Bought a 2009 M8 HCR w/ Boondocker turbo...

[MI1M600EFI]

...and I have a few questions for those of you running similar sleds...

This is an '09, so last of the non-HO 800's. It got a new controller last year due to the original having a cracked (and unreadable) LCD display. The new controller has EBC, while the old one has a manual boost setup.

I'm told that it never ran that well with it's original controller, and that with the new one, it is pretty unhappy in the mid-range...

The box the new controller came in says "CBA-A025 - 2013 Arctic Cat M8" which I think corresponds to a pump gas setup for the newer HO engine...

I found base cal settings Boondocker's website that are listed as "for 2009-newer sleds". I'm planning to start with those settings next year and see how it goes...

If anyone can provide a better starting point, that would be great! Or any advice in general, really...

Thanks!!!

 

[jim]

I have this sled with the separate EBC and boondocker fuel controller...you could manually adjust the boost level, and the EBC compensated for altitude. Works great. The new integrated EBC controller is the same thing, it just has the function of the EBC integrated.

A few things about this sled. Replace the diamond drive bearing immediately. I checked mine at about 1000 miles and the cage has fallen apart and it was ready to fall apart entirely. Also, I fought fueling on this sled for the first year...was getting odd rich spots off of idle and in the midrange at times. Sometimes it was so bad the sled would barely turn the track past 10mph. I then went to a cold air intake and this solved any fueling problems I had. For some reason, that sled did not handle the gulp of hot air it would get at times...usually after a decent pull or if sitting idle for a bit. The cold air intake fixed all of this.

As for fuel numbers, leave the idle circuit alone...it tends to work well left alone for the stock ECU. And then for each rpm range under boost set it pig rich to start out with and pull back from there. And for boost levels, start out low...around 5PSI for 6k feet is a good start. And raise boost from there until your duty cycle is around 85-90% and leave alone.

Lastly, this turbo set-up is what I would call "almost pump gas"...meaning if you run boost up to the 90-95% duty cycle range, you will start to get a detonation code. To make sure I'm safe, I run octane booster. I use half a bottle of 16 oz Royal Purple octane booster per full tank of gas and this keeps me safe from any det codes. I use this octane booster because you can get it at most parts stores (I get mine at Oreillys).

 

[MI1M600EFI]

Thanks Jim, that was fast!! I haven't powered this thing up yet, but it appears the later cals were not modifying the map much at all, while cals for the earlier model like mine may have added quite a bit of fuel at higher RPM's for all loads.

Interesting on the cold air... Makes sense to me, and jives with how others described how this sled ran... hit and miss... Someone put frog skins over all the hood vents, and I'll be pulling those off... I don't ride in botomless powder much, and I think they really limit airflow underhood...

Unfortunately the factory intake setup is all hacked up and missing... I'll do some research. One of my friends put the intake pipe right up through the hood... Not really interested in that route on this otherwise clean sled...

Since I think my M8 snow pro does fine with no turbo, I'll probably keep the boost on this thing really low, like 4psi or so. That should make it happy on pump gas for sure... Honestly, I may just let this thing go next fall and keep looking for a good deal on a clean '10-11 Sno Pro 153...

As for the DD, I'll check it this summer and replace it if it's not a wide one. My sled still had the factory narrow bearing at ~2500 miles when I bought it, so this one may also be stock... I have an extra wide bearing that I ordered when I did my Sno Pro, so I'm all set aside from doing the work.

 

[MI1M600EFI]

Quick update. Sent an email to boondocker and got good starting numbers. Not quite what's in the box, but close.

I really don't know if I want this turbo sled or not... It's really clean aside from a few bumps and bruises, and the mileage is low, so if it turns out to be reliable and fun at low boost, it's probably a keeper.

I'll pull it in and check the DD later this fall.

If anyone wants a clean turbo M8, I'm probably up for selling it, or perhaps a trade for an un-molested '10-11 Sno Pro 153.

 

[MI1M600EFI]

Cleaning up this sled so I can take it for a ride if we get some snow... Everything seems in order, but I noticed yesterday that the turbo has no water lines going to it...

It has the threaded holes for the lines, just looks like nobody ever ran lines. Any of you have a similar setup? The current instructions online call for water lines... I'm thinking I probably want to add them.

I just emailed Boondocker to see what they say.

I also bought it a canister for the rear air shock. I did them on my M8 sno pro and it seemed like between that and a 2011 revalve, the ride was 100% better... I'll probably send out the rear shocks on this one for a revalve soon too...

 

[turboless terry]

I hope they didn't run it. Needs water lines. I had an 09 and seems like I had to pull skid plate to t into water. Sticks in my head that it was a pain but that was a long time ago. Never had trouble. 1 set of plugs because it would sputter on top end. Keep on top of belt deflection or you will get a low end bog. Ride it and have fun. Just don't ride any new iron and you will be plumb happy. Worst thing I hated was the heavy steering.

 

[MI1M600EFI]

Thanks Terry! I would love to be turboless on this sled too, and that was my original idea in buying it. Unfortunately, I'd be missing too many parts to make stripping off the turbo worthwhile. I'm going to set the turbo for 5or 6psi and ride it. If I don't like it, perhaps someone will want to trade for a decent non-turbo '09-11 Sno Pro...

I just confirmed with Boondocker that I should add the lines. Ordered the necessary fittings and a couple of oil filters too. Looks pretty easy, aside from pulling the belly pan.

The heavy steering on the '09's is a bummer, but that's about my only complaint with this chassis, and it's only an issue when I'm stopped really. I just wait till I'm moving to steer...

I would like to ride a newer sled to see how much easier sidehilling is, but I can't yet justify buying a 2016 or newer, and it seems like that's the next step that I should take...

 

[turboless terry]

Good luck. I had a lot of fun with mine. That was back in the day when I could play in the trees and nobody could hang. Doo guys thoughts the could until you showed them. They would also argue about a mountain bar being better and you couldn't tell them any different.

 

[MI1M600EFI]

Well, first ride this weekend. First time grooming too, but that's another story...

The turbo sled ran great as long as I kept it below half throttle. Over that, it would cut out entirely at times, and pull fairly strong at other times... Exactly what the PO described.

After fiddling with the controller for a while with no change, I noticed that I was only getting 2-3psi on the gauge. I checked the controller, which has built in boost control, and it read 0.0PSI at all times, though I had it set for 5.0psi. After looking around under the hood for an unplugged boost sensor, I found a little black tube that wasn't hooked to anything. By blowing in it, I could get the controller to read a bit of boost pressure...

The previous owner never hooked up the boost sense hose when he updated to the EBT controller... So it's never been fueling for boost, and never been making much of any boost either...


I rode the rest of the day gently, keeping out of boost so as not to melt it down by leaning it out. I'll get that tube hooked into the intake this week, and see how it does next weekend once it can actually sense and control boost levels... I bet it'll be much improved!!

 

[MI1M600EFI]

Took the turbo out for another ride today with the boost line (and water hoses) hooked up. She runs great!

I set the maps to the numbers recommended by Boondocker and it was pull and go. Readout on the exhaust temps crapped out part way through the day, but the highest I saw was ~1280F. That was on the trail on the way in with little to no boost so I turned off the Xtra feature that was set to lean it a bit from 3-6k when boost was low... After that, we got to some deep powder and it flooded out on me when I shut it down and refused to start for a while, so I re-enabled it and had no further issues. Temp was near 30F all day, powder bottomless in places. I only set the turbo for about 5psi, but it was still noticeable when it would come up.

The sled also seemed quieter than before... Perhaps with things unplugged, the wastegate was partially open... ?? Or I just wasn't used to how loud snowmobiles are on the first ride of the season...

We discovered today that someone swapped the front spindles for '08 or older ones... It steers quite a bit easier than my '09 Sno Pro, but perhaps doesn't turn quite as sharp.

I'm pretty happy with this thing. Probably will keep it through our West Yellowstone trip in Feb, but then I think it'll go up for sale or trade... I'd really like to get the wife on a 600 Polaris Pro-RMK with electric start... She rode the M8 for a while today and did ok, but that's a lot of sled for a 115lb rider... The Pro-RMK has to be 75lbs lighter, and e-start would be nice for her.

Not a very exciting picture, but you get what you get...

Lunch stop. Powder deep in places! (and the little fanner was getting warm at this point, since I was flogging it for fun...)

 

[jim]

Good to hear and thanks for the follow up. You know I have the same sled. The flooding can actually be the intake gulping hot air after it sits for a bit and for some reason, this can throw the fueling off with the BD system...can be tough to restart...hold throttle wide open and let your friend pull. I know it is a commitment, but if you cut a hole in the hood and make a snorkel, it runs so much better/cleaner and won't have the odd flood fits anymore. 6 inch Al pipe from amazon and a fitting with BD filter top and you are there. The cool intake/air makes a big difference. I had situations where I'd try to get on it and the sled would just stutter hard and not recover...it gulped hot air and wouldn't recover. Also bad for detonation. Also, you said it was more quiet...yep...this is the tunnel exhaust. In any deeper snow, it gets snuffed out...just wheelie to hear it better. Have fun man, great sled. One of my favorites and I really don't feel I need to upgrade. Hangs with the new sleds (minus extreme sidehills the newer stuff owns) and is just fun. Also, for climbing and floating, loose on front/rear shock and rear/rear shock tighter. For wheelies...just loosen rear/rear/ Enjoy.

 

[MI1M600EFI]

Thanks Jim! I hate nothing more than when I'm looking through threads that just peter out with no update...

Speaking of that, I've been surfing suspension setup threads...

This sled has both the front and rear skid mounts in the lower holes (Drilled out fronts) which I thought was a no-no... It did seem to trench some when I rode it this weekend, but it was pretty bottomless where I was noticing it.

What was obvious to me was that it is much easier to initiate a turn on this sled with a counter steer than it is on my '09 Sno Pro... I know the skis are set to the inboard position, whereas mine are centered. (Well, were... I changed them yesterday after riding this sled...)

I confirmed that this HCR actually has a standard width front end on it, instead of the ~2" wider HCR front. It appears to be off an '07 or earlier M-series, since it has the ez steer spindles. (So nice!)

Any thoughts on the rear skid setup contributing to the easier turning? Preload on the forward shock is about the same as on my Sno Pro at 3/8". Rear pressure ~120psi IIRC. (Same, at least, since I set them both on the same day...)

I think I am going to relocate the skid to the upper hole where it "should" be and see if I notice a difference... Perhaps the extra height makes it easier to tip with a counter steer... ??

FWIW, the HCR front shocks have titanium springs, and all the shock damping seems stiffer than the the revalved floats on my Sno Pro... I'll probably send the rears out to Andy (Gas Shock Repair) for a 2011 re-valve soon, but not sure what to do about the fronts, since the 2011 valving that I have applied to floats, not coilovers... Think 2011 HCR's got a softer revalve on the front shocks too?? Time to spend a little time looking at parts fiche I suppose...

 

[MI1M600EFI]

Post Yellowstone trip update...

First, I'll start off by saying that I LOVE this sled.

Our week in Yellowstone was pretty snowy... Only one day with good visibility, but lots of days with great snow!

I was able to hop back and forth a fair bit between my '09 Sno Pro and the '09 BD HCR.

Understand that the HCR actually has '07 M series front arms and spindles, Powder Pro skiis, and an unidentified Camso mountain track, so aside from the front shocks and the stickers, it's really not an HCR anymore. I haven't measured them, but I suspect that the HCR front shocks have not been shortened, which is why it works out OK with the rear skid fully dropped. It definitely sits higher than my Sno Pro... I'll probably leave it that way, since it also keeps it up out of the snow better, and I think it sidehills easier than my lower SnoPro.

The track on it just says Camso and a part number. I haven't looked it up. The paddles are ~2" tall and are deformed so they seem to lift the snowmobile as the track spins faster rather than digging in... It stops well, but it likes to spin the track rather than digging in at takeoff.

I'm now a big fan of the turbo! It ran flawless the entire trip. I am running the boondocker suggested numbers, set for 5PSI at 7000', with Electronic Boost Control that gains ~1psi/1000'. With these numbers, the Koso EGT gauges didn't show anything scary on the one ride I made while they worked. They crapped out for the whole yellowstone trip, but the sled ran great, so I'm inclined to say it's at lest close enough for me.

The tall 2010/11 style seat is simply awesome. I want one for my Sno Pro...

Climbing in deep powder, I saw track speeds around 50mph! Once the track cleared 30, the sled seemed to lift up out of the snow, which I attribute to the deformed paddles compressing some snow under the spinning track. Though it would easily outclimb my Sno Pro, it sure seems like it could use more track.

The sleds I was riding with were non-turbo's. The new 850 Summit in our group with a ~155 x 3" track was king of the hill for sure, just poking around where the rest of us had to get at it some. In a straight powder climb, the 3" track and power of that 850 did much better than my turbo, which was the next closest performer. The other two sleds (an 800 Summit and a Pro-chassis Assault) were both 2.5" tracks of similar length, and both struggled a bit more than my 2" turbo. The turbo definiately saved the day for me!!

I really like this sled. I honestly bought it with no intention of keeping it, but now I'm considering selling the Sno Pro... I think this is workable if I find a 2.6" PC for the turbo. If I find a 3" PC (or Camso Extreme) for the turbo, I'll probably look for a mountain seat for the Sno Pro and keep it, using the turbo for deep powder days... I do get attached to my "things"...

On the last day, the light was terrible and after the snow moved in, I kept getting stuck in drifts that I couldn't see, or in this case, by submarining in a soft spot created by buried small trees. (There were 4 more under the sled after we tugged it out.)

Oh, I also put a rear flap on it from Proven Design Products. Best snow flap ever!!! (Not a paid endorsement, but I'll put using Matt's flaps on every sled that needs one from now on!!) provendesignproducts.com

This is my wife sitting on it... She ended up riding it some too, since the '14 Pro-RMK 600 that we picked up on the way to West Yellowstone turned out to be a total tank, and very hard for even us heavier guys to ride. (It's already for sale if anyone wants it...)

So that's where this ended up. Anyone with track suggestions for me is welcome to chime in. I think a 3" track would be awesome, but a 2.6" PC would also probably get it done just fine, and might fit easier.

Thanks for reading, and be sure to get out and ride whatever you have!!!

 

[MI1M600EFI]

Oh, there is one issue... I have noticed that when it's cold, it is really hard (dare I say impossible?) to start unless I unplug the oil pump. If I do that first, it'll start cold on the 3rd pull, just like my Sno Pro. With the pump plugged in, it takes a bigger boy than me, or a lot of pulls before it starts, if it starts at all...

Twice it failed to restart when I shut it down good and hot. I discovered that unplugging the pump in that case also get it running again in just a couple pulls.

When I plug it back in after it's running, there is no noticeable change in the headlights or any other electronics, so I don't think the pump has excessive draw...

I'm thinking possibly it has a weak stator... ?? For now it's liveable, but I don't want it to crap out if that really is the issue... ??