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Discover pass / Sno-park confusion

I hate to beat a dead horse here but can anyone explain this confliction information that is on the Washington State Parks website.

Under "Discover Pass Exemptions":
-Sno-Park seasonal permit holders do not need a Discover Pass to use a designated Sno-Park between November 1 and March 31 for winter recreation activities. The Sno-Park permit exemption does not apply to non-winter recreation activities.

BUT.... if you go to the "Sno-Park" information page on the same website, for instance the Ahtanum Meadows or Ahtanum Gaurd Station Sno-Park info it states: "A Discover Pass is required year-round".


Well, which is it?!!
 
The forest service came by when we went to Ahtanum earlier this year and said we had to have a discover pass. They said it was not a snowpark, even though on the snowparks website, ahtanum gaurd station and the other one just up the road are clearly listed as snowparks.

They can give you a ticket if you park there without a discover pass. Bunch of bullony if you ask me. If you buy a snowpark pass for an area listed as a snopark on WA snopark site, then you shouldn't have to show up and find out you also need a discover pass.
 
A friend of mine got a ticket last week there as well that's why i thought i would look into it. He ran into the two guys that were patroling the area and when he led them to his truck and pulled out his Discover pass from his glove box he ripped up the ticket and let him off.
he was parked in the old lot and not the "new" sno-park lot and i wonder if it makes a difference. my buddy said they mentioned nothing of this to him.

So if none of the parking areas in the area are considered "sno-parks" then i guess they should remove them from the WA State web site.
It's either that or the law inforcement personell are clueless as to what is or is not a sno-park. Could definately go either way.

I guess i should make a phone call. Why do I have the feeling this won't go well :face-icon-small-con
 
Update!

I just got off the phone with the Washington State Parks.
The lady that i spoke with was very apologetic and was not aware of the confusion that their website was causing and agreed that it is misleading.
The fact is, as many already know, YOU DO NEED A DISCOVER PASS AT AHTANUM. Yes this may be old news to some, but i wanted answers to the poor information the state is giving.
Bottom line is that it is a state Sno-park, BUT, on DNR managed land. So here we have too many agencies working for the same governor but don't agree (gotta love Washington). So what she tells me is that the DNR will not discount their .02 cents for the sake of the fees already paid through the sno-park program, such as the WA ST. Parks and Dept. of Fish and wildlife have.
Damn that DNR!

So the lady i spoke with walked through their website with me and was surprised at the conflicting information we were getting and claimed she was going to forward this on to the people that manage these websites and get clarification on the Discover Pass exemptions listing.

So there you go. I'm just one of those guys that needs to know why, not just told haha!
 
More clarification on the Discover Pass

"Sno-Parks" that are located on DNR lands are actually called "Winter Recreation Sites". These sites are the Ahtanum winter parking areas (3) and the Little Rattlesnake on Chinook Pass. Almost all of the other "sno-parks" are located on USFS land.

A "Discover Pass" solely will not work in the State Parks Sno-Parks, nor will a "Sno-Park permit" solely work on DNR lands.

The grooming on DNR lands are paid for by your snowmobile registrations (going through WSPR). The plowing and sanitation on DNR lands are paid for by your Discover Pass.

The grooming on USFS lands are paid for by your snowmobile registrations (going through WSPR). The plowing and sanitation on USFS lands are paid for by your snowmobile registrations (going through WSPR).

The Discover Pass system was enacted about 3 years ago to fund recreation on the states public lands; mainly due to the loss of revenue from hits to the states general fund and the decrease in logging revenue. Basically, logging was subsidizing the upkeep of roads that we use for recreation (in our case, for snowmobiling). The role of these state lands is revenue for the states general fund, a lot of which flows to our state school system. Subsidized recreation is not a top priority - Hence, the funding solution that gave us the Discover Pass.

The website is confusing in that it does not differentiate between the two types of land management:face-icon-small-sad.

For the most part, the Discover Pass seems to be accepted and there has been no noticeable attendance drop in the Ahtanum area's snowmobile use. The extra funding from the Discover Pass was the main reason for the construction of the new upper level parking lot in the Ahtanum. If anything (excepting this crappy snow year), snowmobile use in the Ahtanum has increased with the additional parking. The DNR has worked well with the local snowmobile community since the implementation of the Discover Pass.

A plan is going forward with DNR and local snowmobile groups to make a groomed route from the North Fork Rd (intersection with McClain Canyon) up to Jackass Rd. just where it starts heading north on the top of the ridge. This will enable more (and a much longer season) and easier access to the area of Nasty Creek Flats and Divide Ridge. Great riding, but somewhat hard to get to since the open portions of the lower Jackass Rd. blows off so often and early.

Prior to the Discover Pass, the Yakima Ski-Benders had two years of fundraising to keep the Ahtanum State Forest open to winter recreation (snowmobilers and others). The club raised around $25,000 over a two year span towards this effort.

Or you can save $30 annually and have a closed DNR parking areas, no DNR groomed roads and that big yellow perpendicular gate across the lower road access.

Hope this helps. There was a tremendous amount of discussion on this a couple of years ago and some huge (and heated) public meetings. For the majority (not saying how large it was)-the Discover Pass was pushed as the best option. From my point of view, we gained a great new parking area and other minor things that have made snowmobiling better in the Ahtanum.

Tampico
 
Unfortunately money that should already be going to these things have been robbed by our guberment and used for other things. I'm not for the discover pass simply because our tax dollars should already be funding these things. Yet they have figured out a way to swindle more money out of us and use our money for something else. Imagine what we could do with just the money they've blown on the tunnel project. Probably buy everyone of us a new sled and give us paid vacation to go use them.......
 
Does anyone on here have kids or grand kids?
Did u vote for new schools?
I did!
The state funds to help build those schools come from DNR!

Ridin da Yamacat
 
8% of what you pay for that discover pass goes to DNR. Of which they can only use 30% of that for recreation and they are required to split the remaining 70% up equally between their beneficiaries. Go hand your school a $1 bill and you will be doing more for it than with a discover pass.
 
Correct. My point is that DNR is not the greedy one, that award goes to state parks.
BUT... without the 8% going to DNR we wouldn't have the Ahtanum to enjoy.

Ridin da Yamacat
 
Correct. My point is that DNR is not the greedy one, that award goes to state parks.
BUT... without the 8% going to DNR we wouldn't have the Ahtanum to enjoy.

Ridin da Yamacat

That's an interesting comment, because when I spoke with a Washington State Parks employee yesterday, she was clear that the DNR was the one that would not budge in waiving the Discover pass requirement in Sno-parks. And i don't care what anyone says, the Ahtanum Sno-parks are listed as "Washington State Parks - Sno-parks".
My point in this was to get clarification, which you don't get by following the information giving in the State parks own website. Once again, i was told they will fix this to better inform the public what the true requirements are (so she said).
 
Further Clarification...

Krazy Ken wrote: "That's an interesting comment, because when I spoke with a Washington State Parks employee yesterday, she was clear that the DNR was the one that would not budge in waiving the Discover pass requirement in Sno-parks." Correct, because the DNR gets no operating/maintenance money from the snowmobile registration program for DNR snowparks. The snowmobile registration funds are somewhat "dedicated" in that they can only go to certain purposes, mainly the grooming program. ON occasion, such as last year, money was legislatively taken for the large DNR purchase in the Teanaway (this has only happened once to my knowledge). Why would the DNR recognize the WSPR sno-park permits when they get no funding from it?

The mis-labeling of DNR winter recreation sites (ie DNR snowparks) needs to be corrected. This is a WSPR problem, since they produce the maps.

Bull Canyon wrote: "8% of what you pay for that discover pass goes to DNR. Of which they can only use 30% of that for recreation and they are required to split the remaining 70% up equally between their beneficiaries." Yes, but DNR is not collecting 100% of the money. The State Parks system and other government entities are also collecting money. From my point of view, the Ahtanum has had way greater improvements over the past 3 years then any of the non-DNR winter use sites.

The costs of plowing, grooming and sanitation have gone up substantially since the last time the snowmobile registration fee's went up. If there is no registration fee increase in the near term, we are looking at reduced or discontinued plowing and grooming:closed_2:. Bottom line, this is not a "cheap" sport, and this is increasingly the era where we have to "pay to play". Politically correct > No:mad2:! Fiscal reality > Yes...:face-icon-small-dis

Tampico
 
For the record....

I license 2-4 sleds and a trailer every year to pay for that Sno-park. I didn't come on here to whine and cry or sound like a cheap a$$, just trying to make sense of mis-leading info and trying to get the right people to fix it.
FYI- going to purchase my Discover Pass tomorrow (don't like $99 tickets) and hoping the funds are spent well!!
I'm out!

:face-icon-small-hap
 
BullCanyon wrote "Our fees are going up. $20 in the next two years. That should help." The bill has not yet left committee and is not law yet. The bill did not get passed last year when it was introduced. The law would be a 2 year increase of $10 each. The increase would be to each sled registration. I believe it excludes the "vintage/antique" snowmobile class.

KrazyKen,

I will bring up the map inequities at our grooming council meeting tonight and forward that part of the discussion to the WSPR.

Tampico
 
I was under the impression that it had already passed. Guess I misread something. I have zero issue with pay to play, but I honestly don't trust anyone that wears a suit and coordinates our money. Too many people get there hands into things and can't wash that taste of free out of their mouths.....I'm betting the reg fee passes and I'm ok with it as long as the money goes towards what it is meant to.

Honest question. Does anyone follow up with the money that comes in and goes out that isn't involved? Be nice to see the real world numbers of how much money they generate off of us and how much gets used for this and that.
 
Bull Canyon wrote: "Does anyone follow up with the money that comes in and goes out that isn't involved? Be nice to see the real world numbers of how much money they generate off of us and how much gets used for this and that."

WSPR does a financial report showing the total state of the grooming funding and budgeting every year at their summer SMAC meeting, usually in late July. An update was done February 1 at their winter meeting; as expected, behind on grooming expenditures, along with down on registrations - the effect of which will be felt next year. The SMAC board meetings are open to the public. The board is made up of mostly snowmobilers, a few non-motorized and a few government reps. IMHO, our program is well run on the state side.

Tampico
 
Good to know. Thanks for the info. If its any consolation I broke down and bought a discover pass today. My first one. And I'm an avid hunter and fisherman. You made me feel better about it knowing that some of the money is going towards our sport.
 
copy?

Bull Canyon wrote: "Does anyone follow up with the money that comes in and goes out that isn't involved? Be nice to see the real world numbers of how much money they generate off of us and how much gets used for this and that."

WSPR does a financial report showing the total state of the grooming funding and budgeting every year at their summer SMAC meeting, usually in late July. An update was done February 1 at their winter meeting; as expected, behind on grooming expenditures, along with down on registrations - the effect of which will be felt next year. The SMAC board meetings are open to the public. The board is made up of mostly snowmobilers, a few non-motorized and a few government reps. IMHO, our program is well run on the state side.

Tampico

Is there a way to get a copy of the financial report? Money spent vs registration? My concern is with the discover pass funds. If the snowmobile community purchases the discover pass for the sole purpose of winter recreation how is that portion allocated?
Not causing trouble just looking for clarification..
 
Discover Pass/ Sno-Park confusion

I could answer part of your question.
Snowmobile registation fee, currently $30.00, for each registered snowmobile
State Parks applies for fuel tax refund which is $0.23 x 135 gls., which is approx. $30.00. total of $60.00/reg. snowmobile
Of the State Parks Winter Rec. motorised budget which is fully funded by ourselves.
%67 trail grooming
%14 program admin
%10 snow removal- plowing
%5 equipment maintenance and repl.
%3 education and enforcement
%1 sanitation
I realize this may raise more questions, alot of this info and more details could be found on this site with a search.
I too do alot of snowmobiling in a DNR area with a Discover Pass and feel we have benefitted from it since enception.
 
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