Building a garage revisited. Need alternatives to concrete

[roughrider99]

Hey guys
I wanna tear down the crappy shed I got and build a garage, but I have some un common challenges, I live on a rented pad so I cant use permanent foundations such as concrete. I have room to build 30wx25d heated workshop section with 12wx25d dry storage section for clutter and off season vehicle storage. Entire building will have 12ft ceiling but will try for a vaulted ceiling if costs is not much more.

I want this to be a complete shop I will be setup with air, 230v for welders and pipe bending equipping and the usual shop tools etc, Im not sure how to go about a good wooden foundation and a good flooring that can candle welding sparks, sled carbides, and the weight of a full size diesel truck.

Am I wasting my time and money trying to build nearly a full shop? Or should a slap in a nice garden shed and use the money to build complete and larger shop a few years down the road when I invest into an acreage property?

 

[89sandman]

Hey guys
I wanna tear down the crappy shed I got and build a garage, but I have some un common challenges, I live on a rented pad

unless they are gonna take 100 percent of what you spend off your rent your throwing your money away.. i'd put that money aside for the down payment on your own place!

 

[Jaynelson]

Hey guys
I wanna tear down the crappy shed I got and build a garage, but I have some un common challenges, I live on a rented pad

unless they are gonna take 100 percent of what you spend off your rent your throwing your money away.. i'd put that money aside for the down payment on your own place!

I was just going to post that same thing. Financially it doesn't make sense. Do you have any idea what you were planning to spend? Cause if it's, say $25K....and $250K will by a decent house in your area...well there's your 10% down payment. Numbers out of thin air and completely rounded off just for example....but you get the idea.

If you are taking out a loan to build this at a place you're renting.....well that just sounds like it will end in tears, to be honest.

 

[LeviD]

I agree. Unless they are paying for it your just making their property value go up but you wont see any return. Not to mention if they are mean maybe they would increase your rent cause of it to. Use the money toward your own place. Sounds like a huge hassle cause you can't even do a good flooring/foundation.

 

[Ron Burgandy]

well i'll try to answer your question haha....other guys have a good point though.


You could just do a slab on grade with no foundation....what if you did a wood green treated floor and than overlayed that with some tile backing board? Just throwing ideas out there...

 

[bholmlate]

If you are renting the place why not ask the landlord about fronting money for imporving his his own property and you can say your labor is what you are willing to throw in to make it happen. You never know he may be thinking about adding a garage and by you willing to build it for free there is no money out of your pocket and if things go bad you can walk away with only loosing your time. The agreement would have to be solid so you and him are protected. If he says no then you know where you stand and save your money to buy your own place. I would never build something on someone elses property unless the owner was part of the project. it just doenst make sense on many fronts and the outcome would always leave you geting the dirty end of the stick.

The money you would spend on a floor system that would support a full size car would cost you as much as a slab on grade as Ron suggested and it would not last very long. The only other things is building a car port with pavers for a floor and four posts burried in concrete and some how skin it with some sort of wood siding. it would not be weather tight and not very nice to work in.

 

[baddodges]

An idea on a floor.recycled asphalt known as asphalt millings they set up like real asphalt when compacted. Or recycled concrete add spray it with water and compact it. Its just like real concrete. Or crushed limestone.

 

[roughrider99]

I own the buildings not the land so I only pay a small pad rent fee, I live in a small trailer park with only 8 residents the owner of the land is my neighbor, I will hopefully be purchasing my lot someday for better re sell value but the paperwork for the owner is a slow process,

I bought my trailer for a good price and now I'm renovating it and building a garage, but due to land rules I can't do permant foundation, my lot sits riverfront on the elk river and in my areas the avg home price is 500,000 with any sort of house and shop on an acreage is a minimum of 7-800,000. With the high cost of housing, trailers are the majority of housing and most trailers barely have a backyard, I do have a good sized yard and one of the best fishing rivers in southern bc is 50 ft from my house. If I build a full service garage for 40k or less I can sell and double my money in a heartbeat. And our housing market is slow right now! This valley is full of mechanics and mine workers and outdoor enthusiasts, a sub 300k place with a garage is impossible to find, so it DOES make sense to do the project

Too answer some questions
-jay 250k will buy a garbage run down house needing 100k in renos, 400k is starting price, I will have my current place payed off in 4 years and will be renting as my permanent home project is an 800k budget

-as for a strong floor system this garage is not for vehicle parking just for repairs and Motorsport toy storage, repair and fabrication.

So now that I cleared that up! Hope that explains it and now on to garage building

 

[trikerider]

The forum on this site is great (shop/garage guys).

http://www.garagejournal.com/

 

[Jaynelson]

Too answer some questions
-jay 250k will buy a garbage run down house needing 100k in renos, 400k is starting price,

Same math....40K is an ok down stroke on a 400K house. Like I say, pulled the numbers from thin air for examples sake

With the additional info you've given now, your idea makes a lot more sense and I see what you're saying. You asked:

Am I wasting my time and money trying to build nearly a full shop? Or should a slap in a nice garden shed and use the money to build complete and larger shop a few years down the road when I invest into an acreage property?

So if you think it's a good opportunity to make money, by all means. If you can build the shop for less than what it will add to trailer/shop combined value for flipping it, then go for it. Or if you plan on staying there a long time and will benefit from a shop, also would work fine.

The main thing I would caution on would be hedging any future plans on your neighbor selling you the land. Like you said; it's a long process. One of the things I've learned with regards to wheelings and dealings.....the longer something goes on, the more stuff has the potential to go sideways. The landlord may have full intention of selling you the land today, however, if something comes up in his life 6 months or 6 years from now that doesn't jive with that plan....your best interests will be low on his list of concerns. That much I will guarantee you.

 

[roughrider99]

I hope to only be in my current place for another 4 years max unless housing market really picks up. I refuse to go another year without a shop, since I don't plan to be at this spot long term no concrete and good wood foundation is fine and it keeps the property value at an easy to sell price with good profit. That can attract a large group of buyers. I don't think the opportunity to purchase the dirt won't happen within 2-3 years and even then due to shared water and sewage the park will become a strata which doesn't get me further ahead.

So in retrospect I would rather build an appealing wood foundation shop, make it work well, make it all pretty and get out. I'm a farm kid and I will be happy when there are no neighbors in sight and only a short quad ride away from my house, and I have the full service shop I'm used to havin on the farm

 

[LoudHandle]

My best thoughts at that moment are to level the building site. Locate enough used treated rail road ties to bury to near grade (will add stability and add weather separation) to support the walls and form your foundation. Here in Alaska they have a yearly sale and sell them cheap (5-10 bucks each) with a quantity discount, maybe CNR has a similar program? For the floor, after getting it level, adding sand or pea gravel in the low spots, lay 2" blue board down to keep the heat from running out to the ground. A couple layers plywood over that, staggering the joints. If you plan on doing a lot of stick, MIG welding, or oxy/acetylene torch work lay some sheet metal or cement board down where or when you are doing hot work. The rest can be built as you would normally. When sheeting the walls, I would drop the bottom of the sheets past the bottom plate and overlap the railroad ties to minimize cold air intrusion.

 

[roughrider99]

I was thinking about railway ties I can get tons super easy and for free, lots laying around on the farm, I thought about 3/4 " plywood with a bunch of coats of bed liner on the floor? Then it's sealed so I can shim for water drainage and would it be resistant for carbides and hot work?

 

[Blk88GT]

Sealed plywood will not guard against carbides or welding slag.

Save your money and do it right.

This coming from someone who just built a 40x50 shop.....

 

[roughrider99]

I will be doing a shop right later but I still need one now, cuz its gonna benefit me anyways, when I was talking about sealed plywood I was talking about using Bedliner and putting a few heavy coats. Or does anyone know of a heavy flooring material

 

[Jaynelson]

Comedy side note....Check this out on how NOT to build outbuildings LOL

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3348017#post3348017

 

[roughrider99]

I lik the cement board idea is it pretty durable or will I be brittle even with braced 3/4 plywood subfloor?

 

[AZ800]

No real "good" options in place of concrete IMO.
If you must have something you can roll a jack around on and relatively clean then asphalt pave it.
Yes rap and rcp will pack down good but they're still just a glorified gravel driveway.
Framing in a wood floor and a durable covering like tile would cost a fortune to get enough strength for point loads jacking up a truck.

With asphalt you'd have to be careful with solvents but it will hold up fine to hot work as long as you're not running a fab shop out of it.

Another option would be to put in a real good base like rap or rcp and then concrete it on the sneak. Haul in pallets of conc mix at night and mix/ pour by hand with the door closed!

 

[red]

What about a smaller sea can? Yes there ugly as hell, but seen a few after people spruced them up. Put roll up door instead of typical 4 handle opening doors, put some windows in place. Have seen pitched roof to make look kinda like a garage. Its just an idea for a very quick building. Good luck

 

[IDspud]

Have you ever seen what torch sparks do to a spray in bedliner?

Lots of sweet mechanics shops on wheels if you look in the used motorsports trailer market, just a thought.