Clutch/Helix Question

[gerrman]

This question is based on having a 09 D8 163, SLP pipe, 19/42, well vented, 10-66's, 150-340 primary stock secondary spring, 2 delrins, 8300-8350 rpm, 3000-5000'. What is the effect on the clutch/machine as you go up in initial helix angle from the stock 56/42/.36 to 58/42/.36, 60/42/.36, 62/42/.36 Second cut I would like to get in a 40* finish angle. Need to try and make a decision on a helix purchase. Have a set of Ron's weights that I will put in and try this weekend. Only have 100 miles on the machine so far. Thanks

 

[winter brew]

We did a 58/40.46 and it was a nice improvement....the steeper initial angle upshifts quicker (loads more off the line) and the 40 held more consistant RPM on the hill. Not sure how it'll be if you change arms also. I would do 1 thing at a time so you know what effect each change has.

 

[gerrman]

This question is based on having a 09 D8 163, SLP pipe, 19/42, well vented, 10-66's, 150-340 primary stock secondary spring, 2 delrins, 8300-8350 rpm, 3000-5000'. What is the effect on the clutch/machine as you go up in initial helix angle from the stock 56/42/.36 to 58/42/.36, 60/42/.36, 62/42/.36 Second cut I would like to get in a 40* finish angle. Need to try and make a decision on a helix purchase. Have a set of Ron's weights that I will put in and try this weekend. Only have 100 miles on the machine so far. Thanks

Anybody?????

 

[helisledder]

call Lee or rick at mountain magic 780 474 9400 they ride our alt and snow conditions good luck

 

[gerrman]

This question is based on having a 09 D8 163, SLP pipe, 19/42, well vented, 10-66's, 150-340 primary stock secondary spring, 2 delrins, 8300-8350 rpm, 3000-5000'. What is the effect on the clutch/machine as you go up in initial helix angle from the stock 56/42/.36 to 58/42/.36, 60/42/.36, 62/42/.36 Second cut I would like to get in a 40* finish angle. Need to try and make a decision on a helix purchase. Have a set of Ron's weights that I will put in and try this weekend. Only have 100 miles on the machine so far. Thanks

Looking for input based on the above info and the results of yesterdays ride. Rode in about 1.5' of powder. Stock helix was in 56/42/.36. Checked clutch temps three times. They were nice and cool. Could keep my hand on secondary and belt no problem. Was pulling 8300-8400 rpm all day. Put 75 miles on. The sled ran like a rocket ship. I can not believe the difference between this one and my '08 D8. I ran my 62/42/.46 helix two weeks ago in similar snow, secondary clutch ran HOT, why? Where should I go with the clutch set up now? I want to work towards an overall pull the rope and go setup. Thanks.

 

[theultrarider]

Pm AKSNOWRIDER. He has done alot of playing with the d8 clutching and should be able to point you in the right direction. Sounds like you have it pretty close if your clutches are cool enough to hold on to.

 

[Junkshow]

I have had good luck with the 58-38. 42. I have tried the 62-40, a 62-42, and a 58-40. I am running close to your clutch setup just different weights. I had the same problem with clutches running hot with the 62 but the 58 I lost that heat.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

if your getting heat just from the bigger helix it means its slipping...its gonna need more secondary spring pressure...which means you will have to also add more weight to balance it out so it doesnt over rev..gerry yours is on the 2010 update right?Could be the update has changed what it will pull...dang it need to get mine on the snow and do some testing....

 

[karnedge]

This question is based on having a 09 D8 163, SLP pipe, 19/42, well vented, 10-66's, 150-340 primary stock secondary spring, 2 delrins, 8300-8350 rpm, 3000-5000'. What is the effect on the clutch/machine as you go up in initial helix angle from the stock 56/42/.36 to 58/42/.36, 60/42/.36, 62/42/.36 Second cut I would like to get in a 40* finish angle. Need to try and make a decision on a helix purchase. Have a set of Ron's weights that I will put in and try this weekend. Only have 100 miles on the machine so far. Thanks

what are you looking to get out of your clutching? if you go to steep helix(58 -64ish). it will pull hard off the line but can trench bad to..im kinda new to clutch tuning and dont care to spend money on things that some guys like but i may not.i think rons wieght will be a good start. i was going that way when a buddy gave me a 62-42.46 helix from my 58-42.46.. (i run 62g weights) it pulls good and revs right where it should for my mods. but i would like to know what rons weights would do for me or..mtx .. just try to find out what you want from your clutching.. hope this helps

 

[thefullmonte]

With the steeper initial angle you will have less belt pressure in the secondary. It will up shift very quickly allowing your primary to get into a more usable gear so to speak. The problem with the 10 series weight IMO is that it lacks in initial engagement. Not enough side force is generated allowing the primary to slip. Which is why some people like the steeper angle. This allows the primary to shift through that range very quickly to where the weight is more effective.
This all depends on your riding style and weight set up. If your sheaves are getting hot with the steeper angle I'm going to guess you are doing a fair amount of boon docking and crawling. It sounds like the stock secondary helix was working good for you. I know people like to change things, but that isn't a bad setup. Talk with Ron about his weights. You may also check into something like the MTX or Heavy Hitters. These are designed for more initial belt squeeze.

 

[gerrman]

if your getting heat just from the bigger helix it means its slipping...its gonna need more secondary spring pressure...which means you will have to also add more weight to balance it out so it doesnt over rev..gerry yours is on the 2010 update right?Could be the update has changed what it will pull...dang it need to get mine on the snow and do some testing....

Yes, I do have the 2010 update from 0 miles. Should I try the 62 helix again to confirm clutch heat? If it is pulling the RPM that it is, I wonder what effect Ron's weights will have? They are supposed to help load the engine more are they not? I would also assume that the set I have would RPM the same because they are 66 grams like the 10-66's. What is the connection with more secondary spring pressure and needing more primary weight then? To try and answer Karnages' question of what I want in the clutch, Thsis engine update certainly seems to have given more power and I would like to harness that the best I (and everybody else) can without investing huge amounts of money(helixs, springs, weights etc.). A pull the rope and go situation. I am not looking for the utimate setup. Don't need it, don't want it. Hopefully what I end up with here over the next few weeks works well and will allow me to pass that info on to everybody else. I feel that these machines with the 2010 update are going to be just fine.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Yes, I do have the 2010 update from 0 miles. Should I try the 62 helix again to confirm clutch heat? If it is pulling the RPM that it is, I wonder what effect Ron's weights will have? They are supposed to help load the engine more are they not? I would also assume that the set I have would RPM the same because they are 66 grams like the 10-66's. What is the connection with more secondary spring pressure and needing more primary weight then? To try and answer Karnages' question of what I want in the clutch, Thsis engine update certainly seems to have given more power and I would like to harness that the best I (and everybody else) can without investing huge amounts of money(helixs, springs, weights etc.). A pull the rope and go situation. I am not looking for the utimate setup. Don't need it, don't want it. Hopefully what I end up with here over the next few weeks works well and will allow me to pass that info on to everybody else. I feel that these machines with the 2010 update are going to be just fine.

Rons weights will load the bottom and midrange even more then the mtx's do..if the new update is running that good it may need to have more thrown at it...the stiffer spring will keep the secondary from opening so easy(more belt pinch) but it will cause the motor to pull more rpms as wellhense adding more sec spring will also need more weight to bring the r's back down..you might try the big helix again gerry, and really pay attention to which clutch is hottest...should be the secondary I would bet...you dont have a set of mtx's either do you gerry? I would like to see something with more heal weight then the 10s to get it hooked harder down low....

 

[karnedge]

i geuss what i ment was what kind of riding do you do most? trails? then you may want a hard off the line pull and midrange. hill climb would be softer off the start so it dont dig but want good track speed..talk to ron on here he is a good guy and his weights are a good cheep way to start.(wieghts about hafe the cost of a helix) you can call carls tell them what you got(mods) and what your riding style and they can set you up with a bolt on set up..

 

[gerrman]

i geuss what i ment was what kind of riding do you do most? trails? then you may want a hard off the line pull and midrange. hill climb would be softer off the start so it dont dig but want good track speed..talk to ron on here he is a good guy and his weights are a good cheep way to start.(wieghts about hafe the cost of a helix) you can call carls tell them what you got(mods) and what your riding style and they can set you up with a bolt on set up..

The usual mix of things, mostly boondocking though. Little to none long steep climbing. No trail stuff. I have a set of weights from Ron. Have not tried them yet. They are 66 grams in overall weight. Another question though, what will a 40* final cut on the helix do for the clutch?
Team makes a 58/42/.36...58/40/.36 helix. This is one I am considering.

 

[thefullmonte]

The 40* finish angle will give more belt side pressure. Slower up shift and quicker back shift. Assuming everything else has stayed the same. You can achieve about the same thing with a stiffer finish rate spring. If you are mostly boon docking I would shy away from the steep initial angle.
If it was me I would start with the stock secondary setup and put in Ron's weights.
It you haven't already check out Aksnowrider's thread in the increasing your IQ sticky at the top of the page.
Also here is the a link to the team clutch calculator. Mess around with that a bit to see what different helix and spring options change side force etc.

Keep in mind the the sheave angles of your secondary clutch has the most belt squeeze early on and the primary sheave angle is exactly the opposite. It has the most belt squeeze at final shift out. You want your clutching to compensate for this.