can't see where she says was riding alone..??...for sure stuck and not being able to get her sled out alone....but seems like if she had injuries there was others that helped...thats just my comprehension of her post...i could be wrong..
Christopher's Easter Weekend Rescue (or what not to do in a blizzard)
- Thread starter christopher
- Start date
can't see where she says was riding alone..??...for sure stuck and not being able to get her sled out alone....but seems like if she had injuries there was others that helped...thats just my comprehension of her post...i could be wrong..
It was a regular trail that is very popular and a main access to all the better mountain riding terrain.
When I was on it, it hadn't been groomed in several weeks, and no longer existed as a trail, it was a series of several hundred drifts that varied from 1ft upwards to 8ft, where you would ride up and down from one to the next.
I suppose by the time we got to the top of the trail, given the snow conditions and the weather, it was mountain riding just as much as being off the trail anywhere else.
We did have 2 shovels with us, and we used both to the point where I was sure we had many many more hours of digging before I could extricate all of the sleds to ride back down the mountain. My chief concern at the time was that if we stayed and kept working on them, it would take us into the night. And given the bad weather, I did not want to get caught up on the exposed mountain at night.
You are right! I misread her post. She said "unable", and I read it as "able". This is a perfect example of how a simple mistake can totally lead you down the wrong path. Good thing I'm not out riding tonight.
E
EagleRiverDee
Well-known member
Wow, I just popped in after several weeks of not reading, to find this.
First, Christopher, it took courage to post this, so kudos to you for that. You knew you'd get razzed, and you have, but it also looks like a lot of folks respect you for being willing to eat that humble pie.
This is my assessment of what you had to say, for what it's worth. First, I hope you will consider riding with one or two very capable riders in the future, particularly if you have less experienced riders along. When I go out, I know my limitations and I ride with a group and the size of the group is directly related to the experience of the group. Two kids are not the help that two experienced men would be. Like you, sledding this year was a wake up call that I am not in the shape I should be in and I've been working on that myself because I need to be as self-reliant as I can when stuck, plus other people I ride with may depend on me being able to help them.
The biggest mistake I felt you made was splitting your group. That is something I NEVER would have done with a small group like that, and particularly with kids. It sounds as though you have winter survival experience but the kids didn't. Leaving them in what might have turned into a survival situation was a bad idea. You got stuck the first time- you could not know you would not get stuck the second time. Your list said you had a PLB and a GPS...and apparently you had a cell signal. If you couldn't get all 3 sleds out, I feel it would have been more prudent to text your GPS coordinates and tell the wife you're hunkering down and waiting with the kids.
The second bad feeling I got- and no one else said anything about this so maybe it isn't as bad as it sounded...but you said you're riding to the top of a mountain in exposed treeless terrain in a snowstorm? I guess I'm curious whether you were danger of avalanche. I hope that what I don't know is that the terrain wasn't steep enough to avy or something but it's hard to tell from your post. You didn't mention whether the three of you were wearing beacons, or if you did I don't recall seeing it.
The things I thought you did right- you got the kids out of the wind. You called SAR early. You went back for the kids. You kept in touch with your wife, and your son's friend kept in touch with his Dad.
As to the prayer- I'm with you on that. Some people may make fun but I pray before each outing because I know ultimately that the back country is dangerous and even in the best of conditions something may go wrong- I always ask the Lord to look out for us while we're out there and keep us from harm. And I think it's great that you were willing to share that as well.
Thanks for the post. Any of us might say we'd have done this or that differently but bottom line you gave us a "teachable moment" to think about and that's a good thing as you all made it out ok. Even when people disagree, what you've succeeded in doing is getting everyone to think "That could have happened to me...what would I have done?" They might pack differently or opt to ride with one more experienced person or buy a SPOT or whatever just due to having read your post. For myself personally I learned some new self-rescue techniques that I had never heard of like the fishing line through the throttle and the highlift. That's valuable. Thanks.
First, Christopher, it took courage to post this, so kudos to you for that. You knew you'd get razzed, and you have, but it also looks like a lot of folks respect you for being willing to eat that humble pie.
This is my assessment of what you had to say, for what it's worth. First, I hope you will consider riding with one or two very capable riders in the future, particularly if you have less experienced riders along. When I go out, I know my limitations and I ride with a group and the size of the group is directly related to the experience of the group. Two kids are not the help that two experienced men would be. Like you, sledding this year was a wake up call that I am not in the shape I should be in and I've been working on that myself because I need to be as self-reliant as I can when stuck, plus other people I ride with may depend on me being able to help them.
The biggest mistake I felt you made was splitting your group. That is something I NEVER would have done with a small group like that, and particularly with kids. It sounds as though you have winter survival experience but the kids didn't. Leaving them in what might have turned into a survival situation was a bad idea. You got stuck the first time- you could not know you would not get stuck the second time. Your list said you had a PLB and a GPS...and apparently you had a cell signal. If you couldn't get all 3 sleds out, I feel it would have been more prudent to text your GPS coordinates and tell the wife you're hunkering down and waiting with the kids.
The second bad feeling I got- and no one else said anything about this so maybe it isn't as bad as it sounded...but you said you're riding to the top of a mountain in exposed treeless terrain in a snowstorm? I guess I'm curious whether you were danger of avalanche. I hope that what I don't know is that the terrain wasn't steep enough to avy or something but it's hard to tell from your post. You didn't mention whether the three of you were wearing beacons, or if you did I don't recall seeing it.
The things I thought you did right- you got the kids out of the wind. You called SAR early. You went back for the kids. You kept in touch with your wife, and your son's friend kept in touch with his Dad.
As to the prayer- I'm with you on that. Some people may make fun but I pray before each outing because I know ultimately that the back country is dangerous and even in the best of conditions something may go wrong- I always ask the Lord to look out for us while we're out there and keep us from harm. And I think it's great that you were willing to share that as well.
Thanks for the post. Any of us might say we'd have done this or that differently but bottom line you gave us a "teachable moment" to think about and that's a good thing as you all made it out ok. Even when people disagree, what you've succeeded in doing is getting everyone to think "That could have happened to me...what would I have done?" They might pack differently or opt to ride with one more experienced person or buy a SPOT or whatever just due to having read your post. For myself personally I learned some new self-rescue techniques that I had never heard of like the fishing line through the throttle and the highlift. That's valuable. Thanks.
Thanks for the comments.
The Avalanche danger should have been pretty minimal, perhaps even non-existent at all where we were riding in the treeless portion as the slope is very mild on the uphill of the mountain side. Most of the steep portion of the trail is on the downhill side that drops away.
Leaving the boys to make the run down WAS without a doubt that hardest call for me to make. And as everyone has clearly pointed out it was a significant risk, one that in hindsight was shown to me to be even higher than I realized at the time when I arrived back 25 minutes later.
The Avalanche danger should have been pretty minimal, perhaps even non-existent at all where we were riding in the treeless portion as the slope is very mild on the uphill of the mountain side. Most of the steep portion of the trail is on the downhill side that drops away.
Leaving the boys to make the run down WAS without a doubt that hardest call for me to make. And as everyone has clearly pointed out it was a significant risk, one that in hindsight was shown to me to be even higher than I realized at the time when I arrived back 25 minutes later.
2
2fun4u
Well-known member
Wow! Where have I been? I just read this whole thing and man, Christopher, you are to be commended for posting this and taking all the comments/suggestions/ribbing with good humor.
So many things have been said and posted. Guess i'll add my 2 cents:
1) What did your wife do with the information you sent her? Do you have a plan in place with her as to what she should do in a case like this? Who she would call? How long does she wait? I would suggest talking with her about this and figuring out how she plays into the scenario.
In Boise, there is a pretty good group of people who all know each other. Though we don't ride together, we have a rescue plan in place that has a calling tree and a list of who has what equipment and who knows which areas best. Thank God, we haven't had to use it, but it is there and we could have sleds out in a rescue situation in a short time!
2) I agree with EVERYONE who said "Never split up!!!" We ride with one VERY IMPORTANT rule!!! Nobody goes anywhere alone! Period! End of discussion! I don't care if your sled is broken and we are on a very well groomed trail - YOU NEVER KNOW what will happen and the most important thing for me when riding is that everyone gets home alive.
3) Why only 2 shovels with 3 riders? EVERYONE should have their own gear. In your situation, it seems as though some good shoveling skills and a little throttle would have gone a long way. Remember, if you get everyone off of their sleds and shoveling, not only does this keep you all warm, it makes this effort much easier.
4) Fire!!!! This is basic cub scout stuff! And, not only does the fire help alleviate some of the bad thoughts when you start getting cold, the act of gathering the firewood helps keep a body warm! And if there are no trees, gotta think outside the box.....yep, my $12,000 sled would be the first thing to go up in flames if it came down to it. Maybe piece by piece, but i'd light the whole thing on fire rather than freeze or have someone I love freeze on a mountain.
I am glad you posted this as it gives us all much to think about. Thank you for that.
You are on the road to learning more about sledding and getting the experience you need. Good for you.
So many things have been said and posted. Guess i'll add my 2 cents:
1) What did your wife do with the information you sent her? Do you have a plan in place with her as to what she should do in a case like this? Who she would call? How long does she wait? I would suggest talking with her about this and figuring out how she plays into the scenario.
In Boise, there is a pretty good group of people who all know each other. Though we don't ride together, we have a rescue plan in place that has a calling tree and a list of who has what equipment and who knows which areas best. Thank God, we haven't had to use it, but it is there and we could have sleds out in a rescue situation in a short time!
2) I agree with EVERYONE who said "Never split up!!!" We ride with one VERY IMPORTANT rule!!! Nobody goes anywhere alone! Period! End of discussion! I don't care if your sled is broken and we are on a very well groomed trail - YOU NEVER KNOW what will happen and the most important thing for me when riding is that everyone gets home alive.
3) Why only 2 shovels with 3 riders? EVERYONE should have their own gear. In your situation, it seems as though some good shoveling skills and a little throttle would have gone a long way. Remember, if you get everyone off of their sleds and shoveling, not only does this keep you all warm, it makes this effort much easier.
4) Fire!!!! This is basic cub scout stuff! And, not only does the fire help alleviate some of the bad thoughts when you start getting cold, the act of gathering the firewood helps keep a body warm! And if there are no trees, gotta think outside the box.....yep, my $12,000 sled would be the first thing to go up in flames if it came down to it. Maybe piece by piece, but i'd light the whole thing on fire rather than freeze or have someone I love freeze on a mountain.
I am glad you posted this as it gives us all much to think about. Thank you for that.
You are on the road to learning more about sledding and getting the experience you need. Good for you.
Thanks for your comments.
#1, Wife.
Since we were not doing any back country sledding, and just trail riding, there was no specific plan for this trip, other than that we were to be back home that day by 5:00pm.
We had no "calling tree", but I am building one now!!
#2. Splitting Up.
Everyone here agrees with you.
When I put my son on his sled to send him down the mountain he swapped out his pack with his friend. That left me and the other young man with all the gear, and got my son down to meet the rescue team.
I suppose I looked at it like this.
If I had to spend the night on the mountain because S&R wasn't going to be able to make it, I would rather have done so with just myself and the other young man. He was in much better shape to spend the night up high in the storm with me than my son was. S&R told me they would be delayed for at least a couple hours do to the storm and could not give me a hard time when they could lend assistance. Obviously they suggested "self-rescue" to the greatest extent possible. So when I sent my son down off the mountain, we started the long walk down, just in case they never arrived.
#3, Shovels.
We dug to the point of exhaustion.
Between the altitude, the wind, the snow, the cold, ect., I was beat.
Pure and simple, for all the exercise I had done getting ready for this season, I was NOT in good enough shape when put to the test. I just ran out of air, and even the walk down was HARD work for me.
#4, Fire.
The thought of torching the sleds never crossed my mind.
But I had told the boys that they could go back to the sleds, remove the cowling, start the engines and drap the blanket over the sled to get warm.
With the read exhaust on the Yammi's they could stay toasty warm right next to the sled for many many hours while it idled.
#1, Wife.
Since we were not doing any back country sledding, and just trail riding, there was no specific plan for this trip, other than that we were to be back home that day by 5:00pm.
We had no "calling tree", but I am building one now!!
#2. Splitting Up.
Everyone here agrees with you.
When I put my son on his sled to send him down the mountain he swapped out his pack with his friend. That left me and the other young man with all the gear, and got my son down to meet the rescue team.
I suppose I looked at it like this.
If I had to spend the night on the mountain because S&R wasn't going to be able to make it, I would rather have done so with just myself and the other young man. He was in much better shape to spend the night up high in the storm with me than my son was. S&R told me they would be delayed for at least a couple hours do to the storm and could not give me a hard time when they could lend assistance. Obviously they suggested "self-rescue" to the greatest extent possible. So when I sent my son down off the mountain, we started the long walk down, just in case they never arrived.
#3, Shovels.
We dug to the point of exhaustion.
Between the altitude, the wind, the snow, the cold, ect., I was beat.
Pure and simple, for all the exercise I had done getting ready for this season, I was NOT in good enough shape when put to the test. I just ran out of air, and even the walk down was HARD work for me.
#4, Fire.
The thought of torching the sleds never crossed my mind.
But I had told the boys that they could go back to the sleds, remove the cowling, start the engines and drap the blanket over the sled to get warm.
With the read exhaust on the Yammi's they could stay toasty warm right next to the sled for many many hours while it idled.
hey chris, when you guys dug till exhaustion..from what I gathered from all (your post on this story)..you guys should have stopped, made a quicky shelter to get out of the wind, and gotten both food and water in you...both are critical to keeping energy, body heat and strength up ...may have made a difference in getting sleds unstuck/dugout and not being able to..there is no way you were going to walk off the hill..that would have taken far more energy then digging sleds out......good info to file away for the future...hydration is critical for warmth and energy in the cold..you should consume enough water to pee at least once every hour...all day long....when in the cold...
Water we HAD in 2 camel Packs.
None of us were going without fluid up on top.
I don't remember breaking out anything to munch on, though we did have food in the packs.
The walk down was just to get off the exposed part of the mountain.
It took 2 hours to walk back down into the trees.
If we were going to spend the night on the mountain I would have been comfortable doing it once we got back into the trees and out of the exposed hillside and wind.
None of us were going without fluid up on top.
I don't remember breaking out anything to munch on, though we did have food in the packs.
The walk down was just to get off the exposed part of the mountain.
It took 2 hours to walk back down into the trees.
If we were going to spend the night on the mountain I would have been comfortable doing it once we got back into the trees and out of the exposed hillside and wind.
I'm a flat lander started going out west with a group of others that had never been out so we've learned on our own basically a lot of reading and talking to other riders learning from the more experienced people we've read with along with learning from our mistakes so I hear you there.
Just wanted to add you say you sent your son down without a pack being you kept it. Just want to add the what if something would have happened to him on the way down he would have been without gear. One of the stories that sticks in my head from when I first joined this forum was the guy that fell off the edge of the cliff he had lots of gear but some was in his sled he couldn't get to it. Had to spend the night and it sounded like it would have gone easier if he would have had it all on him. Our rule is we all carry survival stuff we would need on us and the sled recovery stuff ect stays on the sleds shared between us.
Also I suggest practicing starting a fire in a winter environment we had a situation this winter we got ourselves into lesson learned don't drop down anything tell you know how to get back up it. Anyway half the group was at the top and It was getting late and cold so we started a fire for a couple reasons stay warm, practice, and something to do. Anyway we learned its a lot harder then we thought to get it going and keep it going. We will bringing something like Vaseline soaked cotton balls next time and we managed to break one saw in the time we were waiting.
Anyway thanks for sharing, hope you learned from your mistakes as we all have done in the past. Remember always take mother nature seriously.
Just wanted to add you say you sent your son down without a pack being you kept it. Just want to add the what if something would have happened to him on the way down he would have been without gear. One of the stories that sticks in my head from when I first joined this forum was the guy that fell off the edge of the cliff he had lots of gear but some was in his sled he couldn't get to it. Had to spend the night and it sounded like it would have gone easier if he would have had it all on him. Our rule is we all carry survival stuff we would need on us and the sled recovery stuff ect stays on the sleds shared between us.
Also I suggest practicing starting a fire in a winter environment we had a situation this winter we got ourselves into lesson learned don't drop down anything tell you know how to get back up it. Anyway half the group was at the top and It was getting late and cold so we started a fire for a couple reasons stay warm, practice, and something to do. Anyway we learned its a lot harder then we thought to get it going and keep it going. We will bringing something like Vaseline soaked cotton balls next time and we managed to break one saw in the time we were waiting.
Anyway thanks for sharing, hope you learned from your mistakes as we all have done in the past. Remember always take mother nature seriously.
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Next season I will have 3 identical packs, one for each of the sleds I own, regardless of who is riding them.
Since I had ridden back down the "challenging" portion of the trail, and from then on was just FLAT easy trail, I was pretty confident he would be OK.
And I was also walking behind him on the way down the mountain.
If he had gotten himself stuck, we would have arrived within the next couple hours.
But all in all, there were plenty of mistakes, all of which can and will be prevented by better preparation for next season!!
Since I had ridden back down the "challenging" portion of the trail, and from then on was just FLAT easy trail, I was pretty confident he would be OK.
And I was also walking behind him on the way down the mountain.
If he had gotten himself stuck, we would have arrived within the next couple hours.
But all in all, there were plenty of mistakes, all of which can and will be prevented by better preparation for next season!!
Always remember anything can happen and a couple hours can be a long time in the winter especially without gear.
YA!
That was the reason we were trying to get OFF the top of that mountain!
How does that saying go once again.
Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
I WILL do better from now on!!
thats a pretty good thought..actually real good....but is there any danger of a big enough exhaust leak out the ypipe doughnut to gas a person..??...maybe one person at a time with the other on the outside keeping a watchful eye..??
hmmm
Given that it's a Yamaha, I am guessing they are into a lot of OVERKILL.
But, the real question I would see, is that given the WIND up there, would there be ANY way at all for them to have stopped ALL of the wind from getting in?
My guess is even if it was leaking a little bit, which someone will probably jump and tell us if it does, there might have been more than enough fresh air just blowing around to compensate???
Given that it's a Yamaha, I am guessing they are into a lot of OVERKILL.
But, the real question I would see, is that given the WIND up there, would there be ANY way at all for them to have stopped ALL of the wind from getting in?
My guess is even if it was leaking a little bit, which someone will probably jump and tell us if it does, there might have been more than enough fresh air just blowing around to compensate???
Pace yourself Christopher, were only going to
you about this for the next 5 to 10 years. That's if we forget about it quickly
.....
Ya, well, it will help to keep me humble.
....One of the stories that sticks in my head from when I first joined this forum was the guy that fell off the edge of the cliff he had lots of gear but some was in his sled he couldn't get to it. Had to spend the night and it sounded like it would have gone easier if he would have had it all on him.
I remember this one VERY well. Not enough rope to reach him, and a cold night spent on the mountain while being injured with no rescue until the next day.
We will bringing something like Vaseline soaked cotton balls next time and we managed to break one saw in the time we were waiting.
Tampons also work awesome!! Dip in the gas tank, they soak up lots of gas......and burn for a long time making sure your fire gets started. I've done that once out there, when I thought for sure we were spending the night, and was very impressed. I've also used during the day for a breakdown that the hubby was working on, so I got a fire going for us to warm up. Smart valves collapsed in a 1M Cat tank.....requires sticking an arm down to the bottom of the tank to grab the smart valves for temporary cleaning.(And yes, we were smart enough to make sure the hand/arm was clear of the fire and washed on with snow.)
This is what I carry.
WetFire Tinder
You’ve probably never seen anything like this! The perfect accompaniment to any fire starter, WetFire™ tinder can help you get a blaze going even in a downpour. In fact you will find, these amazing cubes actually burn longer when wet!
WetFire Tinder Videos
WetFire Tinder
You’ve probably never seen anything like this! The perfect accompaniment to any fire starter, WetFire™ tinder can help you get a blaze going even in a downpour. In fact you will find, these amazing cubes actually burn longer when wet!
WetFire Tinder Videos
its amazing what could happen that a person doesn;t want to...Murphys Law...the wind driving a substantial snow fall could have been the enemy and not the friend...it could drift the snow all around them huddled and reduce the venting more each minute...and ecapsulating them more in a cacoon without them knowing..
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