Ya going to the XT arm might be cheap but not going the other way to the X set up isn't. Not from what I can see anyways. I can't find anything for $169??
"Contrarian" First Ride Review: 2023 Gen5 Turbo Expert
- Thread starter christopher
- Start date
T-motion works for some. But, if you want the most precise technical sled, it is not the best.
I am happy Doo is offering the choice between t- motion and no t-motion.
Now, if they could just mimic Poo with actual color choices for spring order, that would be great.
I always liked the T-motion on all my G4's. But I did get a G5 Expert Turbo this year (just got it yesterday). So am curious to see how the new XT setup works. Either way, I'll get used to it.
I rode skidoo for 6 years and loved them. I bought a new sled every year so I’m familiar with their progression. The last year I bought one was 19’. Since then I’ve spent considerable time on them, turbo and na. In 20’ I switched to Polaris after riding a pro 850 155 for just one day. That sled felt alive compared to the skidoo. Super predictable yet so easy to change directions…much easier than Doo imo. Also, my shoulders started to hurt riding Doo and for the first time they stopped hurting when I was on the pro.
Yesterday I jumped on a 154 g5 expert turbo. Absolutely amazing engine. The best on the market imo. Wheelie on command and zero lag.
The chassis……I hate it. It felt heavy, wanted to fight me and get back on 2 skis no matter where I put my feet. Also the skidoo twitch in the bars….? I forgot how bad it is. Within 3 minutes my shoulders were killing me again. There’s just something about that geometry that torques my shoulders wrong and makes it feel like they’re about to pop out of socket.
I miss the fit and finish and the refined feel, and that engine but not enough to ever switch back.
Yesterday I jumped on a 154 g5 expert turbo. Absolutely amazing engine. The best on the market imo. Wheelie on command and zero lag.
The chassis……I hate it. It felt heavy, wanted to fight me and get back on 2 skis no matter where I put my feet. Also the skidoo twitch in the bars….? I forgot how bad it is. Within 3 minutes my shoulders were killing me again. There’s just something about that geometry that torques my shoulders wrong and makes it feel like they’re about to pop out of socket.
I miss the fit and finish and the refined feel, and that engine but not enough to ever switch back.
C
caper11
Well-known member
I actually had something similar typed up last night but didn’t post it.
I ordered a expert with the expectation that it would be harder to get on edge, I knew what I was ordering.
As I mentioned earlier, I locked out my tmotion before but didn’t like how much stress it out on the rear triangle, I actually cracked mine in 100miles.
I guess my advice to those who feel that they are struggling, put a removable sway bar link in that can be removed when you get to the hills, and get used to what you have.
I don’t like the loose feeling of the tmotion but learned how to work with it, it has its pros and cons, same as a solid rear arm.
The T-Motion does help initiate. Without it, guys are feeling the wide track holding them parallel to the snow. The longer the track and the harder the snow, the worse it will be. I have a C-motion (similar aftermarket design) scissor arm on my Polaris 174 but I do not need it on my 165 Khaos. On the Polaris 174 it does not make it less predictable so I expect simply adding the T-motion arm back in is the ticket.
D
Driver
Well-known member
I feel the same issues when hopping to polaris. Vertical steering just doesnt fit my style of riding, but would get use to it if I would ride few days.
But you should try to adjust riser and the bar. Turn the bar "down" (there are marks on the bar so you see how much you are adjusting) as if its turned too much "up" it will be quite a stress to shoulders and arms. Some of my friends have complained about arms and shoulders and simple fix has been to readjust the bar on better lower position.
But what comes pol vs doo, doo requires a lot more counter steering than pol. Actually steering on doo is much lighter than on pol. But usually poo riders takes some time to understand this when trying out doo, and if you ride as you would ride polaris for sure you will worn out quite fast.
F
formulaben
Member
Can you be more specific about what you liked about no t-motion?
I am looking at a revalve on stock shocks or putting a set of 1500 qs3 fox on front. Way too softlysprung n valved
More stable and predictable. Held and edge and side-hilled better.
Took a bit more effort to get on edge, but well worth the stability gained.
There is no real advantage I just like to do what race teams don't.
Did you play with the suspension at all? I would try the RTS awfully soft and the FTS awfully stiff.Yup, there just has to be one in every group I suppose.
Today its my turn.
Context..
I am 60yrs old and was a HARD CORE Yamaha rider from 2008 till 2016 when Ski-Doo released the new Gen4 sleds.
Nytros, Phazers, Turbo Nytros, Supercharged Nytros, Turbo Viper ect..
I actively participate in Trail Riding, Mountain Riding, Meadow Riding, and regularly ride with people of all different skills levels including "Never-Evers".
Since last year I have been riding a 22 Turbo Expert, and absolutely LOVING IT. Best Damn sled I have ever owned!
=====
Today I was finally able to take out my new 2023 Turbo Expert for its first ride, and what an awakening it was.
Last year I remember riding one of the new Turbo Poos and really NOT liking it at all, but not spending much time trying to figure out WHY I didn't like it, just did not care for it's handing in particular.
Today, within minutes of riding the new Turbo Expert, I felt like I was back on one of my Nytros and remembering just how much I fell in LOVE with the new Gen4 T-Motion sleds back in the fall of 2016 when I bought 3 of them. The Gen5 Turbo Expert is an AMAZING SLED. When it comes to SIDE HILLING it DESTROYS the 22. Having removed the T-Motion renders the sled far more Precise, Deliberate and Intentional in its pure mountain prowess. I could hold a sidehill line far better than on my 22 w/T-Motion, and its no wonder to me at all why so many people rave about this sled.
But.
Because I spend a good deal of my riding time on the trail and in the meadows, the lack of T-Motion translated to a direct increase in the physicality of the ride. I remember all too well coming in off my Nytro after a 6hr ride being just TIRED. While the sled in all its iterations was very capable, I paid a price for riding it in increased muscle fatigue, mostly from its weight, but today I was reminded that it also came from the standard suspension.
While T-Motion gets a deservedly bad rep from the purely dedicated mountain crowd, I absolutely prefer it for general all around riding over the Non-Flex edge track and Non-Flexing suspension. The deeper and fresher the powder, the better the 23 Turbo Expert performed! The shallower and older the snow, the better the 22 Turbo Expert performed.
While I fully expect these comments to be "poorly" received here on SnoWest, I think its fair to say this sled is not for Everyone. If you are spending a good deal of your time sidehilling, its ABSOLUTELY the sled for you. If you are in your 20s/30s and don't mind the extra effort it requires, then its the performance beast you have been looking for. But if you are a fan of Ski-Doo's T-Motion, with its drawback and advantages, the 2023 Turbo Expert will likely not be your cup of tea.
As for me.
I will be SnowChecking 2 or 3 new 2024 Summit X Turbos this spring.
Will sell off both my 2022 and my 2023
Now.
Tell feel free to TELL MY WHY I AM WRONG..
Having the rear too firm can really screw the handling up.
Thanks Dave. Will try T-Motion X first. Could you quickly explain how a set of DS3s would make the sled easier to initiate a turn in low snow ? Maybe it has an underside that is more rollable!
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The DS4 ski sits further ahead in the spindle, this allows less ski out the back so when your sidehilling less back of the ski is in the snow, there fore less depth, so it has less feedback keeping a straighter line in theory, however when you move the ski forward you make it like a chopper for lack of better explination, there for the steering becomes heavier. There is always a trade off. The steering is harder on the expert, no doubt. If you look and compare the keel also comes back further and widens at the back, making it harder as well. Remember when the ds three ski and 36 front end came out everybody raved about how it felt like power steering? Well people have forgot now as it has been many years that the steering on the d3 is so light. It can make some over ride the machine until they get use to it. The ds4 ski is not better than the DS3 ski, they are just different. Same as the Expert is not better than the Summit X, they are the same one goes right one goes left, choose what you want. I said this last year as every year the ski-doo sled has gotten easier to ride with the highest level sled, but for 2023 you have a choice between the summit x and the expert, two exact same capable sleds but you choose what you want. I felt many were confused by this as I was. When I rode the expert I felt it was harder to ride thus saying so, I was the first to say it, but not the first to know, as the engineers and riders who had been on it longer said this to me after. When I said it, my buddy Mike Skiba owner of GVP siad he ordered the summit x cause he found the same thing and Dennis at CKMP said when I asked him, whenever he rode the expert, he could not wait to get back on the 23 freeride! That was a huge statement if you know how Dennis and Jason Ribi ride and Dennis at that point had the most km on the expert and freeride. I was worried as I want people to order the right sled with all the info as I get to ride the sleds the year before and many do not, when i enquired with most of the team who love the expert I asked them what was their second sled they ordered and it was either a summit x or freeride. This in my mind is not fair as when you have 2 or three sleds then you can get one of everything but if I went to buy a sled it would be just one and I would want the best sled that makes riding as easy as possible. That is why I changed my order to the freeride and summit x and could not be happier. Most would not even know if the t-motion x was put in their expert, especially now with soft deep snow and all the other things that make either of these sled RAD like the POWER! TRack and the new changes. But of course it all comes down to ego and t-motion x sucks crowd have made it a , your cool if its locked and uncool ****ty rider if you have it, I let them judge, while I am out riding having fun! Cause that is what sledding is about for me! cheers dave
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caper11
Well-known member
The freeride has a 36” front end, better shocks and valving over the summit and summit X. I wonder if guys preferred that sled over the x and expert due to the Better suspension.
After I revalved my turbo G4, the suspension was a lot better and the negatives of the tmotion were less apparent.
It would be nice if these sleds were more customizable from the factory, especially what a person pays for them.
The expert is not going to be for everyone, but that package is marketed as their premium sled, with the color choice’s and added accs from the factory.
After I revalved my turbo G4, the suspension was a lot better and the negatives of the tmotion were less apparent.
It would be nice if these sleds were more customizable from the factory, especially what a person pays for them.
The expert is not going to be for everyone, but that package is marketed as their premium sled, with the color choice’s and added accs from the factory.
NOT EVERYONE, but there are a handful of us that see the Advantages and the Disadvantages more clearly now than before.
EXACTLY!
Just a FWIW Comment.
Sold the 2023 Gen 5 Turbo Expert over the weekend.
(It was just not the right sled for me)
Plan on SnowChecking 2 new Gen5 Summit-X Turbos and a Gen5 Summit SP come Spring.
In the meanwhile have a lead on both a 2023 Summit-X Turbo and a new holdover 2022 Summit Expert Turbo (which I am currently riding)
Will likely buy one or the other today..
Sold the 2023 Gen 5 Turbo Expert over the weekend.
(It was just not the right sled for me)
Plan on SnowChecking 2 new Gen5 Summit-X Turbos and a Gen5 Summit SP come Spring.
In the meanwhile have a lead on both a 2023 Summit-X Turbo and a new holdover 2022 Summit Expert Turbo (which I am currently riding)
Will likely buy one or the other today..
You don't waste time.
Our season is SHORT, I want to be back on the snow riding as MUCH AS POSSIBLE before the dreaded SUMMER arrives!
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