Avalanche courses--Are they necessary?

[muttrmk]

I ride with a beacon, shovel, probe and partners who carry the same. I have read people ranting and raving about that not being enough and to take a course. I have read my manual on the beacon and practiced.

I have taken an avalanche awareness course (notice that I didn't call it a rescue course) last weekend and realized that the ranter and ravers are right. A course does more than teach you how to recover or save somebody. It teaches you how to notice signs that will keep you alive. We need to have the mindset that we will not survive an avalanche and not take the risk when the signs are there.

Don't be like me and blow these warnings off. Out of the 14 deaths from avalanches just so far this year, Washington has had 9 of them (9 out of 14). Take a day off of your busy schedule and go to a course. You learn some very valuable tips. I learned that I have been very lucky so far not to have been involved in one already. You may think that the risk only affects you, but it also involves your family, friends and the risk to any rescuer as well.

Thanks for listening. I vowed to make this post when I went to the course.
Jason.

 

[PCDOC]

I have been heading the mtns for about 8 years now and my buddies and I are taking out first class this weekend. We are not big high markers so it really hasn't been an issue, but I want the extra info the class will give. We all carry the proper equipment and hope we never have to use it. I won't be digging pits to check for slope stability after this course either. We just enjoy the deep snow and if a hill looks even close to too steep or like it will slide we go around it.

I pray our group never needs the skills we will learn, but if the problem ever arises we will be better prepared.

 

[SnowBigDeal]

Definitely take a class! The best way to survive an avalanche is to not get caught in one!

Mike Duffy puts on a great class specifically for snowmobilers. You can send him an email at duffyww1@aol.com or PM snowww1 on here to see when/where he is still doing classes.

If you get a chance take a Level I class too! That will give you some time in the outdoors to practice and just helps that much more to make informed decisions in the backcountry.

 

[muttrmk]

PCDOC--What I learned, and you will too, is that most avalanches occur in relatively low angle hills (25-60 degrees). Nobody plans on getting involved in an avalanche and I will not be digging to check for stability but there are other ways to check, such as weather changes, starting on cutting across a smaller hill that will not pose as much danger should a fall occur.

Have fun with your course.

 

[CatWoman]

Good post Jason!

I'm not advising not to dig pits......but as I put on another thread.....most people do this a lot while riding, in the form of trenches from the machines. You can really have some deep ones if you get stuck, and you'll already be standing in the hole to get the sled out....so pretty easy to take a look at the snow layers while you're there. Even if you don't get stuck, I've seen some DEEP trenches left by my riding partners or myself (as I'm sure you all have). Take advantage of the hole already dug (if it's safe to do so).

Sandy

 

[FastM8]

I believe that if you are planning on playing in the mountains in the winter, then taking a avy course is a must. Even if you don't climb much, you may end up riding under a avalanche paths and not even know it. The other thing you have to realize is predicting whether or not a slope will slide is never 100% accurate, even with digging pits and checking the snow layers...slides can still occur....You should always have a escape plan.

 

[up-high]

I have been heading the mtns for about 8 years now and my buddies and I are taking out first class this weekend. We are not big high markers so it really hasn't been an issue, but I want the extra info the class will give. We all carry the proper equipment and hope we never have to use it. I won't be digging pits to check for slope stability after this course either. We just enjoy the deep snow and if a hill looks even close to too steep or like it will slide we go around it.

I pray our group never needs the skills we will learn, but if the problem ever arises we will be better prepared.

Just because you don't himark, doesn't mean you don't ride in dangerous terrain. And, as stated, steep isn't necessarily the problem. I can't look at a hill and tell if its going to slide or not. Maybe you can?
Enjoy the avy class. It will be an eye opener!

 

[colorado_matt]

For sure! There are so many informative points and knowledge on avys that I never even thought about before I took the class. There's no such thing as being over prepared.

 

[RMG]

Took a course last year and not only was it very informative but we had a blast doing mock rescues! I'll go every year just to keep refreshed.

 

[Flange]

Good post! I couldn't agree more. Took a course and even after reading a couple of books prior to the course, I still learned a ton of stuff. I got alot out of the time we spent on the mountain. The multiple burial practice was an eye opener. Its amazing how panic'd and un-organized a group can get...even during a practice (assuming your taking everything seriously). For those that ride in the back country and don't think they are at risk because "they don't himark"....your kidding yourselves. Besides, if you have the proper training, you can always help someone else in the event of a slide.

 

[Ex-Member]

Avalanche courses--Are they necessary?

Yes.

That is all.

 

[MARCUSO]

Taking a course next week

I have been riding for some years now, and have seen a small slide, probably 2 feet deep at the bottom. I have been fortunate.

I am going with some friends to a zacs course, not because I see all the stats this year, I have to admit I have been putting it off for quite some time.
I know it won't make me a more agressive rider, or highmark more, or do more careless things because the snow tests safe... it is more for knowledge, which is invaluable and a vital tool to look for the signs to stay off of the slopes.

For the most part, like Flange pointed out... The confusion, knowledge and the drills.
It is like first aid, it is something you never want to have to partake in, but if it happens I can at least be somewhat prepared.

 

[themtguide]

you ride in the mountains??? TAKE THE COURSE!!!!!!

 

[muttrmk]

ttt

 

[deadcat]

Yes, ignorance is for idiots.

 

[RMG]

So a few posts back I chimed in about how informative the classes are and how much fun we had with the mock rescues.......Most people read about the Windy Pass avy last weekend. The same riding partners that took the avy class with me were were involved with that rescue. Now I can say with experience that the classes are a MUST! We probably could have got the job done anyway but the training may have made a difference. This is a situation when bumbbling around can cost a life. Every minute counts. The things learned like making sure all beacons are in search mode, how to assemble your probes and shovels, and most likely places to start search can make a big difference. We were organized and had the victim out within 10 min. of our arrival. This guy did not have much time left. Not posting to flaunt myself or partners as heros, just passing along a lesson we learned. At the end of the day, driving home we were all spent but feeling proud. I don't even want to know how it would feel had the outcome been different.

 

[ClimbinApex]

Wow, I am not going to mock you, and I hope you don't take offense to this, but I can NOT believe you actually asked if an avalanche course is necessary.

I have been riding in the mountains for about 25 years, and have been in Search and rescue for going on 14 years. My VERY FIRST CALLOUT was a double fatality avalanche with 2 snowmobiliers.
This hill was about 34 degrees in slope, and ran for about 200 yards. The first guy was up against a tree on top of the slide at the very end, but the force of the slide blew him into the tree and killed him. The second guy was 17 (yes, seventeen) feet down around a pine tree about 30 inches in diameter. It took almost 9 days to find him.

I have been Avalanche Rescue II certified for about 7 years now, and take multiple refreshers, and practice with my avalanche beacon WEEKLY AT HOME! If your friend cannot find your beacon in the back yard in less than a couple very short minutes, do you think he's going to find your cold butt in 10 feet of snow? I think not.

If anyone in Utah is interested, I can set up a couple hour avalanche awareness class with the folks from the Utah Avalanche center at Weber State University and you can judge for your self.

Let me know, I'd be happy to set it up.

Sorry to rant and rave, but I'm tired of looking for people in avalanches that think just because they have a beacon shovel and probe that it's going to save thier life.

Thanks!!
Branden

 

[Perk]

Take a class, practice with your beacon, make your riding buddies do the same, and learn to enjoy boondockin and jumping.

We all need to improve our odds by climbing less. I used to spend my entire day bangin hills. I have found that I get more enjoyment out of researching the areas I ride on google earth and using that information to explore new areas and shortcuts that eliminate more of the trail (Trinities!!)

Anyway, back to your original question...take the class. But I have a feeling you already knew the answer to that question.

Here is a shot of me and my riding buddies doin lunch. I won using my Ortovox X1.

Have a safe season,
Perk

 

[PCDOC]

I see a couple people responded to my post. I didn't try to come off as high and mighty concerning avy's. Just from riding out west for so many years I had a good idea of what is questionable. I have only seen a couple of small slides (hardly even classified as an avy). So I am far from an expert, but our group is fairly cautious. We only ride a trail long enough to find a spot to jump off and then we make our own trails all day.

Yes the course should be manditory if you plan on riding out west. It was a great eye opener and I learned alot. What I didn't realize is that the fresh deeeep snow is the worst to play in on any type of slope. (providing the base layers are weak) I kinda thought since it was so fluffy and fresh that is was safe. WRONG Our group has a new respect for the mtns. If we are ever involved in one or see another group in one, hopefully what we learned can save a life.
Everyone needs to respect the mtns and use common sense - unfortunately that is in short supply for some people.

Mike Duffy did a great job with the class and I would attend another one from him if he ever makes it back here.

 

[catssuk]

how can you get a corse set up in a state with no mountains[wis] we definatly have enuf people who could attend[10-15] that i no of in a 30 mile area by me alone.