Avalanche Beacon or Airbag?

[avalanchesafety.ca]

You are assuming that others in your group have a beacon and in my opinion you are also putting too much trust in it. Looking at the stats a beacon does not improve your chances by that much, if you are buried (or one of your friends is) your mortality rate does not drop that much. Thinking about my friends, i am not being selfish when i chose the airbag. With an airbag i feel i am likley more help to the group as a whole.

If you are buried you make the problem much worse (for everyone, not just you), if you are on the surface you can potentially help others out and avoid a very bad situation. During a small group rescue or organized search there is usally only one or two people searching with the beacon and others can assemble probes and shovels, get first aid gear, call for help, etc. If everyone is searching this is not necessarily the most effective use of resources. So you can play an important and necessary role even without a transceiver. (unless your in a group of 2).

Medical help and evacuation are a key component to an avalanche rescue which are ofen overlooked. Approximately 50% of the time an avalanche victim ends up on the surface, in many of the incidents i know about, and the one serious one i was involved with, the person ended up on the surface but needed critical first aid.

There was a incident at a heliskiing company 2 springs ago where a group of 6 heliskiers was caught. The guide was wearing an airbag, deployed it, ended up on the suface and was able to dig out two guests. Unfortunately 2 more people in the group died. I know the coroner looking at the incident attributes the guides life and the life of the two he digged up to the airbag. If he had just had a beacon this might of been a different story.

As well as avalanche safety we should be promoting and talking about first aid skills which are often overlooked but are imperitive for most avalanche victims, buried or on the surface. Everyone out there should know how to treat hypothermia patients, basic trauma injuries, and severe bleeds.

Anyways don't want to beat a hypothetical situation to death but hopefully it gets people thinking. Just get both, in my eyes they are both essential safety items which i would not go into the backcountry without. Now signing out of this topic. Way too many variables and too hypothetical. Again, don't choose, get both, its the responsible thing to do for everyone you ride with.

This is where we have a different opinion. If everything in life were always about me, then an airbag would be the way to go. However, what am I saying about how much I value the lives of those I ride with if I choose an airbag over a beacon? I agree that an airbag will be more effective in saving my own life, but in order to save others in your group or even others that aren't in your group, you need to have a beacon! Practice with your beacon so that it becomes second nature.
Again, my preference is to ride with both a beacon and an airbag, but if I HAD to chose between purchasing one or the other, it would be a beacon.

 

[Sxrlar]

A few thoughts from a flatlander who has only been out west twice in 10 years. We rented beacons both times, also had shovels, and probes. If I could afford to go out there once a year every year, I would buy both a beacon and the airbag, without even thinking about it.

I see on the forums here a lot of posts on performance products being bought and installed, but not a lot of talk about "hey, I just bought an ABS pack" Seems like guys will drop a couple grand to get themselves up the mountain further, but won't spend the money to save their own life. As far as buying a pack for the whole family, yea, that is a lot of coin for sure. But, how much does a funeral cost?

 

[PowderProject]

I use both and have done for the past four years. I sell all avalanche safety equipment, am a distributor for snowpulse airbags, a professional member of the Canadian Avalanche Association, and teach loads of avalanche courses.

This is purely my opinion but if i really had to choose for me it would be a no brainer, and i would go for the airbag. The reason is simple; if i am caught in an avalanche i have a way better chance of living by having an airbag on than i do with a beacon.

I have done a lot of research into airbags and beacons and i will give you a quick run down from the Time is Life DVD, which is edited and approved by the International Commission of Alpine Rescue. ICAR – MEDCOM, CISA-IKAR Avalanche Commission. SWISS Stats. 2005.

They examined 2000 Avalanche incidents and found the following:

"Overall there was a 22% mortality rate.
- Only 4.4% of people who were not buried, or only partially buried died!
- 51.3% chance of death for people who were completely buried.

1991-2004: 77 reports of airbag inflation.
76 Survived, 1 Died
10 completely buried but airbags were visible on the surface.
9 cases where airbags were not deployed.

The same avalanches caught 25 people who were not wearing airbags. Of these 12 were completely buried, 9 were found dead.

Airbags lowered the probability of a complete burial from 47.1% to 13% and the mortality rate 35.3% to 1.3%!

ICAR conclusion : Statistical evidence for airbags is good to very good. “It is the device of choice”.

Point of Interest: Same study revealed transceivers reduced the median burial time 170-20 minutes, but the mortality rate only 79% to 50%!"


The point is if you are buried your chances are not great with or without a beacon. I believe these stats are a little off now (likely a slightly better chance for a buried vicitm) as beacon technology gets better and more importantly people get better at using them. We are also now greatly improving shovelling techniques which can make up a lot of time.

If the experts at ICAR who spend their lives looking at this stuff believe that an airbag is the "device of choice", i will take their word for it. As well i have seen the videos of the airbag testing and done some myself and it is amazing at how effective they are. There seems to be a bit of a myth out there about how effective beacons are. Yes they help, but not really that much. If you are deeply buried you are still screwed. If i had to guess i would say that the majority of avalanche victims here in Canada were wearing a beacon, that is just a hunch.

As a final summary, use all the equipment, practice with it, and take an avalanche skills training course if you haven't done so in the last couple of years to keep up to date on all the technology changes and new rescue techniques. If you can afford to sled my guess is that you can afford the safety equipment.

Excellent information. Thank you Having been in two major avalanches that had taken the life of one, I certainly appreciate this info. I am praying for a safe year. I hope the airbags do come down in price. Lower cost of bags will send the overall survival rate through the roof. Thanks again

 

[PassRev]

This is where we have a different opinion. If everything in life were always about me, then an airbag would be the way to go. However, what am I saying about how much I value the lives of those I ride with if I choose an airbag over a beacon? I agree that an airbag will be more effective in saving my own life, but in order to save others in your group or even others that aren't in your group, you need to have a beacon! Practice with your beacon so that it becomes second nature.
Again, my preference is to ride with both a beacon and an airbag, but if I HAD to chose between purchasing one or the other, it would be a beacon.

I share your opinion here.
Everyone I ride with has a beacon, knows how to use it.
Owning a beacon in association with others you ride with excepts two ideas. First, that you will work to save their lives, and second, they yours. Additionally, the single best tool any of us have is our own ability to make good judgements based on observation and evaluation of conditions and terrain, and making the right choices to avoid putting ourselves in a position to use these tools in the first place.

 

[AkHockey10]

Who in the hell sleds and doesn't use a beacon?

Read "The Snowy Torrents" and take note of how many people have died, and how many of those deaths could have been prevented by avi knowledge and use of a beacon.


If you don't use a beacon in avalanche terrain, you're a complete moron.

I have a buddy who doesnt have one. His words are, and I quote "I dont really need a beacon because, I only go into avy risk places maybe, three times a year (which is true) and they are kind of expensive." Then, a couple months later he buys a $10,000 4-place enclosed and he bought a new mountain sled this summer!! When he does come and ride with us in those avy risk places, we have an extra beacon that we give him for the ride or if we know he is going, we will let him borrow it.

We tell him over and over and over again, that what if you dont have a beacon and the rest of us get trapped in a slide or some of us get trapped. Now what??? think about that. He keeps talking about how he will buy one, even though he keeps saying that he will every year and its been 4 years and counting sad.

 

[WARY]

We don’t think the Avalanche Airbag manufacturers are greedy, we think they are trying to save lives. The point is that it is very, very difficult to manufacture a complicated product like this in Europe and sell it in North America. We have been trying to develop a $500 device for over 5 years now and we can tell you it is extremely hard to do, but we are close.

The fact remains that as long as avalanche airbags cost a thousand dollars or more, the average person won’t buy them. Last time we heard there were 10,000 avalanche beacons sold each year. There are only hundreds of avalanche airbags sold each year, otherwise you would see more of them. Why are they so expensive? Manufacturing in Europe is much more expensive than it is in North America. In addition to this you have to ship the products to North America and pay import duty on them. There are very large bills accumulated in developing the airbag for sale to the public; engineering, prototyping, machining, molds, fabric, cylinders, rent, machinery, legal fees and a lot more. Once you’ve got something you need to test it in actual avalanches. Some companies limit their testing to smaller avalanches produced by hand charges (like those used by ski patrollers inside ski resorts to make the area safe) and some companies create larger more realistic slides to test their bags (this is what we do) and some companies don’t test anymore because their airbags are used in actual emergencies and have proven to save lives (ABS).

The avalanche airbag has at least 3 distinct advantages over avalanche beacons:

1) Avalanche Airbags are proactive, not reactive. In other words by using an airbag you are doing something to avoid being buried, as opposed to using something that only helps you after you are buried.
2) The Avalanche Airbag is extremely visible after a slide, making it much easier and faster for help to reach you.
3) Avalanche Airbags require no training in their use. You just pull the handle and off it goes. Avalanche beacons require training and practice or you might as well leave it at home.

One day avalanche airbags will be as common as avalanche beacons, and on that day a lot less people will be getting themselves killed in slides.

 

[TIM]

question for you folks:

What good is a beacon without probes and shovels?

I see alot of people talking about beacons but forget about the other tools of the trade.

 

[MARCUSO]

Put it this way...

Would YOU rather ride with someone who:
1. Has just a beacon
2. has just an airbag


To have a beacon, you can save another, unlike an airbag.... sure if you have a bag and survive, what tools do you have to locate others??

What if you are riding, and saw a slide from afar.,., and have no way to even try to locate, let alone help someone? I think that helplessness would haunt you for the rest of your days.
It all bends upon non-selfishness for me/. Then again, I would almost rather have the people riding with me to have the better rescue equipment than me, 'cause they are the ones that are going to dig my arse out..

I would even recommend Avalanche training over an air bag.

Don't get me wrong, an airbag increases your chances, but to say it can alone help increase others'.... that is an untrue statement.

 

[tudizzle]

Anybody riding a $10k sled pulled to the mountain in a $5k trailer by a $40k truck and claims they cannot afford both is full of sheat!

at the very least a beacon....

 

[Beartoothclimb]

1) Avalanche Airbags are proactive, not reactive. In other words by using an airbag you are doing something to avoid being buried, as opposed to using something that only helps you after you are buried.

I think you could also consider the bag reactive since you are initiating it after you are caught in the slide in the first place.

I think airbags are a great leap forward in technology and will save lives.

But personally i think more people should spend money on better educating themselves on terrain and snowpack so as to avoid situations where a ride may occur as opposed to just dropping a couple hundred on a airbag and beacon and leaving it at that.

 

[PowderProject]

1) Avalanche Terrain Awareness

2) Beacon,Shovel,Probe,Airbag

Take an avie class or read a book. Become educated on picking and choosing your way through the mountains. You would be surprised on how many avalanches you would NEVER see with a bit of avie education. Stay off starting zones, be aware of the interaction of radiation with the snow cover, hoar frost, etc.. So many things to be aware of when going out in avalanche terrain. Get educated, and protect yourself and your buddies you ride with.
Take my word for it. There is never a more sickening, hopeless feeling when you witness an avalanche bury someone close to you. Don't let it happen to you. Do your best to prevent it.

One more thing.. An airbag will not help you if you are sitting at the bottom of a slide path. DO NOT sit at the base of a slide path while watching your buddy high mark. Even if conditions are low danger, get out of the way. You will be covered by the deepest snow when the avalanche finally comes to rest. My 2cents Lets play it safe everyone, think snow!!

 

[skibreeze]

Peoples perception is their reality.
I saw a buddy of mine buried, with nothing but his head exposed.
I got to probe for a guy a few years ago, no beacon, he didn't make it.

My reality is that people in our sport die from ignorance, stupidity, and bad luck.
My reality is that the proper education, preparation, and equipment is vital to improving your odds of coming home.
My reality is that a beacon, probe, and shovel are the minimun REQUIRED equipment in the mountains.
My reality is that spending a grand on an abs bag is a bargain.

What's your perception?.... That it could never happen to you. Reality says it could.

 

[snowww1]

I'll keep this brief. Many good points made here.

- Take an avalanche class.

- Buy a beacon first, with a shovel and probe.

- One minute after buying a beacon, buy an abs pack. In five to ten years most of us will own one.

- Don't ride with people who do not carry a beacon, shovel and probe. Make sure the people you ride with have avalanche training and are trained and practiced in rescue. Better yet, make sure they can recognize signs of instability, avalanche terrain, trigger points, terrain traps and how best to handle a group in avalanche terrain.

If all snowmobilers did this, we would not be number one for avalanche fatalities.

I own an abs pack.

Mike Duffy
avalanche instructor

 

[Ex-Member]

If all snowmobilers did this, we would not be number one for avalanche fatalities.

Just out of curiosity... If snowmobilers are #1, i'm guessing backcountry skiers are #2? What about #3?

Good post btw.

 

[WARY]

We think avalanche airbags are proactive because you pull the rip-cord before the slide hits you, or you pull the cord just as you yourself start the avalanche. We think avalanche beacons are reactive as they are only used after the avalanche has finished. Meaning that you can do something for yourself before you get engulfed by the slide.

There’s no argument that sitting on top of the stopped avalanche without a beacon and not being able to find your buried buddies is foolish, and every one of us who use avalanche airbags have a beacon on us. So by wearing an avalanche airbag you are in a position to go search for your buried buddies, instead of being buried with them.

You would be crazy and selfish to only ride with an airbag and no beacon.

So to answer the question, in our opinion, buy an avalanche beacon first, then an airbag if you can afford it.

But if you think avalanche airbags aren’t worth it, consider this:

From 1991 to 2006 there were exactly 100 known avalanche accidents where the victim was wearing an ABS Avalanche Airbag. In these 100 avalanches there were 123 airbags used (some slides had multiple airbags involved in them). Of these 123 victims only 5 people died. That’s a 4% death rate when using an airbag. Of the 5 people who died, 4 of their systems were not deployed, and only one person with a fully inflated avalanche airbag was buried and died.

 

[snowww1]

Backcountry skiers are usually number 2, followed by snowboarders or climbers. Two years ago snowmobilers surpassed the combined total for skiers and snowboarders combined. Last year was a record year for avalanche fatalities in the US.

 

[WARY]

Some new stuff just came out from the American Avalanche Association in their journal “The Avalanche Review” about snowmobiler and skier/snowboarder avalanche deaths.

In the last 10 years, the avalanche death statistics reveal that “snowmobilers do not account for significantly more deaths than non-motorized backcountry travelers.” From 1997 to 2007 eighty percent (80%) of backcountry skiing deaths were caused by avalanches, while the remaining twenty percent of the deaths were caused by falls and Non Avalanche Related Snow Immersion Deaths. NARSID deaths are caused by someone skiing, boarding or snowmobiling too close to a tree well, falling in and getting buried. There are about 3 skiers a year killed by NARSID accidents, and they mainly occur within the bounds of ski areas. Watch those tree wells…….

As opposed to this skier/boarder statistic, only ten percent (10%) of all snowmachiner deaths over the last 10 years involved avalanche accidents, while ninety percent (90%) of all snowmobiler deaths were non-avalanche related.

This data seems to challenge the many press reports claiming that snowmobilers are more dangerous in the backcountry than their buddies on skis and boards.

 

[snowww1]

Last year snowmobilers were about 37% of the total avalanche fatalities in the US.

The two previous winters, we accounted for 50% of the fatalities.

Even though last year was only 37%, we still had the same number of deaths as the year before when we were 50% of total.

Only 10% of snowmobile fatalities are caused by avalanches, but what percentage of snowmobiler's ride in avalanche terrain? If you look at registration numbers, the vast majority of snowmobile use is not in avalanche terrain. Those of us who ride in the mountains, the avalanches are a big concern.

As far as skier deaths, many ski areas do not pronounce people dead on the mountain. It is done at the hospital, so the statistics for nonavalanche deaths may be skewed.

 

[backcountryski]

Just out of curiosity... If snowmobilers are #1, i'm guessing backcountry skiers are #2? What about #3?

I'm pretty sure that Mountaineers/Climbers are #3.

Also, here is a video of the snowpulse avalanche airbag. check it out:

http://www.skiingthebackcountry.com/Snow_Pulse_Avalanche_Airbag.php

 

[Icedog]

Would YOU rather ride with someone who:
1. Has just a beacon
2. has just an airbag


To have a beacon, you can save another, unlike an airbag.... sure if you have a bag and survive, what tools do you have to locate others??

What if you are riding, and saw a slide from afar.,., and have no way to even try to locate, let alone help someone? I think that helplessness would haunt you for the rest of your days.
It all bends upon non-selfishness for me/. Then again, I would almost rather have the people riding with me to have the better rescue equipment than me, 'cause they are the ones that are going to dig my arse out..

I would even recommend Avalanche training over an air bag.

Don't get me wrong, an airbag increases your chances, but to say it can alone help increase others'.... that is an untrue statement.

This is my exact thinking as well. Some people seem to think that the safety gear they carry is strickly for themselves. I believe avy gear is a group safety tool; as much or more than a personal item.