dyno results - 800 engine quality

[volcano buster]

I like the idea that this thing is supposed to be as light, nimble, capable as it is. With that, I would be more likely to challenge the sled with a greater expectation of getting stuck. I can only imagine this sled gets unstuck with one guy a whole lot easier than my current Edge chassis. I would take a lighter 600cc sled over a heavier 800cc sled, but I don't have huge hills to challenge either.

 

[MARV1]

How many of you ride at full throttle all the time right off your trailer until you get back on? How many of you are pinned full throttle all day long doing your donuts and swerving back and forth in the powder, riding through the trees? I bet 80% of the time you are in the midrange, 18% at quarter throttle, 2% at full whack when you actually are climbing high!

 

[jpete27]

I don't think that the horsepower #'s will affect the way people will be handling this sled. When I rode a 2010 Summit, I had to work way harder to sidehill and carve through tight areas compared to my Polaris Iq. I think that the Pro will allow people to sidehill into a tight gap of trees on a hill, hesitate a little, and then get back into a safe area without damaging their sled. The Ski-doo seemed like if I didn't stick a sidehill correctly, I would get stuck or roll it. I think the Pro-Rmk will allow its riders to go into more backcountry areas without having to worry about getting into trouble. I would rather have 140-145 horsepower and be able to carve and go wherever I want, than have 155-160 horsepower and only be able to shoot straight forward. I'm only 150 pounds anyways. My .02 cents.

 

[AKrider]

There will be a lot of pissed off guys if Polaris does the same thing as the '10 Rush when they switched from 2 injectors in the Spring to 4 in the fall.

 

[AkLogan]

the 10 was also a 600 and doesnt have a track record of bad like the 800 does i would highly doubt polaris switches the motor they just devoloped back to the old trouble motor

 

[Bushwacker1]

dont make any sense to detune a 800 to 140 hp when you already have a 700 that makes 140 and runs spot on I dont recall the 700 having any durability isues either Mabey they should offer the 700 and come back with a 800 when it makes 150 to 160 hp and gets you back you the truck all season

 

[catmanm8]

I still wouldn't bet the farm on the HP numbers...too many variables for me....but many are taking this for Gospel

 

[catmanm8]

I hate re-runs as much as the next guy, but I feel that since there were 2 threads about this....

I have run a dyno, and have things to think about....50 degree air YUK..what was the ring seal like...if the sled was run in a not so clean environment several HP could drop because of ring seal...this was very prevalent on the older 700 RMK motors and they were what made Polaris snowmobiles....do we know what the diff is from RUSH to RMK air box, fuel map and timing...what if anything is the same as what production will be...

I like and respect Jim at Dynotech....but this has clouded the issues...It may be what we get, but it may not...Sometimes things get lost in being one of the first to fondle and provide NEWS about a new product..people may be reading into Jim's info wrong too....

I have also based my decision to buy one on the consumers comments that rode them....not propaganda from the mother company...In the real world they ran great..swung some good clutch too...many of them had experience with mod sleds as well as other brand newer sleds...I valued their opinions and respect their knowledge...

We could cry and go into the conspiracy therories, or work with what appears to be most of what we have been asking for...nothing is ever perfect....Thanks to Polaris for many steps in the right direction...

 

[clutch man]

dont make any sense to detune a 800 to 140 hp when you already have a 700 that makes 140 and runs spot on I dont recall the 700 having any durability isues either Mabey they should offer the 700 and come back with a 800 when it makes 150 to 160 hp and gets you back you the truck all season

The sled they took the hp reading off of had 1700 hard miles on it and the Dragon rmk's always has more power than the cross over sleds like the assault.
I think the Dragon RMK will be in the 150 range. JMO

 

[Snodawg]

I don't put a whole lotta faith into the "numbers". What I do know is based on experience. I went on a demo ride and I was fortunate enough to have a demo M8 there also. So I rode the M8 (it had about 1000 miles on it), then rode the ProRMK (about 1700 miles) and then rode the M8 again. In comparing the two, I would say that the M8 pulls a tad bit harder than the RMK when pulling a hill, but not much. It's kind of decieving because the M8 holds the skis higher off the snow giving the impression of more power. although this is fun to do, it is not ideal. The Pro has a very meaty midrange, which for me is more important than top end, but it kept the skis low and the track on top of the snow and pulled hard and was easy to control and point where you wanted it to. I had a hard time deciding, but went with the Pro. Probably the main deciding factor was the rear suspension. The Pro rides awesome (instead of the buckboard feeling of the M8) and is a blast to ride in the trees (like the M8). So as far as numbers are concerned, I'm not. If the production run is anything like the Demo's that were rode hard and put away wet, the Pro RMK is gonna be a great fun sled. JMO

 

[modsledr]

Help me understand this...a lot of guys are getting their p@nties in a bunch over "low hp" dyno numbers from a company who's business is selling aftermarket parts to increase HP??

Dyno numbers are subjective...they are for testing purposes to determine if a change made to the engine made a change in power (and the results will give you a % change...not a definitive HP number) assuming all other variables are controlled (ie...air density remains consistent). The 140hp number is only meaningful if a Cat and Doo 800 are run at the same time under the same conditions (they could also be at 140 under the same conditions...but you'll never know since this apparently didn't happen).

IMO, it's a little irresponsible to post these numbers without a direct comparison to the other 800's.

 

[diamonddave]

Help me understand this...a lot of guys are getting their p@nties in a bunch over "low hp" dyno numbers from a company who's business is selling aftermarket parts to increase HP??

Dyno numbers are subjective...they are for testing purposes to determine if a change made to the engine made a change in power (and the results will give you a % change...not a definitive HP number) assuming all other variables are controlled (ie...air density remains consistent). The 140hp number is only meaningful if a Cat and Doo 800 are run at the same time under the same conditions (they could also be at 140 under the same conditions...but you'll never know since this apparently didn't happen).

IMO, it's a little irresponsible to post these numbers without a direct comparison to the other 800's.

Well put. Taking what you've stated, can one conclude also that these low numbers are even real? Was their an indepndent authority present during the tests to insure real data? I've worked with the latest Superflow's...you can make them say, doo anything you WANT them too. This is why I never even bother looking at dyno sheets and why the leading aftermarket engine builders never put any stock in them as well. Some probably never will believe this.

Does anyone even know what the fuel and timing parameters of this new engine are? What is the fuel/timing curve based on ambient air temp, air density and coolant temps? Couldn't a motor getting closed to that 2,000 mile mark be down 10% anyway? Would in my book, that's piston replacement time for me.

Take into consideration the company also has PCV's to sell for 08-10 CFI's. A 160 horsepower plus dyno run would really get the RAW chassis crowd up in arms and all would be dumping their sleds. A subjective 140 HP dyno run by the new iron makes the owner of these 08-10's really question whether or not a new Pro is really worth buying, leading to more performance products to be sold for the RAW's.

It amazes me how gullable people really are.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Well put. Taking what you've stated, can one conclude also that these low numbers are even real? Was their an indepndent authority present during the tests to insure real data? I've worked with the latest Superflow's...you can make them say, doo anything you WANT them too. This is why I never even bother looking at dyno sheets and why the leading aftermarket engine builders never put any stock in them as well. Some probably never will believe this.

Does anyone even know what the fuel and timing parameters of this new engine are? What is the fuel/timing curve based on ambient air temp, air density and coolant temps? Couldn't a motor getting closed to that 2,000 mile mark be down 10% anyway? Would in my book, that's piston replacement time for me.

Take into consideration the company also has PCV's to sell for 08-10 CFI's. A 160 horsepower plus dyno run would really get the RAW chassis crowd up in arms and all would be dumping their sleds. A subjective 140 HP dyno run by the new iron makes the owner of these 08-10's really question whether or not a new Pro is really worth buying, leading to more performance products to be sold for the RAW's.

It amazes me how gullable people really are.

not to mention how many hop up parts that would be sold to "improve" the new sled so it can run with other sleds...fuel controllers, pipes, heads,reeds, all so an anemic dyno run on a 2000 mile, 50 degree dyno run can be made better...I have some pretty good sources..one who has had this sled since november(and yes..he is contracted by polaris to research all the sleds), and everyone of those sources say this sled (and motor) are more then competitive with any stock sled on the snow now or coming on the snow this season..in fact..every source says this will be the sled to beat...

 

[Ron]

The DT dyno sits at about 1000' so it's not the altitude most of the mountain sleds will see.
Dyno run's don't normally build enough pipe temp to get the fuel map optimized for normal running conditions. Anyone that's lost a pipe sensor knows what happens to performance when the ECU thinks you haven't reached running temps.
It's amazing how so many sledders put such a high level of confidence in fuzzy dyno numbers versus actual reports from some of the best talent that actually rode these sleds. Maybe it's inexperience or insecurity with their own judgement.

 

[HighmarkerX]

I find DynoTech's hp numbers very helpful. I mean ya it is not going to be exactly what the power is on the mountain but he compares a lot of sleds in a controlled environment. Just a week or two before he dynoed the 800 rush, he had the 800 etec on the dyno and it made 158hp. So ya he is at 1000ft and the air temp is warmer but who cares. The fact is the Polaris pre-prodcution motor is roughly 18hp down from the pre-production doo motor. Maybe Polaris detuned their prototype sleds where as doo ran theirs on the edge. Who knows but I was expecting at least 150ish power from Polaris with out the need of a PCV. We won't know for sure until Dynotech gets a production sled next season....

 

[Rick!]

The DT dyno sits at about 1000' so it's not the altitude most of the mountain sleds will see.
Dyno run's don't normally build enough pipe temp to get the fuel map optimized for normal running conditions. Anyone that's lost a pipe sensor knows what happens to performance when the ECU thinks you haven't reached running temps.
It's amazing how so many sledders put such a high level of confidence in fuzzy dyno numbers versus actual reports from some of the best talent that actually rode these sleds. Maybe it's inexperience or insecurity with their own judgement.

E10 has a little over 4% less energy than premium without ethanol.

The ethanol resistor was installed which adds fuel and takes out some timing.

The DTR guy's 22 year old dyno was reworked recently and no D8's have been run since to provide new baseline numbers.

My 140hp 700 could not hang with the Pro in the hills so I'm thinkin' that those who believe the new buggy is down on power are going to be missing out next season. I'm lookin' forward to my two new sliver 155's.

 

[live to ride]

I don't put a whole lotta faith into the "numbers". What I do know is based on experience. I went on a demo ride and I was fortunate enough to have a demo M8 there also. So I rode the M8 (it had about 1000 miles on it), then rode the ProRMK (about 1700 miles) and then rode the M8 again. In comparing the two, I would say that the M8 pulls a tad bit harder than the RMK when pulling a hill, but not much. It's kind of decieving because the M8 holds the skis higher off the snow giving the impression of more power. although this is fun to do, it is not ideal. The Pro has a very meaty midrange, which for me is more important than top end, but it kept the skis low and the track on top of the snow and pulled hard and was easy to control and point where you wanted it to. I had a hard time deciding, but went with the Pro. Probably the main deciding factor was the rear suspension. The Pro rides awesome (instead of the buckboard feeling of the M8) and is a blast to ride in the trees (like the M8). So as far as numbers are concerned, I'm not. If the production run is anything like the Demo's that were rode hard and put away wet, the Pro RMK is gonna be a great fun sled. JMO

good post!
this is the kind of review that imo makes or breaks a snowcheck type deal where your buying unseen ( for those of us that are a plane ride to the nearest demo ride ) track on the snow next to track on the snow with m8 vs d8 vs pro, not dyno #s
rmk assault a long 6 months away

 

[Snodawg]

FYI, the 07-09 M8's were making around 145 hp also. It was until 2010 that they got up to 160+. These sleds may have been a little down on power, but with their handling package they would go just about anywhere you wanted them to. One thing that everyone seems to be overlooking is "10 more HP at 7100 rpm". That's where that meaty midrange is. Gotta love it.

I have spent some time running Dyno's myself, and you can always get the dyno to do different things on any given pull. Just depends on how you push the buttons and roll the throttle.

 

[rocket]

Dyno numbers

You all have valid points about the possibility of "fudging" the dyno test outcome. However, the 800 demo sleds (at least those in the flatlands) were reported by what I feel is a reliable source to have similar clutch setups to what we were running in our D7's a couple years ago. You can "cook" the dyno numbers, but the clutches don't lie.

 

[winter brew]

The numbers I saw were from the most reputable, impartial and experienced outfit that I am aware of.....and under virtually identical conditions as all the other brands are tested under. Unless they change something for production, they will be 140ish HP. For the sake of those dropping coin on them, I hope this will not be the case!!
Yes, a lighter weight sled makes this number more tolerable, but come on....you buy a 800 expecting it to be a solid 150+HP now days as they have been for the last few years and anything less has got to be disapointing regardless of sled weight....the weight, handling and clutching is a completely different subject....having to optomize all other factors just to hang with a factory setup from the other brands will leave alot of people unhappy. Come on Polaris, I know you read this stuff.....get it figured out BEFORE you sell it, learn from the past.