicker riding it. I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. Saves me from going to the gym!

 

[christopher]

It's nice to hear from a pro 4 stroker. I had a yamaha viper and I liked it. The particular one I bought was pretty beat up so I sold it. It's heavier obviously. But not as much as the perception. A viper was 520 lbs dry. The same sled with a 2 stroke cat was 480 lbs and 15lbs of that was the battery. So the actual motor was about 25 lbs heavier than the cat 2 stroke. Had yamaha partnered with polaris and put it in a Pro RMK chassis instead of a cat they could have built a 450 lb 4stroke. It also wore me out quicker riding it. I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. Saves me from going to the gym!

And that, right there, was THE compelling reason for this old guy moving away from 4 Strokes over to 2 strokes.
I was simply able to RIDE MORE HOURS each day on a 2 stroke than on my 4 stroke.
And now at 61, thats a rather big deal for me.

 

[boondocker97]

2014 cats had 26 updates over the 2012-2013 models and I would consider them to be the minimum desirable year unless someone knew what they were doing and made a lot of updates to the 2012-2013. 2016-2017 is the prime years if you want the Suzuki engine.

2010-2011 M8s were rock solid sleds if you're on a tight budget.

 

[stahlecker]

I don't mean to side track the thread but… I was a 4 stroke guy. Rode a stock Yamaha Apex mountain for 7 years. Never liked the Nytro except for the looks. Bought a holdover Viper for a year modified it then jumped to a more heavily modified sidewinder. I still wish I had the viper, it weighed less than the sidewinder that I put more money into. That viper just felt right. Yes its heavy. I sold that to a buddy and I still ride it. I really think that sled with an IceAge Elevate kit and the drop and roll chaincase would be awesome. I sold the sidewinder in 2020 after putting an Alpha rail on it and bought a Yamaha Mountain Max (Arctic Cat Alpha Hardcore). Rode the MM stock except for a SLP can and now Im anxiously waiting for my Catalyst. I'll maybe put a can on it. Depends if I can find a spot on the stock exhaust for a muffler pot.

Long story short most riders should just run a fairly stock later (ish) 2 stroke. They'll be farther ahead in the long run.

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

Working as a mechanic at a snowmobile dealership the last several years I’ve found Polaris is by far the easiest to work on, Cat second, with Doo being an absolute nightmare by comparison. A Polaris 800 or 850 needs a piston swap every 1900 miles just like a Doo 800. They both fail in the same manner. I’ve rebuilt many Doo 800 with failed ring retaining pins, the Doo faithful just don’t talk about it. The Polaris crank I believe will now run for as long as you care to run the sled, I have 6300 miles on one. They are all pricey with Doo parts being more expensive than others.

 

[Jaynelson]

Trying to save money by snowmobiling is usually not a good move. Unless you score one from an old guy who never rode it, or you plan to ride almost-never .... all of those 800-class sleds in those years will be slapped out old piles by now. If they've seen any amount of mountain use...engine internals are 1 thing, but there's still clutches, tracks, shocks, suspension bushings, driveline, and a bunch of other things that have degraded in 5-10 years and will happily nickel and dime you if you want it performing at any decent level. If we have to pick from that list and we're trying to specifically avoid engine trouble....then the newer 4-strokes listed are the answer. Otherwise, I would try to get into the nicest 2019 Axys....2016 E-tec Summit...or the newest Cat with the Suzuki you can find. Pol is the "easiest" to rebuild and Doo the "hardest."

If you want to ride mountains in any modern style of mountain riding...then I would adjust budget and thinking to find the newest 800-class machine with the most warranty you can wrap your head/budget around. Buy a 2 y/o new holdover or low mileage used unit with a couple years warranty and keep it 2-3 years....higher price of entry, but best cost of ownership : riding enjoyment ratio I have found. Again that is relative, as sledding is $$,$$$ any way ya slice it

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Trying to save money by snowmobiling is usually not a good move.

If you want to ride mountains in any modern style of mountain riding...then I would adjust budget and thinking to find the newest 800-class machine with the most warranty you can wrap your head/budget around. Buy a 2 y/o new holdover or low mileage used unit with a couple years warranty and keep it 2-3 years....higher price of entry, but best cost of ownership : riding enjoyment ratio I have found. Again that is relative, as sledding is $$,$$$ any way ya slice it

This^^^

“The only bad sled to buy is a used one” has a lot of merit….

 

[christopher]

Working as a mechanic at a snowmobile dealership the last several years I’ve found Polaris is by far the easiest to work on, Cat second, with Doo being an absolute nightmare by comparison

I think that pretty accurately reflects technology.
The Doo engines are by far the most "Complex" and thus the biggest pain in the butt to work on.
Conversely, they Doo seem to last a good long while for a 2S.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

I think that pretty accurately reflects technology.
The Doo engines are by far the most "Complex" and thus the biggest pain in the butt to work on.
Conversely, they Doo seem to last a good long while for a 2S.

It’s mostly not really the engine that’s the issue.

It’s everything around the engine.

Chassis, bodywork, structure, drivetrain, suspension.

French Canadian engineering method I suppose.

 

[Jaynelson]

All else aside, you can have the panels and hood off a Polaris in as long as it takes to type this, and be staring right at the motor ready to take pipe, cowl, tank, etc off to begin any more major work in not much longer. Brand preference aside, the access on a Polaris really is THAT much better than a Doo

 

[christopher]

It’s mostly not really the engine that’s the issue.

It’s everything around the engine.

Chassis, bodywork, structure, drivetrain, suspension.

French Canadian engineering method I suppose.

Canadian Technology!

 

[christopher]

All else aside, you can have the panels and hood off a Polaris in as long as it takes to type this, and be staring right at the motor ready to take pipe, cowl, tank, etc off to begin any more major work in not much longer. Brand preference aside, the access on a Polaris really is THAT much better than a Doo

1200% Accurate