Do not ride without proper avy gear!

[SlednecksBrown]

If you have not taken an avalanche course please at least take an AST1 2 day course. It can save your life or someone elses. You should practice beacon searches often so that you are prepared for the day you might really have to search for someone. I can tell you from experience that everything gets intense when an accident really occurs so the more prepared you are ahead of time the more calm and thorough you will be on game day. I just finished my 80 hour wilderness first aid/cpr course...another one that anyone and everyone can benefit from. It was an awesome course.

I always ride with my Snowpulse pack...another tool that could help save your life if you are caught in a slide. Please be safe and smart out there people...and have fun! Don't let your friends ride without avy gear either. Be aware of where you are at all times!

www.ridewithchrisbrown.com

Chris Brown

 

[tudizzle]

A 2 day course seems a bit more than the average back country user would need. Although very informative..it goes into more detail than most would need/use.
As a snowbum back in the day I took a week long night class that ended with level 1 certs. Funny thing is snow science is changing so rapidly most of that stuff is outdated...lol

I think the most important thing is having the correct equipment and to familiarize yourself on how they are used. Practice...Practice....practice....just like everything you want to be good at.


Good to see that you are talking all the steps to provide an educational experience on your rides. I'm sure it doesn't hurt the insurance premiums either!



When did you take your first 2 day Avy course?

 

[SlednecksBrown]

I recommend the AST1 course that is taught in BC. It is a two day course that covers reading terrain, weather reports, avalanche ratings, beacon searches, and much more! I took my first AST1 course 3 years ago. I might start teaching them next season.

A lot of people have the gear but haven't been trained on how to use it quickly and properly. I just want everyone to be smart and safe out there. I've been involved in a few searches and I will tell you that the people who hadn't practised were scrambling.

I hate to read stories about people getting buried in avalanches without beacons...it's even worse when it's someone I know.

So, if the average Jill or Joe can't give up 2 days for an avalanche course that is their choice. A two day course with classroom learning and mostly practicals is a pretty effective way to learn about avalanche safety and awareness...the practicals are done in the backcountry and they tend to stick in your memory.

Just my opinion...

Chris

 

[smokindave]

I recommend the AST1 course that is taught in BC. It is a two day course that covers reading terrain, weather reports, avalanche ratings, beacon searches, and much more! I took my first AST1 course 3 years ago. I might start teaching them next season.

A lot of people have the gear but haven't been trained on how to use it quickly and properly. I just want everyone to be smart and safe out there. I've been involved in a few searches and I will tell you that the people who hadn't practised were scrambling.

I hate to read stories about people getting buried in avalanches without beacons...it's even worse when it's someone I know.

So, if the average Jill or Joe can't give up 2 days for an avalanche course that is their choice. A two day course with classroom learning and mostly practicals is a pretty effective way to learn about avalanche safety and awareness...the practicals are done in the backcountry and they tend to stick in your memory.

Just my opinion...

Chris

I agree with you on this,I take one every year and I don't know if it was from growing up in the seventies and eighties I don't seem to be able to retain all that info and to be able to use it properly.
I will take another this season though.
I would love to go and do my next AST1 with Slednecksbrown.

 

[tudizzle]

Nothing wrong with being educated on your environment.


Its easy for people who ride alot to forget the average rider puts less than 10 days on the mountain. And even less time away from the trail and in the backcountry.

Suggesting that they must spend 2 days to learn about avalanche and snow conditions seems a bit excessive to me.



Just my opinion


Have a great winter....and everybody be safe out there.

-Diz

 

[phatty]

Nothing wrong with being educated on your environment.


Its easy for people who ride alot to forget the average rider puts less than 10 days on the mountain. And even less time away from the trail and in the backcountry.

Suggesting that they must spend 2 days to learn about avalanche and snow conditions seems a bit excessive to me.



Just my opinion


Have a great winter....and everybody be safe out there.

-Diz

Why don't you ask some of the widowed wives from avy deaths if they would have their husbands and their riding buddies take a 2 day course?

Better yet, ask yourself if your riding buddies should just look at a flier or take a 2 day course. I for one prefer my riding buddies have a 2 day course, after all its my life they will be saving. i also want them to make smart educated decisions about the terrain they ride in certain conditions.

Lost 2 friends to avy deaths this last sunday. One in Utah and one in BC. Gone, never coming back. I Wish they would have taken more classes to have been more educated on why not to be where they were...

I got mad respect for ya dizzle, you are a great person and a fantastic rider, but don't ever say that you can have too much education about avalanches, or that a 2 day course is excessive.

 

[Climbmax]

Accredited AST1 Training is 16 hours before you receive your cheezy little certificate. 8 hours in the Classroom and 8 hours in the field. That should be the minimum before you ride in Avy terrain. Those 2 hours "outreach" sessions are to get you to the well and then move on to AST Training. If you only have a 2 hour session you are so far from qualified. Please please take an "accredited" AST every few years to keep up on technologies. Cause I can assure you .......digging sucks. (only done it in practice but it really does).
Oh yeah.......and make sure all your riding partners have the same level of AST as you do....they are your best friend in the backcountry.

Safe sleddin'
RS

 

[tudizzle]

For all of us who ride alot in avy terrain I think it is a great idea...probably a minimum at best.

But to suggest that every person that snowmobiles should have this as their base...to me.....seems a bit excessive....and I think would drive some newcomers away from the sport.

Are any "ride" clinics going to make AST 1 mandatory before riding...no...because that would be excessive to ask.


Everybody should be as educated about the winter back country as they can. The more time they spend the more education they should have. You can never know too much about your environment.



Interesting Fact:

Statistically the more avy training that you have the more likely you are to be caught in one.

 

[gmustangt]

Interesting Fact:

Statistically the more avy training that you have the more likely you are to be caught in one.

Where did you find that one?

 

[tudizzle]

a bit from a paper published on Avalanche.org where avalanche studies have been revealing surprising stats.......

Over 1400 people responded to this survey and represented a diverse group.
Respondents were from all over the world, different age groups, different levels of
avalanche training and used all different travel methods. Some 90% of the respondents
were male but in other respects the survey appears to accurately reflect the diversity of
backcountry recreationists. 448 of the respondents have witnessed or been involved in
avalanche accidents, some more than once.
The analysis of the research hypotheses revealed that all variables were associated with
avalanche involvement and some interesting patterns were discovered. Those
participants that had the most avalanche training and were the most prepared were​

involved in more avalanches.


here is a link to the whole paper.

edit: link was changed I will find...ok found it

http://www.fsavalanche.org/NAC/techPages/theses/tase.pdf


Its a little long at 100 pages but has some interesting findings




In no way am I saying not to take the AST1 course or any avy training for that matter. It is very informative and could provide information that could save your life...or better yet help you save a friends life.


-diz

 

[Tim Healy]

Read a book called staying alive in avalanch terrain, might change your mind you can read that in the summer and i bet by fall you find yourself looking for a Avalanch course for you and all your buddies to take. I remember the first time I got burried and 8 minutes under feels like forever and my friends were lucky to find me. I have been educated and take one week out of every year to take a refresh course and do beacon test with back packs filled with beer. just have the wives and girlfriends hide the packs all over the woods cant drink at the party until all packs are found. then we also do some other testing but knowing your gear and getting your response time down is great. YOU DON'T WANT TO TELL YOUR BUDDIES FAMLIY THAT HE IS DEAD IT SUCKS.

 

[theletup]

Diz is not saying that he doesn't take the courses or that he doesn't recommend them. He actually is for the courses if you read his posts. To put it into perspective, I have a brother in-law that rode with me 5 times last year. The first time I took him out I had to talk him into wearing a helmet (that's how dumb he was). Imagine if I told him that before he borrow my spare sled he had to take a 16 hour course, buy a $300 beacon, a $60 shovel, and a $50 probe. Oh and he should probably buy a $800 ABS bag too. Do you think he would have tried sledding? Nope. So I let him borrow my spare beacon, shovel, and probe and I showed him how to use the beacon. We rode with my other buddies that are avy educated and we stayed in safe/smart areas. Then I introduced him to some avalanche videos online. Showed him why I was "anal" about safety.

Now he's boughten his own sled and avy equipment and is getting to be a good rider. He took a 2 hour intro class and we're taking an AST1 course this season. Now I have a riding partner that I will be confident with this year. If I would have told him right off the bat that he had to go to a 16 hour course to ride with me then I probably would have never gotten him into riding and he's one of my best friends. I'm stoked that we get to ride together now.

My point is if you take someone that never rides in the backcountry and tell them to take a 16 hour class their going to brush it off. But if you introduce them to videos and a 2 hour class they will become interested on their own. You can lead a horse to water right??

Probably didn't make any sense here but I understand where dizzle is coming from just because I experienced last year. Haters, bring it. Even if I tell you that I'm educated and ride safe you won't believe me now! ha ha

 

[RidewithChrisBrown]

That's a great way to get someone started! I always have extra beacons, probes, shovels and even Snowpulse Airbags in case someone isn't prepared or is new to the sport. The easiest way to prevent a burial is to not go into avalanche terrain or at least when the danger is there.

 

[Matte Murder]

I bought a spare sled this year. I like to take my buddies riding so they will ride my sled while I ride the backup. I bought a spare set of everything so that they are safe too. Beacon, shovel, probe, avy air bag, helmet and a Rino so we don't lose the new guy. Lots of dough but I factored all the safety gear into it when I got the spare. Don't want to help kill a friend or face his family. Something bad could still happen but I want to be able to look his family in the eye and tell them I did everything possible to keep them safe

 

[aphoric]

What about online courses to get more winter enthusiasts trained? I'm a dive instructor and over the past couple of years people have been able to get the classroom portion out of the way online, come in and take a written test, then do the pool and open water stuff. They made this available because their market research told them that people aren't looking to trade their free time for sitting in a classroom. Of course they miss out on my jokes and donuts.

 

[tudizzle]

there are some great resources available on the net








but no substitute for in the field training/practice

 

[aphoric]

With snowbigdeal's black Friday sale, there is no excuse. Wish I woulda waited a couple more days to order my gear.

 

[James T Kirk]

A 2 day course seems a bit more than the average back country user would need. Although very informative..it goes into more detail than most would need/use.
As a snowbum back in the day I took a week long night class that ended with level 1 certs. Funny thing is snow science is changing so rapidly most of that stuff is outdated...lol

I think the most important thing is having the correct equipment and to familiarize yourself on how they are used. Practice...Practice....practice....just like everything you want to be good at.


Good to see that you are talking all the steps to provide an educational experience on your rides. I'm sure it doesn't hurt the insurance premiums either!



When did you take your first 2 day Avy course?

The most important thing is learning how to use your equipment? How is that better then learning how to not need to use your equipment. How is an AST 1 too involved for the average backcountry user??? An AST 1 gives you the necessary tools to recognize danger and to effectively rescue someone when things go sideways. You will learn more about using your equipment in an AST 1 then you would in weeks of trying to figure it out with your buddies because you will be taught by an expert.

Your stat about people with avalanche training being more likely to get caught in a slide is ridiculous. Of course people with training are more likely, because the vast majority of backcountry travelers are educated to some degree.

The mountains dont care if you ride 10 days or a hundred. Ask any avalanche professional what the most important tool you can have to survive an avalanche, I guarantee the answer will be enough training and brains to not get caught in one in the first place. If you are really serious about coming home every time you go out, dont stop with the level 1...