Burning Alpine Sleds!!!

[smwizzz]

Alpine Motorsports
Salmon Arm, BC​

So here is the thing.... it seems there is an issue with Alpine Motorsports Turbo's out of Salmon Arm, BC. I know of more than one that has burned. Recently my Alpine sled caught fire. They have a fuel cell issue... as I have discovered... they are still using the same part in their new builds. I never knew this was a problem until this happened to me, but once it did, I discovered it has happened before. They claim there is no liability on their part and will offer no help.

Just a warning!!! Do not buy Alpine!!! I don't know who is better but good alternates may be "Impulse" or "Powderlites" turbo sleds.

Many of my family and friends have ridden my sled and unknowingly been at risk. The guy who was riding it caught fire. It burned his pants and backpack!!! LUCKY he got the pack off and the pants out!!!

The cap on the back of the tank came loose and fuel poured out onto the track and when he crested the hill and backed out of the throttle the exhaust ignited the fuel on the track. I do not see any CSA, ANSI or other ratings on this tank. Guessing it is not Canadian approved for motor vehicles. Working on finding out.

I feel very lucky the guys were on the ball and flipped the sled on its side and buried it in snow with shovels and a couple sleds pulled up beside it and roosted it with snow untill it was completely buried. The damage could have been way worse!!!

If you pay close attention, the front of the tunnel, tank and turbo area are free of soot and sign of fire. I don't have a pic here but the inside of the tunnel is completely black. The seat burnt completely. We flipped the seat up and there was the cap.... just sitting there!!! Good thing the seat had this area contained as it may have blown fuel all over the rider when it ignited and really caused harm to him!!!

If you have Alpine or want one, make sure your life insurance is paid in advance and your sled insurance is up to date!!!

If you have an Alpine that burned or know of one that has please add to this site. I contacted Julian on the 10th of April, 2012 and filled him in. I am adding this info so if anyone decides to pursue the legalities it is documented here on snowest for all to see. I will stand beside you in a court of law and testify. All you have to do is contact me and I will be glad to assist you!!! I don't normally take things to the extreme but this is an extreme case. These guys know there is an issue and have no intention of fixing it, they just want your money and that is where it ends!!!

FYI!!!

Gonna post some pics for your info!!!

 

[smwizzz]

Oh Yeah...

FYI... I want to point out there are other brands in these pics that are not associated with Alpine and should not be held accountable. They are reputable buisiness owners and have worked hard to build their reputations and service to their customers. Please do not mistake them as associates of Alpine.

 

[smwizzz]

ttt

Yup another ttt. These guys remind me of Bruce at PSI. They are hot while it lasts but when the flame burns out... its all over but the crying!!!

 

[pelon]

I have the same setup and so far no issues. However, all your saying is that white cap is coming unscrewed---thats the hazard?


thanks for the warning

 

[TMP]

Put a bead of urethane around the cap. Chances are you'd never need too open it anyway.

 

[CANDYMAN]

Unless Alpine does all the work on your sled then how can they be at fault? It's obvious that cap was loose for a long time before it came off.
Turbo sleds are high maintenance so get used to it.
Do you work on your sled, or get a shop to do it? If a shop was the last ones to touch it then you may want to ask them if they checked it. Your sled would have had gas running all over before it was even started.

Not sure why everything these days is always somebody else's fault.

 

[Tuesday]

I have personally witnessed 2 Powderlites sleds catch fire and 1 mcx. 2 did minimal damage one got burned up pretty bad.

Regardless gas cap failures is never a good thing. Glad you salvaged most of the sled.

 

[roughrider99]

Alpine has always never did like a plastic gas tank so close to turbo, several alpine sleds have burned down over the years due to failure with exhaust and plastic tank.

 

[hotmail]

FYI... I want to point out there are other brands in these pics that are not associated with Alpine and should not be held accountable. They are reputable buisiness owners and have worked hard to build their reputations and service to their customers. Please do not mistake them as associates of Alpine.

Julian and dean at alpine have always been werry helpful to me and my friends here in norway. If there has been any problems they have done everything to help .i would buy their prod again. Nice people and good service.tod was altso great. A turbo sled needs spesial care ,you can not just ride it

 

[jsandgren10]

I think its good info to post about the burn down. At least others that run Alpine will know they have to remove their seat a lot to double check the white cap.

To me that is just dangerous and a bad design. That cap should secure like the fuel pump access does stock, with screws that bolt it down. If there is no real reason to access it on a normal basis it shouldn't just be a screw on.

There is no reason for it to unscrew itself under any circumstance, unless it wasn't secured to begin with. I don't consider this a "normal" maintenance check when owning a turbo. When I owned my impulse kit I never thought about having to remove the seat to check the pump assembly bolt down, I did check other things like fuel lines, coolent lines, rubbing, etc.

I don't know that any one person is at fault but I know if I owned Alpine I would be helping to make it right since Alpine does make the tank, supplies the seat, etc. and unless it was made known to check it occasionally when they have had others burn down in the past is just negligence. Just seems too many aftermarket companies help a lot to get you to buy their product and help troubleshoot things but if something goes down that will cost them money they will usually deny it. Not saying this is what happened or what the full story is but doesn't look real good to me.

Hopefully you get it straightened out and glad no one was really hurt, someone could have got burned real bad.

 

[paulharris]

i had an alpine kit several years ago on a vector. I never liked that gas tank. The quality of the tank was not good. it looked like it was made in someones backyard without the proper molding equpment. The pics of your tank although for a different sled resemble the same material and craftsmanship (lack) of the tank that i had. I remember a guy at big dawg shootout 5 years or so ago...his tank (alpine) sprung a leak on the trailer in the parking lot....it ruined his day but was better than it leaking while the sled was running and possibly starting a fire. HOWEVER, i could never find out who exactly makes the tanks. As i recall it was someone in Canada that makes them. At the time it was not only Alpine that was using these tanks....powderlites and Simons cpr in Wisconsin were also using the same tank from the same source in Canada. Maybee someone can clarify who actually made the tanks....whether its Alpine or someone else?

With that said, here is another side of this story. One can only imagine how difficult and costly it would be to properly make some of these custom "turbo tanks" for our snowmobiles. i am sure the tooling/mold cost to have a tank like this properly built and certified would be astronomical. i bet 50-100K would not be out of the question. So if it is a guy in his backyard making these i can understand why because the huge investment that would be needed for molds, tooling, testing etc. But it still does not make the poor quality acceptable. Perhaps they should forget the plastic idea and make them all out of aluminum.

 

[smwizzz]

Thanks for the comments!!!

All usefull comments peeps, thanks!!!

As far as letting me know about maintenance, you are talking to the wrong guy. I've been building custom stuff for years for IHRA, Snowmobile and Bike markets. Not once have I ever had a roll cage come apart or Harley chops come unwelded. I sponsor an IHRA top alcohol funny car and built the driver cage last year in my shop out of chromoly tubing. I bent a tunnel on one of my custom sleds once but honestly it was pure and simple abuse on my part. Not one of my tunnel extentions have ever come back from a customer for any reason. I have people coming to me on a regular basis for turbo parts and custom welding and fabrication from trucks and cars and jetboats to sleds and side by sides. I am not new to the industry.

I DO NOT fabricate fuel cells! I have at least 20 requests per season but they are turned away due to the liability issues and certifications required. Look at any jerry can, it is certified. Look at your slip tank / tidy tank in your truck, it is certified. There is an outfit in Vancouver that builds fuel cells that are certified and they are used largely in the boat industry. They are certified!!!

As far as someone elses fault goes, I am meerly pointing out the fact that once you build something, market it and sell it, there is liability and resposibility on the part of the manufacturer. This is something everyone should be aware of. The manufacturers are but fail to let anyone know this. It is the same as having employees. Did you know as an employer it is your responsibility to make your employees aware of company/corporate policies, proceedures and OHS/EHS regulations? It is very similar in the consumer market.

 

[smwizzz]

Info

K, I had my rant. This is more fyi than anything so now that I stirred the hornets nest lets keep it sane!!!

 

[Winter Nutz]

when i bought a MCX kit i knew that i would have to check the flexpipes and exhaust donuts every now and then, its part of the kit i bought. buying a Alpine kit comes with a home built gas tank. you knew that. possibly should check it every now and then. my buddy has a Alpine nytro and knew to glue the cap on a long time ago. just one of the things you gotta do with that kit.

 

[smwizzz]

Cap

Cap was glued. If you have ever had anything to do with the cap you would know it barely hangs on takes about 1/2 turn from inserted to tight. Bottom line shouldn't have to glue a threaded cap especially when it is NPT.

BTW the cap was tight when it left.

 

[hotmail]

Cap was glued. If you have ever had anything to do with the cap you would know it barely hangs on takes about 1/2 turn from inserted to tight. Bottom line shouldn't have to glue a threaded cap especially when it is NPT.

BTW the cap was tight when it left.

i would advise you to get it plastic welded, racefuel desolves everything, even fuel lines needs to be changed after 2.3 years . how old is the sled. if you knew about the cap, why did you not do anything?do you have to change allot to get it up and running again?fuel filters altso needs to be changed every year because of the racefuel.the injectors can get blocked.Hope it would not cost to mutch to make it 100% again

 

[smwizzz]

Thanks

Thanks for the advise. Franky I won't be running an Alpine tank. I do appreciate the advise on repairs however it is slightly off topic. I have achieved what I was after... making people aware of the risks of riding an Alpine turbo.

I respect your decisions to ride or not ride an Alpine. I am not disputing whether they work or not, I am simply pointing out the potential fire issue. If you believe having them service it makes all ok then so be it. If gluing the cap makes you feel secure so be it. Crawl on a bull if you feel the urge or jump off a cliff with no parachute... whatever you like.

Bottom line is there is an issue. The first one to make a legal issue of it will be the one who settles this debate. Honestly, I haven't ruled it out completely. I am just not sure I really need to put forth the effort. The time spent chasing BS and making a point can be much better spent keeping my men working, hence making me money.

I am p'd, make no mistake or I wouldn't have even wasted my energy here. Sometimes the principle is what makes things happen. In my opinion it would be just good buisiness to have made some form of effort to make this right. I was insulted by the lack of initiative.

I can build my own tunnel. I have CNC equipment that can duplicate the finest tunnels on the market. I have paint equipment to have the coolest paint job out there. I have everything nessecary to fix this rig myself. Probly gonna happen to some extent. The reason I purchased this sled in the first place is because my buisiness is busy and I really didn't feel the urge to build another one for the time being. This is the first sled I actually didn't build myself.

I think I may actually leave the burnt marks on the tunnel cause it is Alpines mark. I will probly do some decals describing the event and root cause and put them there for all to see. The tank and seat are the easy part. I will be fabbing some aluminum fire separation for the turbo. Probly should have been done by the makers insead of foil taping some fire retardant material together around the turbo. YUP another maintenance item for you all to consider.... Keep tabs on the tape job and make sure you have a roll of foil tape to keep it patched up. If this goes, the tank goes!!!

No fear!!! This Yammy will be back on the snow, just in a fire proof model.

 

[BigFish BC]

10 years running alpine kits no tank probs but thats just me.

 

[lida]

burn down

Obviously a big problem. I don't want my family burning up. Hats off to you, It's about time some one made people aware of this problem. Companies should be sending notices out to all the customers, and yes there is lots of liability there. Hope know one was hurt.

 

[powderlites]

Burning sleds

Quote:Private message to Tuesday
Originally Posted by powderlites
Can you give me the names of the guys with Powder Lites turbo sleds that catch on fire and from what?
I want to make sure there is no problems with sleds catching on fire. Thanks Dave Forsyth

Reply from Tuesday:
One was an oil line that was leaking and the fire did alot of damage. Basically melted all the electrical. Long story short we got it out and he re did everything and its working out.

The other one could actually happen on any nytro. In super deep snow or aggressive riding (powder donuts) snow will start to work its way into the brake lever and the brake does not fully release thus eventually the rotor becomes a fire source. You would think you would notice it but in deep snow it was not apparent. The sled it happened on is actually a sled builder and it took him a long time to figure what was happening. Now in deep snow we ride with a bit of tap over the brake. Sounds crazy but 6 of us that ride boosted nytros have all had it happen to different degrees.

The one that had the oil line leak I am not sure it if was a faulty fitting, bad instal or what. In the end any turbo that leaks oil will light up.

The last sled that caught fire was a boosted polaris and the end of the fuel rail started spraying fuel everywhere.

On my mcx the valve cover had a very small leak right where the charge tube goes by and it was leaking a small amount of oil onto the heat shield and it ignited a very small fire but it took me a long time to figure exactly what the problem was.

Hope that helps, happy boosting!
__________________
08 MCX-Nytro

I just want to clear the air.

Tuesday you implied that 2 of the sleds you saw burn was because of Powdder Lites Turbos. We have not had a single customer call us because of a fire caused by our kits. What you have now told me is that the reason for these sleds burning actually had nothing to do with the fact they had Powder Lites Turbos.

What you should have posted was the extra info about the problems in order to help guys out, as that is what these forums are meant for, not for bashing products with only part of the facts.

Powder Lites has not used fittings on top of turbos for years and we only use direct oil lines built into the end of the turbo oil hose that shouldn't crack or leak causing fire.

As you have now said the second one was because of a brake issue which could have happened on any Nytro or Apex regarless if it had a turbo or not.

If you have any problems or concerns with one of our turbos please call, email or PM us as we want to help our customers resolve any issues.