"Best all around Bike?" 2013 Build Project

[swedenturbo]

I think we all have our own preferences what trannys we prefer.
My first snowbike was -07 YZF450. In my opinion was the first gear too high. Hardly impossible drive slow in first gear. Small steps between gears and chift a lot. SX bikes was not mine kind of cup of tea.
The 500 EXC has a low first and easier to crawl.
More torqe that it can handle wider spread between gears.
Negative is that top gear is too high that you seldom use it. I will test some different sprockets next season.

For those who are unsure what's best, try some different bikes and find out which you like.

 

[mtn-doo]

Last year I had the pleasure of riding a 500 xc-w stock except a FMF slip-on with LT kit in Cooke City for a couple days. I was amazed at how strong it was pulling at elevation. I was pulling chutes in 4th gear on the rev limiter......at 10000 feet. So dont think that a 500 KTM won't make a killer snow bike, especially for more open terrain where the shifting is at a minimum.

Totally agree. bdoe22 knows what 500xcw's we rod with the last two years. They worked flawlessly. Excellent bike. Buy it and go ride it for sure! If that's what someone's looking at, do it! you won't be disappointed.

 

[mtn-doo]

The air box. I could just install the Frozen Boost reducing coupling, 2"to 3", and a Boondocker filter and be done, but I am first going to see how I can improve the stock box and test it that way. Air is the most important factor in our engines performance. The more air, the more hp. All we have to work with is a normally aspirated engine. We aren't going to push air with a turbo or pack it in with a supercharger! Ha Every engine mod, 2 stroke or 4 stroke, head, cylinder, or exhaust is ALL for air flow. We might forget that installing a $1000 exhaust, fuel controller, ported head job, etc won't get us the performance we are expecting if massive amounts of air cannot "freely" enter the engine. ANY resistance to free flowing air will reduce the engines performance. I have tested several intake mods using an AFR probe in the pipe and observed the results. By just installing a performance exhaust system AND a free flowing intake system, the AFR's would make a big jump, "lean". That is why there are disclaimers with exhaust and intake mod parts. You have the ability to greatly increase airflow and lean the engine by doing so. You can even end up in a situation where you may need to "add" fuel. I have seen this happen. Anyway, I felt it is super important to address the air issue. It is the single biggest factor in engine performance.

I removed the foam filter, snowmobiles don't have one.... for a reason. If MX bikes weren't in dirt, dust, sand, etc... they wouldn't come with one. Then I removed the back-fire screen. Next I found some memory wire. I drilled 8 holes around the plastic cage and 8 holes around a fender washer to install on the center post. I wired the 8 memory wires into their respective holes making a cage. The memory wire will not bend. It also has a benefit of being "springy" and "live" and helps keep the filter clean. Last, I made a plastic frame, two sides, to rivet in a frog skin window in the air box near the strut rod. To keep snow out of the box, I used Ski-Doo air box foam and outer-wears fabric and made two plugs to plug the side air inlets. The filters flow air freely but will not allow snow to pass. They are held in place by sewn velcro on the plug and 3M sticky back velcro on the inside of the side panel.

This should give the engine a lot of air. Might even be a little on the lean side down low but good at elevation? I will let you know.

 

[mtn-doo]

Frog Skin window and side intake plugs.

 

[more snow]

Thanks for all the great info on the 450vs 500 KTM. Sounds like the 500 might have more low end pull through the bottom end for changing gears. Assuming that they have similar peak power, I am thinking that the motor with stronger bottom and midrange will be the more useful overall. Transmission ratios is really a valid topic that cant be ignored. Not sure what to do there. I have been riding a suped up wr450 the last 3 years and am trying to figure out my next bike. Definitely want more power. I am just not sure that the new KTM 450 is going to have ton more power than current 450?

 

[byeatts]

The air box. I could just install the Frozen Boost reducing coupling, 2"to 3", and a Boondocker filter and be done, but I am first going to see how I can improve the stock box and test it that way. Air is the most important factor in our engines performance. The more air, the more hp. All we have to work with is a normally aspirated engine. We aren't going to push air with a turbo or pack it in with a supercharger! Ha Every engine mod, 2 stroke or 4 stroke, head, cylinder, or exhaust is ALL for air flow. We might forget that installing a $1000 exhaust, fuel controller, ported head job, etc won't get us the performance we are expecting if massive amounts of air cannot "freely" enter the engine. ANY resistance to free flowing air will reduce the engines performance. I have tested several intake mods using an AFR probe in the pipe and observed the results. By just installing a performance exhaust system AND a free flowing intake system, the AFR's would make a big jump, "lean". That is why there are disclaimers with exhaust and intake mod parts. You have the ability to greatly increase airflow and lean the engine by doing so. You can even end up in a situation where you may need to "add" fuel. I have seen this happen. Anyway, I felt it is super important to address the air issue. It is the single biggest factor in engine performance.

I removed the foam filter, snowmobiles don't have one.... for a reason. If MX bikes weren't in dirt, dust, sand, etc... they wouldn't come with one. Then I removed the back-fire screen. Next I found some memory wire. I drilled 8 holes around the plastic cage and 8 holes around a fender washer to install on the center post. I wired the 8 memory wires into their respective holes making a cage. The memory wire will not bend. It also has a benefit of being "springy" and "live" and helps keep the filter clean. Last, I made a plastic frame, two sides, to rivet in a frog skin window in the air box near the strut rod. To keep snow out of the box, I used Ski-Doo air box foam and outer-wears fabric and made two plugs to plug the side air inlets. The filters flow air freely but will not allow snow to pass. They are held in place by sewn velcro on the plug and 3M sticky back velcro on the inside of the side panel.

This should give the engine a lot of air. Might even be a little on the lean side down low but good at elevation? I will let you know.

Your spot on about allowing More air. Nice work. where did you find the pre filter material to fit?

 

[mtn-doo]

Thanks for all the great info on the 450vs 500 KTM. Sounds like the 500 might have more low end pull through the bottom end for changing gears. Assuming that they have similar peak power, I am thinking that the motor with stronger bottom and midrange will be the more useful overall. Transmission ratios is really a valid topic that cant be ignored. Not sure what to do there. I have been riding a suped up wr450 the last 3 years and am trying to figure out my next bike. Definitely want more power. I am just not sure that the new KTM 450 is going to have ton more power than current 450?

If you mean will the KTM have a ton more power than the WR450, I deffinitely think so. The WR is an enduro motor, pretty layed back and not a real power house. Less than the average MX450. The new SXF's are 60hp with an exhaust and ton's of over-rev. The best advice I could offer is ride them. Ride as many different ones as you can. Wide ratio's, MX ratio's, 450's, 500's etc, then pick the one that makes you say wow!!!

They all work well. A mixed group of riders will all ride together as a group all day. They all have different characteristics, and pro's and con's. You have a fun but difficult decision to make! Ha

 

[mtn-doo]

Your spot on about allowing More air. Nice work. where did you find the pre filter material to fit?

I had an extra roll in my shop from an earlier project. I believe I got it from a local snowmobile dealer. It obviously came from Western Power though. I would search on line or check with a dealer who carries WP products. The outer wears material is the best. It is slick and will not get wet or allow snow to stick to it. It is super nice stuff. Expensive though. I think this 10" square cost around $20.?

Make the inner foam a little big so that it sticks out like a pillow. "rounded", It will stay perfectly clean. Don't make it a flush or worse, a concave fit. That will allow snow to gather there.

 

[jeffc]

Are you running the stock stator?

 

[mtn-doo]

Are you running the stock stator?

Yes, they produce plenty of power. I will be installing heated grips.

 

[the gman]

What have you found out about the different map switch that is on the dungey bike? Some say there are three maps in there you can access with a trail tec switch, some say you have to buy ktm switch, and some say you have to load different maps in???. I will be running the dobeck controller on my 450 sx but don't want to mess with the air box so what snorkel is better, timber sleds or boon dockers.

 

[Rush44]

Randy and I have been tracking down the issues with the map switch like crazy. Both of us have talked with KTM North American out of Ohio (multiple times) and have done a lot of other phone calls with other KTM "experts".

Long story short, for the 13, 13.5, and 14 450 SX-F the map switch from KTM DOES WORK. The part number for the correct underseat switch is 76511010000 (10 position dial, Position 1 (gentle), Position 2 (aggressive), Position 3-10 (standard)). The optional 2 position handlebar switch is 77239974000 and all it does is activate the setting in the underseat switch (turns the underseat switch on/off) and is not mandatory.

The reason for all the confusion is that for all bikes (even the Dungey 13.5) there is only ONE MAP in the ECU. What the switch does is alter the electrical impulses sent by the ECU to the bike and changes things like pulse-width modification and other characteristics to things like fuel delivery, engine timing, etc. So while it is true there is only one map (which is why so many people say the switch does nothing since there is only one map) the switch modifies that map with static electrical impedance changes found in the switch itself.

The magnitude of the changes the switch provides is really the question. I just installed my underseat switch last night and I will be hitting the MX track this week to do some testing. I've been told they aren't as noticeable as the changes for a chip swap like on the the KX450F, but they are there.

 

[jeffc]

Yes, they produce plenty of power. I will be installing heated grips.

Are you running any kind of light that will be supportive of electric startt and handwarmers

 

[bdoe22]

HANDWARMERS/HEADLIGHT

the cyclops 310 and the moose handwarmers are what we recommend on the sx-f/xc-f.

 

[mtn-doo]

Time for all new plastics. I chose UFO black plastics and an Acerbis super-moto front fender. With the SXF you also need to replace the air box because the air box and side panels are all one piece. Easy swap though. I also installed some aluminum heat shield inside the right side panel where the pipe is close.

 

[mtn-doo]

Foot Pegs, These are the Fastway adventure pegs. They are large and super nice. They can be mounted in the low position for stand-up riders. Super nice stuff from those guys.

 

[mtn-doo]

Risers. Not everyone rides with risers but I recommend it. Stand-up riding is super comfortable with risers and adjustable pegs. The folks at KTM have a super nice triple clamp/riser design. Instead of the old "cone" in the hole from below the triple clamp, KTM has a super trick design. They machine a set of rails on top of the triple clamp to prevent twisting and mis-alignment of bars and risers. They stay perfectly true. They mount in two optional holes as well. You can adjust for your arm length or weight transfer desires. I feel "up and back" will be a preferred mount for the snow bike, moving the center of weight back.
These are the Fastway 2" risers. They are super nice!

 

[mtn-doo]

Hey Guys, A little mod to reduce the snow blasted forward onto the engine etc. I removed the roost guard and fabed a plastic guard to replace it. It is wider, exhaust across, and deeper. A small simple mod that will have some benefits.

 

[Cberg]

Awesome build and thanks for keeping us all up to date!! The testing and R&D you guys are doing is great and I'm sure is helping alot of people myself included get a better setup on our bikes. My snowbike is a 2010 450 Sxf so not FI but still alot of little setup tips that I can incorporate for sure!!

Cheers!!

 

[Gros Chien]

Randy, come-up to Whistler last week of october and let's have some fun in the shop getting our 4 scoots ready for the coming season