BURANDTS 355 LB 165", NON-TURBO, AXYS-RMK.... (Video)

[Spaarky]

Bwahahahahaha the direction this thread has taken is hilarious. Couple things.

JJ... Your numbers are off. First off a real world numbers, a sidekick or silber are going to struggle to make 200. REAL WORLD hp. 408lbs.... Adding a turbo to a sled it's pretty difficult to stick with stick dry weight.

Then you take your $1000 schwanky suspension...... There is only way to stay under $1000 and be successful; it's not what you are thinking.

Here is real world experience. Jenny Craig properly tuned and set up, which it is.... Will give turbo sleds fits all day long. You take Jenny Craig with the suspension it has... And set up. It will get up on the snow a 100x better than a stockish turbo sled with schwanky suspension. I have seen it many times. Jenny will be floating while the turbo digs holes.

Given the choice and money, I would take Jenny Craig all day long.

 

[JJ_0909]

JJ, you're right, my numbers are off. Jenny Craig is Stage 4 mods.
I need to up my 145 to about 165.
That decreases the difference in HP to weight ratios between the two.

165 at 10k?!

Ha. Good luck.

If you guys are so right about this why'd burandt even build a turbo sled?

I mean no disrespect, again, I just think it's funny how you guys are choosing to look at what I'm writing...

 

[JJ_0909]

Bwahahahahaha the direction this thread has taken is hilarious. Couple things.

JJ... Your numbers are off. First off a real world numbers, a sidekick or silber are going to struggle to make 200. REAL WORLD hp. 408lbs.... Adding a turbo to a sled it's pretty difficult to stick with stick dry weight.

Then you take your $1000 schwanky suspension...... There is only way to stay under $1000 and be successful; it's not what you are thinking.

Here is real world experience. Jenny Craig properly tuned and set up, which it is.... Will give turbo sleds fits all day long. You take Jenny Craig with the suspension it has... And set up. It will get up on the snow a 100x better than a stockish turbo sled with schwanky suspension. I have seen it many times. Jenny will be floating while the turbo digs holes.

Given the choice and money, I would take Jenny Craig all day long.

$1000 covers the cost of some assualt suspension resized and revalve for the sled. It also covers the cost of a coupler. So yeah. It'll work well. And yeah, it's as "swanky" as anything out there from a performance standpoint. I know, I ride it.

Okay so let's say "413 pounds?". turbo isn't adding much over stock....

I get your point, the light sled willl get on snow fast. And I never said it wouldn't be a cool sled to ride

All I'm saying is at double the price it's not double the capable sled. I get whoever buys it is buying it for the wow factor too, but while you all froth at the mouth over some weight reduction that may or may not prove durable I was implying "hey I bet a cheap turbo would run wth this thing at elevation". Something I still believe.

I think a lot of it has to do with conditions too. 3 feet of new snow? Turbo. Soft but not super deep? Sure this thing will rip and keep rider farigue to a minimum.

Again, it's cool to see what he tried here but until its this light and putting out turbo horse at elevation I say "meh".

 

[Spaarky]

Jenny Craig will out perform a turbo sled with .....mehhhh, assault reworked suspension all day long. JC will get up on the snow so much better. The turbo will dig.... JC will float, I have seen it first hand many times. You don't understand how well a properly set up sled like JC actually works.

HP isn't always King. JC is worth every penny. 350 lbs would be killer fun. Think how much easier a Pro or Axys is to ride than a Dragon. 50-75 lbs in a sled is huge.

 

[JJ_0909]

Jenny Craig will out perform a turbo sled with .....mehhhh, assault reworked suspension all day long. JC will get up on the snow so much better. The turbo will dig.... JC will float, I have seen it first hand many times. You don't understand how well a properly set up sled like JC actually works.

HP isn't always King. JC is worth every penny. 350 lbs would be killer fun. Think how much easier a Pro or Axys is to ride than a Dragon. 50-75 lbs in a sled is huge.

That's why I made my fuel point.

I don't see my sled getting up on the snow THAT much quicker or better when near empty than when I'm full of gas. That is a difference of that 50 pounds you speak of. My sled rides better when near empty, but its nowhere near the difference of turbo vs no turbo.

And yeah, I know how to setup suspension. I also know how suspension works better than most (I come from a very competitive mountain bike background) and am happy to debate you as to why something like the Walker Evans Needles will go toe to toe with anything out there when setup properly.

Believe what you want. Again, why'd he build the turbo if this is so much better all the time?

Appreciate the debate but on this one we are agreeing to disagree.

EDIT: I do agree horse isn't always king. Its power to weight within reason.

 

[JJ_0909]

For fun - I figured I'd mention what I *DO* think is worth real money...just because I'm bored and this place has already becoming boring with the warm temps

What if someone built the same kind of sled as JC but engineered the turbo that Mountain Horse was talking about? High compression, low boost, 100% AV gas, ECB setup keeping MAP constant at all elevations. - try and push a real 195-200 horse at all elevations.

That would be worth freaking out over. And I think it could be done for marginal weight gains over something like this. You could use a reasonably small turbo, no intercooler, could make some of the parts out of super light materials. Then we are talking something that might be worth $30K+

It wouldn't be 355. But it might be 370, have virtually no turbo lag and absolutely crush just about anything out there in tight technical crazy steep tree riding.

My $0.02.

 

[NorthMNSledder]

For fun - I figured I'd mention what I *DO* think is worth real money...just because I'm bored and this place has already becoming boring with the warm temps

What if someone built the same kind of sled as JC but engineered the turbo that Mountain Horse was talking about? High compression, low boost, 100% AV gas, ECB setup keeping MAP constant at all elevations. - try and push a real 195-200 horse at all elevations.

That would be worth freaking out over. And I think it could be done for marginal weight gains over something like this. You could use a reasonably small turbo, no intercooler, could make some of the parts out of super light materials. Then we are talking something that might be worth $30K+

It wouldn't be 355. But it might be 370, have virtually no turbo lag and absolutely crush just about anything out there in tight technical crazy steep tree riding.

My $0.02.

How about 378lbs? I have not seen the build sheet on this one yet but I thought there were very close except for the turbo set-up on one and the Stage 4 on the other.

http://shop.burandtsbackcountryadventure.com/product/ludachris-2017-axys-rmk-800-163-turbo

 

[NorthMNSledder]

Found it....

 

[JJ_0909]

Found it....

That'll do! Didn't realize he built this thing nearly the same way...

 

[AKFULLTHROTTLE]

It costs a lot of money to make your girl as custom as these! I would take Ludachris over JC anyday...

Silber setup on my Axys added right at 2# over my stock setup. If one wanted to try and run a pipe I am sure they could get that weight back down but 2# for an increase like that is a no brain IMO.

I am sitting at about $26,500 now with no labor cost and no fancy suspension upgrades. No one would purchase mine right now for close to that but I like doing it.

 

[aksledjunkie]

I figure if I can make what I paid for the sled I'll chalk the aftermarket goodies up to feeding the addiction.

 

[Jaynelson]

That's why I made my fuel point.

I don't see my sled getting up on the snow THAT much quicker or better when near empty than when I'm full of gas. That is a difference of that 50 pounds you speak of. My sled rides better when near empty, but its nowhere near the difference of turbo vs no turbo.

And yeah, I know how to setup suspension. I also know how suspension works better than most (I come from a very competitive mountain bike background) and am happy to debate you as to why something like the Walker Evans Needles will go toe to toe with anything out there when setup properly.

Believe what you want. Again, why'd he build the turbo if this is so much better all the time?

Appreciate the debate but on this one we are agreeing to disagree.

EDIT: I do agree horse isn't always king. Its power to weight within reason.

The thing is....when you are talking highly modded and hopped up machines like this (or any other type), you definitely run in to diminishing returns on performance vs cost. I.E. the last 5lbs is going to cost a LOT more than the first 5lbs.

At the end of the day....I would happily go riding with any of these machines on a showroom stock Axys. That sled stock will do 90% of what ANY sled will do with a decent pilot....other than crazy chute climbing (which isn't for everyone anyways). I've been riding stock sleds with mod sleds for years and never-not had fun. So if saving money is the objective....do the driver mod and forget all the rest.

 

[AndrettiDog]

I see I showed in just in time for the annual "Chris Burandt is charging too much for his custom sleds" post.

First of all, anyone who has met Chris knows he is really a good down to earth guy. He does a lot for the sport and donates his time for the Colorado club scene.

Most of us cannot afford or justify the purchase of those sleds. But to some, $30k+ is more like $3k+ and it's not that big of a deal. Those are the guys who will buy the sleds. Chris is pretty good at setting up sleds. He also does a lot of experimenting with those new lightweight parts to get everything dialed in. He went out of his way to update me on getting the SLP state 2/3 kit dialed in last year. When he figured out weights and other setup items, he passed the info along.

Anyway, it's fun to see what he's doing. If I had an extra $30k I still wouldn't be able to buy either sled. I'd probably have to buy kid stuff instead! But I enjoy the conversation about how others would do it differently!

 

[Scott]

165 at 10k?!

Ha. Good luck.

If you guys are so right about this why'd burandt even build a turbo sled?

I mean no disrespect, again, I just think it's funny how you guys are choosing to look at what I'm writing...

Holy cornflakes. I never said anything about 10k feet.
Sea Level, the stock Pro RMK 800ho is about 150ish.

I'll update my guestimations and "just abouts":

Bone stock Axys Pro RMK..BONE STOCK: 408lbs. 150hp= 2.72:1
Stock Axys ProRMK with 10(?) lbs boost: 413lbs. 200hp.= 2.06:1
JC Stage 4 ProRMK naturally aspirated: 355lbs. 170hp= 2.08:1


10k feet:
BONE stock: 110hp-->3.70:1
Turbo Axys: 185hp-->2.23:1
JC Stage 4 : 135hp-->2.62:1


I'd rather take JC into the trees instead of a turbo...at ANY ELEVATION. LOL.
Plain and simple.

Tear these numbers apart if you will...but it's in the neighborhood ballpark of reality. Yes, turbos loose HP at elevation too. If you set it to make 10lbs of boost all day long, it will make 10bs at sea level and at 10k, but it won't make the same HP at a sea level with 10lbs as the 10,000 feet 10 lbs.

 

[AKFULLTHROTTLE]

With out putting money on it, I would say a Axys on 10 would make a bit more than 200 at sea level.... For how ever long that was...

 

[JJ_0909]

Holy cornflakes. I never said anything about 10k feet.
Sea Level, the stock Pro RMK 800ho is about 150ish.

I'll update my guestimations and "just abouts":

Bone stock Axys Pro RMK..BONE STOCK: 408lbs. 150hp= 2.72:1
Stock Axys ProRMK with 10(?) lbs boost: 413lbs. 200hp.= 2.06:1
JC Stage 4 ProRMK naturally aspirated: 355lbs. 170hp= 2.08:1


10k feet:
BONE stock: 110hp-->3.70:1
Turbo Axys: 185hp-->2.23:1
JC Stage 4 : 135hp-->2.62:1


I'd rather take JC into the trees instead of a turbo...at ANY ELEVATION. LOL.
Plain and simple.

Tear these numbers apart if you will...but it's in the neighborhood ballpark of reality. Yes, turbos loose HP at elevation too. If you set it to make 10lbs of boost all day long, it will make 10bs at sea level and at 10k, but it won't make the same HP at a sea level with 10lbs as the 10,000 feet 10 lbs.

Wow.

You really believe a turbo sled at sea level is going to put out 200 at 10psi of boost? In the words of Fogle "read a book".

1) This side of some crazy geographical anomaly, you cannot be at sea level and also be in the mountains. Generally, people are riding 5-6K plus. Burandt rides at 10K. Hence why I said 10K. Eithe way, this side of a at-sea-level dyno, elevation will play into the equation for 90% real world of mountain riding situations.

2) The general cocktail napkin math is 1psi=10 horse. This starts to change as you push more and more boost without an intercooler as your air density goes down (you start to push hotter air.) That said, I would bet a LOT of money a modern turbo sled at 10psi at sea level is a lot closer to 230-240 than 200. Very well tuned with an intercooler? Maybe higher.

3) At Burandt's elevation, I'd still argue its going to be 190-200+ Hence why a turbo sled is so cool. (as a side note, an ECB is going to keep MAP constant, so that's going to mitigate your elevation loss...would someone push a MAP of 24.7? Maybe. It probably wouldn't last long even on a full race gas setup, but yeah, I'm sure someone has done it...)

Again, argue all you want. Monkey with the math all you want. The fact Burandt built a turbo sled along with JC tells me everything I need to know.

Splitting hairs? I don't know. But I do know a 15% difference in power to weight (turbo vs JC) at 10K is going to be a whole lot more noticeable than a 13% (or whatever) reduction in dry sled weight (which is less as a percentage basis once "fluided" up) from a stocker...

 

[Scott]

1) This side of some crazy geographical anomaly, you cannot be at sea level and also be in the mountains.
WOW!!!!! Way to stay on point.
You know that mountains do go right down to the coast line.
You can start in Montana​ at 1600 and gain 6-8000 feet pretty quickly.


2) The general cocktail napkin math is 1psi=10 horse. This starts to change as you push more and more boost without an intercooler as your air density goes down (you start to push hotter air.) That said, I would bet a LOT of money a modern turbo sled at 10psi at sea level is a lot closer to 230-240 than 200. Very well tuned with an intercooler? Maybe higher.
Ohhhhhhhh, we added intercoolers? OK.

Again, argue all you want. Monkey with the math all you want. The fact Burandt built a turbo sled along with JC tells me everything I need to know.
Yeah, he's got not one, but TWO expensive sleds that most people would love to ride.

Splitting hairs? I don't know. But I do know a 15% difference in power to weight (turbo vs JC) at 10K is going to be a whole lot more noticeable than a 13% (or whatever) reduction in dry sled weight (which is less as a percentage basis once "fluided" up) from a stocker...
I'd still rather have JC in the trees at ANY elevation vs a turbo. Is that what this is about?

Comments in red.

 

[JJ_0909]

Comments in red.

Ha. Great points.

Isn't general bullsh1ting the whole point of a forum? Debating an idea? Stating your position then objectively backing it up?

I don't really care what you want to ride or don't want to ride. I just took issue with the whole "you don't know what you are talking about" quip that was the undercurrent to much of this thread.

Yes, I do. And yes, I can back it up objectively. You don't have to agree with my opinions. But I'm still allowed to make them, all the more believable if I can back them up.

You like his sled. Cool. I think its ridiculously over priced. That's okay too.

There is no 'right' and 'wrong' here. That is until you start to skew math to make your point look better than it really should look...

So yeah, have a fun weekend, go ride your iron pony. We're both lucky to have em!

J

 

[Indy_500]

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[dragonflats]

Some call it a poor man's turbo. .. oops wrong thread

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