Chris Burandt Clutch Kit for new Matryx 850 including helix, thoughts?
- Thread starter rocdog
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Time to start a poll?
?LOL !! You will find Tony and I to be young at heart to say the least.
And Tony is WAY older then me - HeHeHe !
Well the truth is I don’t keep track of age so I am not really sure who is the oldest.
In do know who is the craziest and that is for sure Tony !
WFO Tony if you want a full day of an a$$ whooping it might start with a 11 mile race in the Pick-ups with the sleds on sled decks from his shop to the mountain…. I think I started to pull away from Tony at 96 Mph when his DuraMax Speed limited shut him down and my Ram took a slight lead. ( Thank God for speed limiters or we might all be dead. )
** THE ROAD IS NOT STRAIGHT BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION **
DAN
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Cheers Tony ! ( Hunting season is almost here ) Almost Horseback and Tent Season in the mountains.
Yes, Tony and I have been friends for a long long time ( And Tony’s cabin and riding area is one of my favorite spots in the entire country by far ) ?
Tony does not like break downs on the mountain and shop maintenance is top priority in His heated shop ?after riding ??.
I am in a completely different mode when I go to Tony’s place ( I go there to decompress from the Khaos ) I do not work on my sled I try to never open the hood. I don’t mind wrenching on other peoples sleds on vacation but I absolutely despise working on my own. ?
I enjoy just sitting at the table watching the wrenches fly every night and reminiscing about what happened on the mountain that day…… And before I go to bed I say a little prayer to God hoping my sled breaks down soon so I can sit in the cabin and rest, relax and watch it snow. ?.
Tony is the only guy I know that holds the throttle WFO down hill on every mountain if tree spacing permits ( It’s true ) and WFO on the trail to and from the trucks ……. Everyday ?
oh, and when you get back Tony insists you unload your sleds and put them in the shop for a warm up and thaw down. ??? So much work I gotta stop bringing a sled. ?
Dan
Just for everyone’s information.
The C stands for Carbon.
If your clutch’s are to far out of alignment carbon will break.
If you back bend carbon it breaks.
You cannot put a carbon belt in the Polaris belt holder. If you receive one that is back bent in the sleeve, it’s already junk.
Breakin is critical to get the adhesive to migrate into the rubber. Same as with a stock belt.
Tony and Dan are both competitive guys who know their stuff; can't go wrong either way. Being able to park your sled in a heated garage at night is a huge plus - lose all the ice weight gained during the day, it's easier on the equipment, and no excuse for not doing daily maintenance (not that any of us skip that). Guess I should start watching for a piece of land in N. Wyoming... I switched to all Gates belts around four years ago and haven't looked back. I keep my clutches aligned and always break in carefully per instructions. Polaris belts aren't bad, but Gates perform and last as well or better from what I've seen, and for a much nicer price. It's a no-brainer to me, but I can see where others would see it different if they had a bad experience.
I don't have a problem with one-size-fits-all clutch kits except that by the time you know enough judge whether a certain off-the-shelf kit is going the right direction over stock, for the conditions you ride in, your size/weight, and priorities, you probably know enough to just piece together your own. Some kits are probably borderline gimicky, forcing a hard engagement or quick backshift at the expense of overall performance, and some people do buy such things because Youtube said it's the best. I'd rather spend the same money on some adjustable weights, a few different springs, and a couple helixes to experiment with. Not that I'm ever going to be able to clutch a sled half as well as Tony or Dan, but my sleds run pretty well, and the tinkering and learning are part of the fun for me.
I don't have a problem with one-size-fits-all clutch kits except that by the time you know enough judge whether a certain off-the-shelf kit is going the right direction over stock, for the conditions you ride in, your size/weight, and priorities, you probably know enough to just piece together your own. Some kits are probably borderline gimicky, forcing a hard engagement or quick backshift at the expense of overall performance, and some people do buy such things because Youtube said it's the best. I'd rather spend the same money on some adjustable weights, a few different springs, and a couple helixes to experiment with. Not that I'm ever going to be able to clutch a sled half as well as Tony or Dan, but my sleds run pretty well, and the tinkering and learning are part of the fun for me.
I've had the same result with the Carbon series belts, great performance but short life when ran extremely hard. A couple years ago Gates began offering the G-Force Redline belt. So far my Redline 45R4553 has been indestructible with approximately 3,200 miles on it with very little wear (.006"). I've found the Redline and the sheaves do require occasional deglazing. I am hoping my original and only 45R4553 will run another season. I believe Tony has that belt in a custom size with a perfect matching sheave angle for the 850 (less break in time). I decided to try the Redline because the Polaris 215 would heat to the point of getting compound deposition on the sheaves after fast trail rides, or that 10 mile WOT run to the trailer, my sheaves would look like I spray painted them with black rubber, after a WOT run with the Redline they are squeaky clean and much cooler.
Wow, it was refreshing to hear IndyDan's comments. I agree with custom clutch kits (why should anyone share their ingredients?) , the importance of clutching and CB's abilities.
I was blown away that people felt that clutching doesn't matter. Maybe the comments were more along the lines of custom clutching isn't necessary. But I thought Polaris was shipping sleds with 10-64's (NA) for all mtn sleds now. Then you can pay your dealer to set you up or do it yourself. Us guys over 10k have to adjust from those stock weights one way or the other. I always shave my weights down. I've had as much as 1 gram difference between the lightest and heaviest of the three. I also send my primary to IndyDan or Carls to make sure it is balanced - perhaps that is overkill. Riding Polaris sleds for over 20 years, I can tell you dialing in clutching is hands down the best "mod" to your sled. I'm good with over revving at 8500' so that I'm in the sweet spot at 11,000' under load.
I was blown away that people felt that clutching doesn't matter. Maybe the comments were more along the lines of custom clutching isn't necessary. But I thought Polaris was shipping sleds with 10-64's (NA) for all mtn sleds now. Then you can pay your dealer to set you up or do it yourself. Us guys over 10k have to adjust from those stock weights one way or the other. I always shave my weights down. I've had as much as 1 gram difference between the lightest and heaviest of the three. I also send my primary to IndyDan or Carls to make sure it is balanced - perhaps that is overkill. Riding Polaris sleds for over 20 years, I can tell you dialing in clutching is hands down the best "mod" to your sled. I'm good with over revving at 8500' so that I'm in the sweet spot at 11,000' under load.
I should maybe quantify my disgust with the world of "custom clutching" Both Indy and TRS have provided more free info online then most guys sell you in their kit. I've run both of their systems with above average results, I've landed on TRS as my preferred system as although it is the most nuanced, it provides the best overall results for me and my preferences. Also Tony's willingness to explain the details and teach about the CVT system is what helped increase my ability to help others enjoy their riding experience more. I've also had Indy do rebuilds / balances on my worn clutches and bring them to an above OEM level of finished spec. I have nothing but respect for the work these guys do.
Also preference is no joke on clutching. While I LOVE my setups i've found I put guys on the sled who cant stand it. Not that it doesnt work well, they just do not enjoy the power delivery or are just not used to it so struggle to ride as well. So "best" is still subjective. My use of the term best is a quality power delivery with the least heat / fade / component wear as this provides the most consistent results from pull to pull and day to day.
My personal experience from almost 20 years of riding & wrenching transitioning from a complete newb of mechanical and riding skills to fairly seasoned in both regards has found one thing. The majority of riders don't know or care how anything works, they just want "better". They do not know what better is or how to even quantify it in any sort of real world results. So when every shop shows up with their 'secret' recipe for clutching that's the best in the world..... call me a bit skeptical. I've too often gotten kits that are virtually identical to OEM configurations or just repeats of other aftermarket kits as Dan mentioned and after being sold the same repackaged system. The amount of companies selling a rebranded what I would call the Carls Cycle clutching is disgusting. Again, as dan mentioned people copy and change the angle 1-2* on the start or finish or maybe plus or minus a few pounds on the spring rates, but ultimately its the same recipe that's been around since the dragon came out. Or my favorite is just provide a cool trade named weight which is a literal identical copy of the OEM 10 series weights and charge double.
Why I caution guys against throwing a clutch kit at their sleds before having any sort of baseline or routine maintenance done is as follows. For the last few seasons I've done fairly large amount of tunnel cuts on axys sleds. These sleds all consistently have $1-5k in other mods done to them so no just beater stockers. The one thing that I notice on nearly every machine when pulling in my shop is that the belt deflection is insanely loose and the belt is usually incredibly worn and should be reduced to a spare at best. When removing panels for work I find the sheaves are incredibly glazed, worn/missing roller bushings, and often primary springs are broken. Point being the general cross sections of sleds are at well below the OEM baseline for performance due to general neglect or lack of understanding of necessary service and upkeep.
Moral of the story: If a guy isn't capable of keeping his system in proper condition then the components of his clutch kit wont net qualty results either. I will give CB a lot of credit here, hes put some quality info on YouTube videos about this along with clutching for elevation properly and how massive the results can be. I say all this not from some holier then thou attitude as I was that guy for many years, but riding with so many people through the years that mod their sleds in a way that actually makes it function worse then stock is why I am such a critic of a LOT of mods and companies putting sales before quality product and helping make people have a better experience.
Also preference is no joke on clutching. While I LOVE my setups i've found I put guys on the sled who cant stand it. Not that it doesnt work well, they just do not enjoy the power delivery or are just not used to it so struggle to ride as well. So "best" is still subjective. My use of the term best is a quality power delivery with the least heat / fade / component wear as this provides the most consistent results from pull to pull and day to day.
My personal experience from almost 20 years of riding & wrenching transitioning from a complete newb of mechanical and riding skills to fairly seasoned in both regards has found one thing. The majority of riders don't know or care how anything works, they just want "better". They do not know what better is or how to even quantify it in any sort of real world results. So when every shop shows up with their 'secret' recipe for clutching that's the best in the world..... call me a bit skeptical. I've too often gotten kits that are virtually identical to OEM configurations or just repeats of other aftermarket kits as Dan mentioned and after being sold the same repackaged system. The amount of companies selling a rebranded what I would call the Carls Cycle clutching is disgusting. Again, as dan mentioned people copy and change the angle 1-2* on the start or finish or maybe plus or minus a few pounds on the spring rates, but ultimately its the same recipe that's been around since the dragon came out. Or my favorite is just provide a cool trade named weight which is a literal identical copy of the OEM 10 series weights and charge double.
Why I caution guys against throwing a clutch kit at their sleds before having any sort of baseline or routine maintenance done is as follows. For the last few seasons I've done fairly large amount of tunnel cuts on axys sleds. These sleds all consistently have $1-5k in other mods done to them so no just beater stockers. The one thing that I notice on nearly every machine when pulling in my shop is that the belt deflection is insanely loose and the belt is usually incredibly worn and should be reduced to a spare at best. When removing panels for work I find the sheaves are incredibly glazed, worn/missing roller bushings, and often primary springs are broken. Point being the general cross sections of sleds are at well below the OEM baseline for performance due to general neglect or lack of understanding of necessary service and upkeep.
Moral of the story: If a guy isn't capable of keeping his system in proper condition then the components of his clutch kit wont net qualty results either. I will give CB a lot of credit here, hes put some quality info on YouTube videos about this along with clutching for elevation properly and how massive the results can be. I say all this not from some holier then thou attitude as I was that guy for many years, but riding with so many people through the years that mod their sleds in a way that actually makes it function worse then stock is why I am such a critic of a LOT of mods and companies putting sales before quality product and helping make people have a better experience.
I'm still on a 2018 800 axys. I bought an SLP clutch kit and then reached out to Tony. He told me to try it and see what you think. If you don't like it or have problems let me know and i would do anything i can to help you. I'm honestly ok with it. Maybe because I don't know any better. This was in 2019.
I take my belt off and wash it in the sink every 2 rides. I also clean the clutches at the same times. That includes scotch brite, brake cleaner and compressed air. It takes 15-20 minuets. I grease the skid at the same time, another 3 minuets? my stuff seams to last a long time. my first belt lasted 1100 miles before i changed it. I'm 53 years old so I my not ride as hard as you guys but i believe maintenance plays a big part
Cascade clutch and performance in Bend, Oregon balanced my clutches and set it up from the beginning.
somewhere i have printouts of balace sheets and what they took out of where and why.
And honestly proper weight for your elevation, good alignment, proper belt to sheave and clean sheaves will probably gain you more results then a clutch kit. Wheelhouse Mororsports.
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Very true and verified.
My sleds can beat others by 50%. 25% is gearing and clutching and the other 25% is the other dudes sled has no maintenance, dirty clutches, old belt etc. haha
[/QUOTE]
Very true and verified.
My sleds can beat others by 50%. 25% is gearing and clutching and the other 25% is the other dudes sled has no maintenance, dirty clutches, old belt etc. haha
A wife or a sled?
