that was exactly my understanding of them.
PERFECT for running on a plowed road.
Dedicated Winter SNOW TIRES
- Thread starter christopher
- Start date
PERFECT for running on a plowed road.
Blizzaks are definitely not relegated to plowed roads or "less than 4 inches of snow". I can give plenty of examples with my Blizzak-equipped pickups, but a better example is with a Toyota Venza that we used to own. The first gen of the Venza was a big, slightly-lifted all-wheel-drive station wagon (they called it a crossover, but it was a station wagon. Ha.) It had 8.1 inches of ground clearance and we often towed our 12' x 101" open, 2-place ATV/snowmobile trailer with it rather than the pickup. Only used the pickup for the big trailers. We used that Venza to tow into snowmobile trailheads 5 miles in from the nearest plowed road which were often well over 12" inches deep so dragging the 8.1" belly the entire way with no worries of getting stuck. Since it was 101" wide deck, the deck was over wheels and so the wheels were inline with the Venza tracks, so trailer tires were not cutting their own path, which probably helped. People would always ask how we "got that thing back in here", but it was never even a question it would do it. Just decent winter tires. We would also take it trail driving in the 12"+ deep snow-covered forest service roads until the gates closed December 01 each year. Have plenty of stories with pickups equipped with them; pushing snow with the front bumper and grill. Definitely not for "snow less than 4 inches".
I'll also mention that some have the misunderstanding that the big tire voids (the open space between the lugs) increases traction in certain deep snow conditions because you can spin them and clear the snow. That is a concept that only applies to mud. All snow tires have higher void-to-tread ratios because the open space between lugs you want to hold snow, because 'snow sticks to snow' better than 'rubber sticks to snow'. You want the voids to fill with, and retain, snow because that snow will find good traction with the snow surface you are driving on. The harder/firmer the snow gets, the more sipes apply rather than snow-packed voids but the concept for sipes is similar, but just on a much smaller scale.
I suspect there are some specific snow depths and snow types where tires with larger voids (possibly even some of the all-terrain and mud terrain three-peaks rated tires) would be slightly better, but considering what Blizzaks have done on all my vehicles and the amount of deep snow I push, I feel it's an unlikely scenario for my particular use and that scenario is probably avoidable. For me, I feel it's better to choose the tire for the conditions I'll experience for the vast majority of my winter driving rather than a "possible" situation where a different tire might be better, but that tire would have worse traction for the rest of the winter miles.
That being said, once you choose to not run a three-peak all-terrain and have started to shop in the "soft-compound, dedicated winter tire" category, you are splitting hairs and really can't go wrong. If you want, reference the user satisfaction charts on Tirerack for that category, but no reason to overthink it. Pick any tire in that category, that meets your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (be that C load range or an LT E load range), and run it.
I'll also mention that some have the misunderstanding that the big tire voids (the open space between the lugs) increases traction in certain deep snow conditions because you can spin them and clear the snow. That is a concept that only applies to mud. All snow tires have higher void-to-tread ratios because the open space between lugs you want to hold snow, because 'snow sticks to snow' better than 'rubber sticks to snow'. You want the voids to fill with, and retain, snow because that snow will find good traction with the snow surface you are driving on. The harder/firmer the snow gets, the more sipes apply rather than snow-packed voids but the concept for sipes is similar, but just on a much smaller scale.
I suspect there are some specific snow depths and snow types where tires with larger voids (possibly even some of the all-terrain and mud terrain three-peaks rated tires) would be slightly better, but considering what Blizzaks have done on all my vehicles and the amount of deep snow I push, I feel it's an unlikely scenario for my particular use and that scenario is probably avoidable. For me, I feel it's better to choose the tire for the conditions I'll experience for the vast majority of my winter driving rather than a "possible" situation where a different tire might be better, but that tire would have worse traction for the rest of the winter miles.
That being said, once you choose to not run a three-peak all-terrain and have started to shop in the "soft-compound, dedicated winter tire" category, you are splitting hairs and really can't go wrong. If you want, reference the user satisfaction charts on Tirerack for that category, but no reason to overthink it. Pick any tire in that category, that meets your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (be that C load range or an LT E load range), and run it.
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![tilted[1].jpg](https://www.snowest.com/forum/data/attachments/341/341499-448e70d9915ad2bdfb3212c23668a4a3.jpg "tilted[1].jpg")
BRIDGESTONEBLIZZAK DM-V2
CUV/SUV| Winter4.8
(238)
TIRE DESCRIPTION
Engineered for many popular SUVs, CUVs, and light trucks, Blizzak DM-V2 tires let you grip the road confidently during the harsh winter months. When the winter weather is unpredictable, these tires give you the ability to navigate the ice and snow with improved braking power. Latest proprietary multicell ™ compound removes water from the surface of the tire for solid braking on ice. Advanced hydrophilic properties provides confident stopping power on snow and ice.
*Conditions apply. See BridgestoneTire.com/warranty for details.
TIRE SIZE
275/60R20
Blizzak DM-V2 is what I run for winter. My 1/2 ton gets E-load rated LT tires for summer (due to carrying slide-in, pop-up pickup camper for 7 months straight and doing lots of trail driving). My truck is coming up on 10 years so in another couple years, it will get replaced; this time with a 3/4 ton. Then I won't be able to use the DM-V2 anymore and will see what is on the market for winter LT tires then. Right now I'd probably pick the Blizzak LT, but there are also the General Grabber Arctic LT and Firestone Winterforce LT as others have mentioned. I just don't need the LT tires on current pickup for winter time so run the DM-V2.
this one poped up on the radar last night in this video...
MICHELIN®X-ICE® SNOW
- SUV Crossover
A winter tire designed for maximum mobility and safety–not just when it’s new, but for seasons to come.
- Ultimate Snow & Ice Confidence
- Excellent Winter Traction
- Long Lasting Winter Tread
- Quiet & Comfortable Ride
- Great Fuel Efficiency
- Supported by the Michelin Promise Plan of a 60-day satisfaction guarantee, roadside assistance, and a 40,000-mileage warranty. Click here for details.
Those bot videos are using better and better computer-generated voices. Still hard to watch since they are just regurgitated info from other sources. But at least it mentioned the Michelin X-ice to put that on your radar. I've heard good things about those but never tried them.
one of my favorites right there. ran them on my half ton for years.
also ran the Firestone winter force lt. Great option as well.
now I run a dually on 20’s. Trying to find a 35” winter tire is tricky!
also ran the Firestone winter force lt. Great option as well.
now I run a dually on 20’s. Trying to find a 35” winter tire is tricky!
I’ve always tried to keep in mind that sacrificing a little in a foot of snow in a parking lot likely won’t be the end of my crew and I… but loosing control on the highway on the way there could be. Traction on the road takes precedence for ME.
Maybe carrying a set of chains would be the way to go for you?
true enough
but what caught my attention was that the Michele actually had a mileage warranty on a Winter Tire.
40K was quite surprising.
What makes you think any of these dedicated snow tires would be BAD on winter roads?
I think goreidoo is saying the dedicated snow tires would be GOOD on the road; not BAD (he was replying your your previous post that you thought blizzaks and such were good on road but hadn't considered them for deep snow or towing). So he was saying he chooses to prioritize using whichever tire was the best on winter roads and then dealing with however they perform in deep snow because the consequences are lower when getting stuck in a parking lot than losing control on the roads. And, there are supplemental things, like chains, that can be added to any tire in low speed situations to improve their traction while one is relying on the inherent performance of the tire itself at road speeds. So, the comment was FOR choosing a good dedicated winter tire because they perform best on winter roads.
Bingo
Be careful when looking at winter/snow reviews on AT or MT tires on a site like TireRack. I found that a ton of reviews come out of states like California, Nevada, Arizona, Tennessee, etc. … these people like the tires, have never driven them on the snow but just fill in a 9 or 10 under the winter ratings for that tire, because they like it.
The General Grabber ATX has excellent snow (overall as well) reviews on tire rack- that tire was downright scary in winter conditions. Just an all around bad tire on top of that. Looks cool and is relatively cheap I guess.
The General Grabber ATX has excellent snow (overall as well) reviews on tire rack- that tire was downright scary in winter conditions. Just an all around bad tire on top of that. Looks cool and is relatively cheap I guess.
Agreed. As with all user-collected data, take it with a grain of salt. But the ratings can be used to kick off your research and seek better reviews that include comparative tests on the same vehicles on the same day in measured courses and varied surfaces.
Regarding the Tirerack ratings and other such charts, it should also be noted that the ratings (such as "Winter / Snow performance") are scored only against other tires within the same tire category. A "Winter / Snow performance" rating of 8.7 (like for the General Grabber AT/X given as an example) within the "On-/Off-Road All-Terrain" tire category does not mean it has comparable snow performance as an 8.7 "Winter / Snow performance" rating of a tire in the Winter tire category. Meaning, that the snow rating of 8.7 for the grabber is only a comparison against the other "On-/Off-Road All-Terrain" tires on the same chart. A tire from the Winter category with a lower rating (7.5 for example) is likely much better in the snow than the 8.7 snow rating for the Grabber in the "On-/Off-Road All-Terrain" tire category.
The ratings should be read as "Compared against other tires within this category, a higher rating is better" but you can't compare the snow rating/score from one tire category to another tire category, unfortunately. A high snow rating in the all-terrain category might mean it still sucks in the snow, but it sucks less than the other all terrains with lower snow scores. Ha. It's simply a tool to compare within a single category. The lowest rated dedicated snow tire is likely a better snow performer than the highest snow rated "On-/Off-Road All-Terrain" or highest snow rated "Off Road Maximum Traction" tire.
Regarding the Tirerack ratings and other such charts, it should also be noted that the ratings (such as "Winter / Snow performance") are scored only against other tires within the same tire category. A "Winter / Snow performance" rating of 8.7 (like for the General Grabber AT/X given as an example) within the "On-/Off-Road All-Terrain" tire category does not mean it has comparable snow performance as an 8.7 "Winter / Snow performance" rating of a tire in the Winter tire category. Meaning, that the snow rating of 8.7 for the grabber is only a comparison against the other "On-/Off-Road All-Terrain" tires on the same chart. A tire from the Winter category with a lower rating (7.5 for example) is likely much better in the snow than the 8.7 snow rating for the Grabber in the "On-/Off-Road All-Terrain" tire category.
The ratings should be read as "Compared against other tires within this category, a higher rating is better" but you can't compare the snow rating/score from one tire category to another tire category, unfortunately. A high snow rating in the all-terrain category might mean it still sucks in the snow, but it sucks less than the other all terrains with lower snow scores. Ha. It's simply a tool to compare within a single category. The lowest rated dedicated snow tire is likely a better snow performer than the highest snow rated "On-/Off-Road All-Terrain" or highest snow rated "Off Road Maximum Traction" tire.
while NOT aimed at truck tires, this was the best review of soft rubber winter compound tires I have found so far.
I wouldn't place too much weight on a mileage warranty for winter tires. As we say with dirt bike tires: you can have a tire that gives good traction or a tire that lasts a long time, but not both. If you want a tire that provides phenomenal traction, expect it to wear faster. Also, rubber compounds tend to get harder as they age. Therefore, as a tire ages it will not grip as well. So if optimal traction is the ultimate goal you might as well use up the tires in a couple years and replace them.
Here's a discussion on winter LT tires for larger trucks on a Ford pickup forum I frequent: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1712250-nokian-hakkapeliitta-lt3-snow-tires.html
Something like a Duratrac seems to work better on a 3/4-1 ton truck over a 1/2 ton. Probably strictly due to weight. More weight = more traction in all situations. Once the snow is deep enough, and you have enough weight on a truck a studded M/T will outperform a snow tire. Even better than a light loaded 3/4 ton with chains. Now that's in very extreme conditions where the snow is 2-3' deep and there's 12,000lb on the truck.
For my F-450 I'll be running Michelin XDS2 with a set of chains thrown in if it gets deep. https://business.michelinman.com/tires/michelin-xds-2-19-5#specifications
Here's a discussion on winter LT tires for larger trucks on a Ford pickup forum I frequent: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1712250-nokian-hakkapeliitta-lt3-snow-tires.html
Something like a Duratrac seems to work better on a 3/4-1 ton truck over a 1/2 ton. Probably strictly due to weight. More weight = more traction in all situations. Once the snow is deep enough, and you have enough weight on a truck a studded M/T will outperform a snow tire. Even better than a light loaded 3/4 ton with chains. Now that's in very extreme conditions where the snow is 2-3' deep and there's 12,000lb on the truck.
For my F-450 I'll be running Michelin XDS2 with a set of chains thrown in if it gets deep. https://business.michelinman.com/tires/michelin-xds-2-19-5#specifications
The Nokian HAKKAPELIITTA LT3 Snow Tires seem to be consistently rated as one of the best.
and...it's fun to say.
(for those interested, the Hakkapeliitta were the Finnish light cavalryman)
(for those interested, the Hakkapeliitta were the Finnish light cavalryman)
Ran the Nokian on both my trucks, dodge and duramax, both 3/4 ton. Always use a studded winter tire, have mounted on separate wheels so I can change at home. Was happy with them till about 1/2 wear and performance seems to go way down. Trying studded duratrac this year on dodge, so far very happy with it. We do get alot of icy roads and wind. High pucker factor when going down the highway with a 28' enclosed trailer and the side wind starts pushing you sideways off the road.. studs help alot. Usually put one set of studded tires on the trailer as well to help. I always have a set of 4 chains in the back of the truck as well just in case. Been in parking lots when snow dumps and everyone else is stuck and you have to pick your way around everyone else. You never know.
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