Previous years 500s have struggled with the wide ratio transmissions not being quiet the right fit for high alpine riding. Do the new generations offer more useful power delivery or is the 450 still king with the even transmission spacing. Going on the basis that each bike would have ECU tunes, exhaust upgrade and emissions removal (500 exc). Any real world experiences appreciated, I'm trying to decide what to upgrade to.
Do the 2023+ KTM 500s make a better snowbike than the 23+ 450sx's?
- Thread starter elpistolas
- Start date
No
However, the 500 is a way, way better single track and dual sport bike in the summer.
I recently did some dyno tuning on a 24 FE501 and 24 450 SX-F. The rev limiter is 11500 RPM on the 450 and 9700 RPM on the 501. You loose a bunch of over rev on the 501. Probably could bump up the limiter a little on the 500 with a Vortex/GET but I'm not sure what is safe.
On the 501, I put a Best Dual Sport end cap in, air inlet tube and pulled the stock reed cage, and added a ton of fuel with a Power Commander. Actually ended up making 1 more hp than the stock 450 but IMO, the slower revving feel, wider ratio gear box and lower limiter makes it worse for snowbiking. However, the 501 is way more stall resistant and smoother, making it a far superior single track bike. The 501 also weighs 11 lbs more at 256 pounds full of fuel and all stock.
However, the 500 is a way, way better single track and dual sport bike in the summer.
I recently did some dyno tuning on a 24 FE501 and 24 450 SX-F. The rev limiter is 11500 RPM on the 450 and 9700 RPM on the 501. You loose a bunch of over rev on the 501. Probably could bump up the limiter a little on the 500 with a Vortex/GET but I'm not sure what is safe.
On the 501, I put a Best Dual Sport end cap in, air inlet tube and pulled the stock reed cage, and added a ton of fuel with a Power Commander. Actually ended up making 1 more hp than the stock 450 but IMO, the slower revving feel, wider ratio gear box and lower limiter makes it worse for snowbiking. However, the 501 is way more stall resistant and smoother, making it a far superior single track bike. The 501 also weighs 11 lbs more at 256 pounds full of fuel and all stock.
All accurate and spot on info. might add the 500 hits rev limiter all day long and is most dissapointing
That is my experience as well. I hardly ever hit the rev limiter on my 19 Husky FX450 but I rode a 500 and hit the limiter about 10 times and I only rode it for like 20 minutes.
500=Diesel, 450=8000 RPM LS.
M5
M5
Thanks Glenn that graph tells the whole story. The two most important things to notice is the absolute peak power on both engines is the same. And the 500 shuts completely off right when it gets to that point. Where the 450 keeps going for another thousand plus RPMs. Everything in the bottom end is kind of pointless on a snow bike unless you really really don't know how to ride it could feel easier getting started. But that's probably a fairly stock 500 , as soon as you uncork one and get rid of the rev limiter problem it will make more peak power than a 450 plus have the bonus on the bottom end But then you might be building a ticking time bomb when the crank failure intervals will be higher with the longer stroke and higher piston speed.
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
This is the only answer you'll ever need. The best reason to do a 500 is if it's the bike you want for the summer...in which case it's a fantastic bike, and will work fine on snow. Otherwise just go 450....cheaper, simpler, lighter, revs quicker, makes more of the type of power you'll want.
and the 450 close ratio Tranny if far better for snow
So if the 500s only advantage is a better bike in the summer then don't even consider it. Just get the 450 for a snow bike. And buy some cheap two-stroke for $1,500 bucks for the dirt and then you'll never have to swap your track back and forth as a bonus.
A
AK_SNOWBIKE_CO
Active member
Building the 500’s is always an expensive endeavor. I never catch a break in the prices for them and seems I always pay near 13k, plus $2000 in extras to make the bike run right so your into it 15k before you even snowbike it. I have a love/hate relationship with the 500. They pull like a freight train for a short second and then hit the rev limiter. It is addicting but when you get stomped on a mtn by a stock 450 you realize it wasn’t worth it. Don’t get me wrong the 500’s are an awesome bike and work great as snowbikes. If you want a dual sport for the summer, there is not a better pick for a bike.
that is very accurate, the 500 signs off far too early and the most annoying bike I ever built , hits rev limited 100 times a day ,and I will even choose a 350 over the 500 , 450 with close ratio is the best platform
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Not sure where you live, but a $1,500 2 stroke usually comes in a box up here. Dont be lazy. Swap the tires back on and ride it like it was meant to be ridden....
Funny story I'm actually riding a $1500 2 stroke for my summer trail bike and I absolutely love it but it needed a new crank shortly after I got it so I got what I paid for. But it's not only about being too lazy change the track and ski, the hard truth is any bike that would make a great snow bike would not be fun at all for gnarly single track in the summer. If we ever get a new guy on a four-stroke in the group he usually gets this butt kicked so bad he shows up on a new two-stroke the next time we see him. I don't know anyone who still uses a four stroke in the dirt unless it's for dual sport or track/desert racing. And even if he can't find a $1,500 two-stroke, you can still probably buy a decent 450 and a decent smaller CC dirt bike for close to what the 500 cost and have the best of both worlds instead of a compromise at each. as long as you have room in the garage it's a win-win.
Not to mention some of us live in places where we ride the dirtbike one day and the Snow Bike the next.
Not denying the 500 is better on dirt but for the price and with a little work you can make a 450 sxf pretty dang good. I have 2 18's that were primarly snowbikes. But we supermoto and moto them in the summer. Added 6th gear, Rekluse CX clutch, Heavy sprockets, Lucioli tubes, 12/50 sprockets. Lets you get to 60 without over reving but gives you a nice low 1st gear. They lug REALLY well in the mountains. We rode one almost 1900 miles into the Tour of Idaho before the stator in the 350 i was on quit, plus countless other adventures. I would rather have 500's for the torque and the stator output but the cost and weight are an issue.