Backup Power for PIDD

[Cinno]

I've got a 2016 Axis RMK with Interactive Digital Display (IDD) without electric start. I found it quite annoying that when reversing the motor the IDD re-boots and it takes a few minutes to require satellites. The GPS track has a lot of lost data. I found an easy/cheap way to provide battery power. I used an 8xAA battery holder with DC plug. Got it at Digi-Key(BK-030-ND) for ~$6. Also ordered a female DC plug to pigtail cable(DiGi-Key #839-1144-ND) for ~$3. Bought a ATO in-line fuse holder and 2A fuse at local auto parts store for ~$6. I used a couple of red quick splice connectors (22-18 ga) to splice into the wiring harness below the IDD on the back side of the hood. I stripped back the friction tape covering the harness, exposing all the wiring. The (+) side of the battery is spliced onto the fuse holder using a butt splice. The other side of the fuse holder is spliced onto grey/red wire. You can easily find the grey/rd wire as it is attached to one of the two diode assemblies buried in the hood wiring harness. These diode assemblies have SAE DC plugs. They are used to isolate battery power from sled power going to the IDD display. Whichever source is greater goes to the display by way of the key switch. The (-) side of the battery is spliced into the brown wire (sled ground). I Installed 8 Energizer L91BP-8 Ultimate Lithium AA Batteries. Got them on amazon for $13. I measured the current draw on the IDD and it was 0.4 amps. These batteries have ~3.5 AH so above 0 DegF should last about 8 hours. How long they will last below zero has yet to be determined.

By the way the battery pack is stored in the heated compartment on top of the display for easy access. I drilled a 7/8 hole in the rear of this compartment. Amazingly there was an unused hole plug on the USB cable leading to the display. I cut it off the hole plug from the usb cable and used it for the DC cable.

You can also use rechargeable AA batteries in the pack or replace the entire pack with dedicated nimh or lithium batteries packs that are rechargeable from dedicated AC charger. I considered using the sled to charge the packs but I determined all rechargeable battery packs (lithium/nihm) can be discharged below freezing but cannot charge below freezing. Edited 10/18/16 (Not entirely true as EarthX has a battery, see post #12 below)

Regards,
Cinno



Cinno

 

[SRXSRULE]

This is exactly why I dont upgrade to this gauge. I can only imagine how many times a day I use reverse and shut the sled off.

Anyway.... In regards to not using rechargeable batteries. The power wire that you hooked into to power up the gauge, Doesnt that have 14(ish) volts on it when the sled is running? Eric

 

[Cinno]

Nope there is no power on this wire without the oem battery installed.

Cinco

 

[Cinno]

The grey/red wire is isolated from the alternator power by the two diodes I mentioned in my first post

Cinno

 

[SRXSRULE]

The grey/red wire is isolated from the alternator power by the two diodes I mentioned in my first post

Cinno

Ok, I didn't read the details close enough.

Nice job. Let us know how it works for you.
Eric.

 

[Cinno]

Another note about rechargeable batteries;

The only rechargeable battery I could find that is suitable for charging at extreme cold using the sled alternator is a lead acid battery. The stock OEM battery is ~19 ah and is big, heavy and over kill for backup power for the IDD. I looked at a 0.8AH sealed lead acid (SLA) battery that could be mounted on the side of the belt cover but it was so small that if you left it in a discharged state at extreme cold it would freeze the electrolyte, permanently damaging the battery. The other problem is charging a small battery. The smaller the battery the lower the max charging current it can handle. The sled alternator would over charge it, therefore a dedicated dc-dc charger would be necessary. The best compromise I could find was a 5ah SLA battery, sealed box and dedicated charger all contained and sold as a Trailer Breakaway Kit. You can get them from etrailer.com in the $80 dollar range. The only problem is mounting location? I don't like the OEM location as you have to purchase all the mounting brackets to get it to fit. You also have to remove the brackets and battery to change the quick drive belt. I think the best location would be on the inside of the belt holder. Build something to re-enforce the cover to handle the larger battery. Cover the enclosure with aluminum tape to lower the heat.

As far as electrical goes you need a cable, fuse, 12vdc relay, and molex connector to mate to the OEM electric start connector. You can buy the OEM harness for ~$99 but the parts can be sourced individually for about ~$20. If you need the p/n's send me a message.

Cinno

 

[shattuck]

Excalibur's Avatar


I just did this method how long will this battery last? Will I melt it due to overcharging?



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This is what I did. Works great. Also it charges correctly with the factory harness!



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ES harness from Polaris #2413091, $99.99 list price. This is on back order but I still got mine within two weeks of ordering. Seems like a lot to pay..... but it does complete the charge circuit has a inline 2amp mini blade fuse and no guessing on schematics!

The main plug in left side of photo plugs into factory harness above brake caliper. The red wire top of photo with male bullet connector connects to the battery positive (red wire). The brown wire in bottom of photo with eyelet connects to battery negative (black wire) and I also ran a ground wire to chassis. You will have to match connectors of you choice on the battery leads to the harness positive and negative wires.

Trail Tech 12V 3700mAh NiMH Battery 20 oz $59.95 (I had it leftover from a dirt bike project)
Trail tech Battery Bag & mount$19.95

I used the existing thread inserts on the back side of the foot stirrup to secure the trail tech mount and added a third bolt lower into the foot well kick plate (obviously, do not leave a bolt protruding into the battery or your foot)

The battery needs a full charge before use!
Zip tie harness and wires up tight and ready to go! No rebooting when going into reverse, easier to learn the gauge functions with out running the motor, updates etc. It works well
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[User Name]

There are a couple other solutions out there:

Polaris' Official Solution

Excalibur's solution (also posted directly above)

 

[Cinno]

Read the articles below about charging NIMH batteries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel–metal_hydride_battery

"In general, a constant-voltage charging method cannot be used for automatic charging. When fast charging, it is advisable to charge the NiMH cells with a smart battery charger to avoid overcharging, which can damage cells.[15]"

The alternator on the sled is a constant voltage source with no provision for stopping the charge when the battery is fully charged. It also cannot limit the charging current if you have a deeply discharged battery. Excessive charging current on these batteries can rupture the battery causing electrolyte leakage.

"One inherent risk with NiMH chemistry is that overcharging causes hydrogen gas to form, potentially rupturing the cell. Therefore, cells have a vent to release the gas in the event of serious overcharging."

[15] https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidsa/files/panasonic_nimh_chargemethods.pdf

The article above mentions that below 0DegC (32) degF you must NOT fast charge, only triple charge. Again there is no provision on the sled to switch from rapid to trickle charge based on temperature.

Cinno

 

[shattuck]

Perfect I just wasted a bunch of money . Can I just cut the harness charging wire now? I guess I could just trickle charge every night. Sad thing is I did two sleds. If I can cut the charging wire which one is it?

 

[Cinno]

Just pull the charging relay out of the electric start harness and your good. Cinno

 

[User Name]

Thanks for the helpful information.

Another note about rechargeable batteries;

The only rechargeable battery I could find that is suitable for charging at extreme cold using the sled alternator is a lead acid battery. The stock OEM battery is ~19 ah and is big, heavy and over kill for backup power for the IDD. I looked at a 0.8AH sealed lead acid (SLA) battery that could be mounted on the side of the belt cover but it was so small that if you left it in a discharged state at extreme cold it would freeze the electrolyte, permanently damaging the battery.

How about a battery from Earth X? I don't know much about batteries but it seems like it could work. They are quite light so weight isn't an issue as much as price. I believe the recommended replacement for ES models is $350. Are you able to tell if they make a more affordable option that powers the IDD and is charged by the stator?

 

[Cinno]

Well I sent off an email to EarthX last night and I got a response this morning saying they have a batteries that would work in a snowmobile application. The smallest is there ETX12A at 4AH. There batteries have a built in microprocessor based protection circuit to prevent damage as a result of over temp and over charging. The price for this small battery is $169. Ouch ! So the only problem is mounting. Its 4.5in (L) x 2.6in (W) x 3.7in (H), and weighs 1.6 lbs. Maybe make up a battery bracket out of alum and attach it to the belt holder under the hood. Re-enforce the holder so it can handle the additional overhanging weight. OR mount it back at the OEM location. Well its do-able but kinda pricey.

Cinno

 

[User Name]

Sounds like a few of us sent them an email. They passed along the same info. Price is about what I expected it to be (but still not low) based on their replacement battery for es models. I'll probably end up picking this up as my sled is kept in storage near the trailhead with no electricity and I'm too forgetful to remember to bring new batteries. Stock location will likely be too big. Belt holder may be the right spot but I'll have to take a closer look or do some thinking.

 

[idahosledder]

I just ordered the kit from Polaris, 2882200. Even if I dont use whatever bracket it comes with its about the same price as just the harness so I will give it a shot.
I also have a small Duracell 1.3Ah sealed lead acid battery I am going to try.
Its small enough I shouldn't really need a battery mount but we'll see.
It is only about 1 1/2" by 3 3/34". Its also AGM so hopefully it will stand up top the conditions better.
I am hoping the regulator on the sled will keep from overcharging the battery.
$20 bucks at batteries plus.
https://www.batteriesplus.com/battery/sla-sealed-lead-acid/duracell-ultra/12/slaa12=1.3f

 

[Cinno]

let us know whats in the kit when you get it. If its got more than just the harness then maybe its worth it.

Cinno

 

[Killer Time Racing]

Man I know Milliohms or Cathodes or whatever but after all this and a battery why not just install Electric Start ???

 

[shattuck]

Man I know Milliohms or Cathodes or whatever but after all this and a battery why not just install Electric Start ???

I don't want the weight and I'm still plenty capable of pulling the rope but I admit at times e start would be nice.

 

[idahosledder]

I never thought I would say this, but as light weight as the electric start is getting my next sled will probably have one.
But, I am getting old and worn out, so there's that.

Besides, with all the extra tools and parts and beer and food that I carry, its really not much more at this point.

 

[shattuck]

I hooked up my trail tech battery and it worked good so I put it on a battery tender charger over night and I think I fried the battery it was really hot by morning so I guess these battery's need a special charger too. This is turning into the project from hell. Now I'm going to try the AA battery method.