Bent s-modules

[Err]

So, I had an '08 XP and not surprisingly, I bent the front s-module. A moderate hit on a rock produced no damage at all to the arms or ski on the right side but knocked the whole front end out of whack. With the help of a resourceful dealer we were able to straighten it out and it was fine until I moved it along the next year. I've been on a Pro ever since but with the Pro I've traded the flexible front-end for 3rd grader designed electronics. So, my experience with changing brands has not led to less headaches.

The reason for this post is that I've been hearing an awful lot of good things about the handling on the XM and I'd also heard that the front-ends were stronger. However, having recently observed a few '14's, all of the few that I've gotten a close look at were bent. I've developed a very good eye for the mis-alignments since I had the issue with my '08 so I'm certain I know what I'm looking at.

So, the '14's still bend up, I can see that. What I want to know is do a-arms such as those that Alternative Impact offers resolve this issue? Anyone have a perfectly straight s-module after taking a descent hit with these?

FWIW, this is not a troll and I don't want to argue with anyone about this issue. I'm genuinely interested as I'm going to be in the market for a new sled soon. I just don't want to deal with twisted front ends. I ride only in the mountains and mostly in low density powder where pushing through the snow and hitting solid objects is just a way of life. I don't mind bending a-arms and I always carry full coverage INS in case of a serious accident but buying a new s-module every year is just doesn't seem like a great idea. My wife jokes that my Polaris isn't bent because it never runs Anyway, curious to hear if anyone feels like they've found a good solution.

 

[mtsummitx]

Grip N Rip Racing products makes some very good S-modue braces to help alleviate this problem. First thing I put on my 08 when I got it last spring.

 

[mtsummitx]

Heres a pic

 

[Err]

Interesting. It seems that without something to cause the a-arms to give that this mod alone could just cost you your e-module. It looks like something that I would want to use in conjunction with an a-arm designed to give out as added assurance. Are you still running stock a-arms?

 

[haleyeah13]

I have alternative impact arms on my 12 they seem to save the s module because where the a arm attaches to the spindle it is a rod with a bushing on it the rod part bends or gives before the a arm does kinda hard to explain. I think that new lower rods with bushings was like $17 a piece but they are easy to change out with just a couple tools. I have hit mine hard enough to where it broke the threaded part off and I could still change it on the mt and keep riding. It didn't bend a arm at all and it was a hard hit threw me over the handle bars. Sneaky rock monsters!

 

[mtsummitx]

Interesting. It seems that without something to cause the a-arms to give that this mod alone could just cost you your e-module. It looks like something that I would want to use in conjunction with an a-arm designed to give out as added assurance. Are you still running stock a-arms?

Yes I am running stock arms, If you look at the pic again there is actually 2 braces that work in conjunction. E-mod brace and S-mod brace.

 

[Err]

I have alternative impact arms on my 12 they seem to save the s module because where the a arm attaches to the spindle it is a rod with a bushing on it the rod part bends or gives before the a arm does kinda hard to explain. I think that new lower rods with bushings was like $17 a piece but they are easy to change out with just a couple tools. I have hit mine hard enough to where it broke the threaded part off and I could still change it on the mt and keep riding. It didn't bend a arm at all and it was a hard hit threw me over the handle bars. Sneaky rock monsters!

Ah, now this is what I was hoping to hear. Are your shocks still perfectly centered in your a-arms? If you don't mind taking a close look...

 

[Err]

Yes I am running stock arms, If you look at the pic again there is actually 2 braces that work in conjunction. E-mod brace and S-mod brace.

I see now I missed that. I wonder how that translates in a hard hit to an ski. Assuming it hasn't happened to you, maybe someone will chime in.

One thing I've noticed with the Doos is when you bend them they tend to give a little throughout the s-module. I wonder how those braces help with that or if they just change where it bends.

If I sound critical of your mod, that's not it at all. I'm just kinda brainstorming out loud, hoping to flush this out. I really like what Doo's been up to except for the seemingly strange decision to not make the a-arm the weakest link.

 

[mtsummitx]

I've taken several good ski wacks so far this year with nothing bent up, even ran into the back of my kids sled with one ski in the air (direct hit bottom of my ski into the back of his bumper, long story , folded his rear bumper (REV chasis by the way, much stouter rear bumper than XP) Seem to be working well for me. I do understand the theory behind making the a-arms the weak link, although with what a-arms cost I would hate to be having to replace them all the time. The alternative impact system mentioned above sounds intriguing though.

 

[alt]

I don't have a huge amount of in stock right now but we have parts going to the coater almost daily so if its something you decide to do I would be happy to help out. Were really proud of the fact that this system works so well, it really does. Although most think its "all" in the rod end design the actual configuration of the arm in this particular case ( wall thickness, tube size and placement) plays an important role as well. Each manufacturer requires different needs in terms of strength on these parts, and the Ski Doo whether it be a Rev, Xp, or Xm we all know has a very fragile bulkhead. Thanks!

Dan

 

[LeviD]

A few weeks ago I hit a tree with the bottom of my right ski. Coming back off the mountain I noticed my right ski pointed inwards when my handle bars are straight. Does this sound like a bent s-module to you guys? This is my first sled so I really didn't know what was wrong and my ski seemed out of align. So I adjusted the ski to point back outward just slightly. I took my sled to the dealer because I also needed warranty work done and asked them to check out my ski alignment. They said everything looked fine. Well I got my sled back from them and the ski is pointed back inward. It does not appear anything is bent that I can tell.

 

[salmonbum]

I've taken several good ski wacks so far this year with nothing bent up, even ran into the back of my kids sled with one ski in the air (direct hit bottom of my ski into the back of his bumper, long story , folded his rear bumper (REV chasis by the way, much stouter rear bumper than XP).

nothing that you SEE is bent. Ski Doo made the S module to bend 1st, before the E module. When you add braces to S module, the energy HAS to go somewhere. Next down the line is the E module. I talked to a very good DOO guy and he straightens a lot of chassis due to Braces. This is the kind of work I do for a living, but for cars, so you couldn't give me a pair to put on my sled. Few hrs to replace and s module is much easier than doing an E, and its only $300

Cars are built the same way, crumple zones to soak up the energy of impact, which leaves the cab in tact and passengers safe. You beef up fenders, the cab will take more of the hit

 

[mtsummitx]

Again, if you look at the pic I posted again, the grip n rip system is 2 pieces. An S-mod brace and an E-mod brace. You can use the E-mod brace without the S-mod brace. But if you want to use the S-mod brace, you have to use the E-mod brace in conjunction with it. So, that tells me that they know if you were to soley brace the S-mod you would trash your E-mod, therefore the reason why if you wish to brace your S-mod with their system you have to also brace your E-mod. Not trying to sell Grip N Rip, just seems like a good system to me.

 

[Blk88GT]

I put these braces on my sled before I ever took it out. They saved my bacon in Island Park a few weeks ago. My M7 would have folded up with the same hit.

 

[backcountryislife]

Having just gone though this I'll offer what I got out of it.

There's no one solution, period.

Brace it, both S/E mod brace(what mtsummitx posted) & upper A arm brace, and then the Alt impact arms give a little in an impact at the rod end, and the arm itself is also a little softer than stock... each helps some.

There are also other options for braces, fett bros belly brace, the Racewerx brace/ skidplate/ bumper that I run... GNR is just one of the options, but it's a good one.

 

[Tahoepow]

My last sled was a 06 Rev and I added alt-impact arms to help protect the flying nun to front end hits. Logic being the arms would bent instead of the front frame. Plus they were more narrow and made the sled perform better. I never hit much to find out if my $500 investment paid off. Sled sold.
Bought new XM this season and installed the 3 gNr braces in hopes to save the front end. I believe it takes the right "hit" to do the bad damage. Usually its a counter steer turn in powder with your hand on the throttle. Who ever does that?? I did it a month ago and tagged a stump under the snow. Not too hard, but the classic hit. Looked down at my skis and one was farther back than the other. My $GOD$ I thought. As my polaris friend laughted at me. I flipped the sled over and saw I only bent the L lower a-arm.
I'm guessing the gNr braces helped. Shock is not centered anymore, ski is back a little and I'm still riding it. $160 a-arm to install and prob bend again is not gonna happen this season. If I do, I'll find out if the sled is truly straight.

 

[Err]

LeviD & anyone else that isn't quite sure if they've bent their s-module. Typically you want to look at the shock's position within the a-arms on each side. The shock should be centered front-to-rear in the top a-arm on each side. If it's not, it's usually a good indication that something is bent. The variance that you're looking for is often only 5-10 mm but it can be as extreme as the shock spring actually rubbing the a-arm. Generally on one side the shock will be shifted towards the front of the a-arm and on the other side it will be shifted towards the rear. Beyond this, it can get a bit interesting to find further evidence in the s-module its self. Often you'll find ever some buckling near where the a-arms mount on the s-module. Sometimes it seem that the s-module just gives a little throughout the component where it's very difficult to see evidence of bending in any one spot.

As for cost. Yes, the s-module its self is inexpensive at $2-300 depending on sled and deal you're getting. The labor on the other hand has been quoted to me at around $1000 by multiple shops. If you have the time and resources to replace the s-module yourself that's awesome and a huge savings. I do most of my own wrenching but this is a pretty big job and so for most of us, it's a $1200+ repair.

I just want to make it very clear that I'm not associated with Alternative Impacts or anyone else making parts to deal with this issue. No front here, just an honest discussion around how to avoid unnecessary damage where possible. I've also met and fellow and discussed at length a really crappy situation where a brand new Pro was totaled with less than 20 miles on it at very low speed because it took a hit just wrong. There's no guarantees when it comes to running into rocks but some level of insurance sure helps me sleep better

 

[Err]

Having just gone though this I'll offer what I got out of it.

There's no one solution, period.

Brace it, both S/E mod brace(what mtsummitx posted) & upper A arm brace, and then the Alt impact arms give a little in an impact at the rod end, and the arm itself is also a little softer than stock... each helps some.

There are also other options for braces, fett bros belly brace, the Racewerx brace/ skidplate/ bumper that I run... GNR is just one of the options, but it's a good one.

Yeah, I saw your recent mishap, sorry to hear about that. I think we met in person on the lifts at the WP bike park a couple summers ago. Thanks for the input and I tend to agree with you that the "~solution" is probably several steps, not just 1.

 

[Err]

I don't have a huge amount of in stock right now but we have parts going to the coater almost daily so if its something you decide to do I would be happy to help out. Were really proud of the fact that this system works so well, it really does. Although most think its "all" in the rod end design the actual configuration of the arm in this particular case ( wall thickness, tube size and placement) plays an important role as well. Each manufacturer requires different needs in terms of strength on these parts, and the Ski Doo whether it be a Rev, Xp, or Xm we all know has a very fragile bulkhead. Thanks!

Dan

Do you have any detailed pics of how your system works? I've seen your site but I can't quite make out the details of your system. Maybe I'm just looking at the wrong page? Do you offer or recommend braces in conjunction with your arms?

 

[backcountryislife]

Yeah, I saw your recent mishap, sorry to hear about that. I think we met in person on the lifts at the WP bike park a couple summers ago. Thanks for the input and I tend to agree with you that the "~solution" is probably several steps, not just 1.

haha... that is very likely!!


I bought a ktm this summer, and can leave from the house now... it's an ugly addiction, way worse than DH I kinda miss trestle, but I sure do love riding right from the door!!

I'm definitely looking forward to the first time my rod end on my alt impact arms bend... almost excited about it!!! I think if you make the sled stronger & arms weaker, it all adds up.