Are you happy with your 2 stroke?

[GlennRMK]

Two stroke guys, are you happy? Especially those on 250s or 300s?

Currently I'm running a 09 CRF450R. Had a dozen rides or about 35 hours on the snow with a 16 Timbersled LT.

Worked great other then a couple things:

Will not start when it's cold. I never left it in the back of the truck overnight. If it was below 20 degrees and traveled an hour or so I would have to get it real hot before leaving. If was around zero, it would not start. Needed a propane heater to get it going.

This about made me sell it and go back to a sled!

Do the 2 strokes start when cold?

Only other issue was I had to gear up to 14T on the countershaft, then go to 16/18 in the chaincase to get the gearing right.

Otherwise the Honda was perfect. Always ran perfectly and started great once I got it started.

I ride dirt a lot more then snow and already have two bikes. I like having two bikes and plan to keep it that way. I average about 70 days a year on dirt so I would like to have a bike that is better for trails then the a 450 track bike (pretty much the worst trail bikes ever).

I'm not a four stroke fan I'm really considering switching.

I already have a 14 Sherco 300 2 stroke which I love and is perfect for trails. However for snow I'm thinking a moto 2 stroke would be a better setup. And the faster higher revving 250 would be better IMO.

So I was thinking 06-08 RM250, 06 and up YZ250 or 11 and up 250 SX.

I don't want to deal with starting a 500 or riding that in the summer. The KTM 250 or 300 XC would be OK other then the E start doesn't hardly work or goes out anyways and I think the 5 speed close ratio tranny would be better.

I would definitely do an Avid carb heater and t stat.

Are guys still having carb issues? I'm not afraid of jetting or even puttig a pyrometer on if that's needed.

I like riding tight trees and I'm not a fan of the big open hills or Meadows that sleds like so I really don't think I the power difference would be a big deal to me.

Any feedback is appreciated!

 

[the gman]

First off starting a four stroke in cold weather they are not designed to run in is a problem. If it's fuel injection it is even a bigger problem which you are probably aware of. One thing makes up for it....a primer. One shot of raw fuel on a cold morning will help. My 300 with a primer starts first or second kick EVERY time on a cold morning, and even without the choke, just a quick shot from the primer every now and then until warm does the trick. I have went back to a four stroke for next year because of my weight and my age, and if I have hard starting I will install a primer on my new yz also. Trust me, a little raw fuel, spark and you WILL have fire

 

[the gman]

Also don't go smart carb, buy a lectron for half the price and have the needed power jet for wide open tuning. The heat collar is a MUST to prevent carb ice. I fought it on my 300 gas gas and my 300 ktm. Robbie and Randy cured that. Also the newer Ktm starters work great for restarts, just kick them first thing in the morning. Mine works every time during the day as long as I dont abuse it in the morning. iF you go lectron have the boys install a 3-3 or 3-4 needle. Better fuel economy and spot on tuning at any elevation

 

[lundracing]

I ran a 4 str


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[DanielMerrick]

I never had many starting issues unless below -30*c, 2014 yz450f... bike never saw the inside of a garage unless it was to iced up. Took 20 minutes of kicking after a 2 hour truck ride at -30, other then that started 5-6 kicks no mater what..

 

[crawfishoo]

Hmmm, couple questions about your CRF might be able to help a significant amount with the starting.

* Has any mapping been done to the ECM? The stock ECM mapping is marginal, for both power and starting. Also the stock mapping is more susceptible to gas in the oil in my experience. Having an ECM remap by SSW or Tokyo mods will do wonders for starting and overall power. And just to confirm, you are pulling out the cold start knob on the first start in the morning?

* What weight oil are you using? I would use a synthetic 5w oil if you have temps around or above freezing. If you are consistently below freezing I would use a 0w oil.

* Sounds like you have a lot of experience with 2 strokes, 2 vs 4 stroke do have some differences in best technique for starting. For your CRF be sure to pull cold start knob, no throttle at all (grab the handlebar so you are not subconsciously turning the throttle), and use a full length smooth kick. The kicker needs to be grabbing and engaged at the top of the range, then kick it through the complete range, you should hit the foot peg at the bottom. Its the last 1-2 inches that make the difference in starting.

I had close to 200 hrs over 2 seasons on my 09 CRF and it always ran great! Only mods I had were Yosh pipe + SSW ECM mapping. Never had issues with starting and very rarely had issues with gas in the oil.

 

[GlennRMK]

Hmmm, couple questions about your CRF might be able to help a significant amount with the starting.

* Has any mapping been done to the ECM? The stock ECM mapping is marginal, for both power and starting. Also the stock mapping is more susceptible to gas in the oil in my experience. Having an ECM remap by SSW or Tokyo mods will do wonders for starting and overall power. And just to confirm, you are pulling out the cold start knob on the first start in the morning?

* What weight oil are you using? I would use a synthetic 5w oil if you have temps around or above freezing. If you are consistently below freezing I would use a 0w oil.

* Sounds like you have a lot of experience with 2 strokes, 2 vs 4 stroke do have some differences in best technique for starting. For your CRF be sure to pull cold start knob, no throttle at all (grab the handlebar so you are not subconsciously turning the throttle), and use a full length smooth kick. The kicker needs to be grabbing and engaged at the top of the range, then kick it through the complete range, you should hit the foot peg at the bottom. Its the last 1-2 inches that make the difference in starting.

I had close to 200 hrs over 2 seasons on my 09 CRF and it always ran great! Only mods I had were Yosh pipe + SSW ECM mapping. Never had issues with starting and very rarely had issues with gas in the oil.

It does run great, once its running

I also have the full Yoshimura exhaust. Had a SSW map which was a joke. Bike was put it on a dyno and tuned it with the Honda tool. Much, much better.

Was running 0W40 Amsoil full synthetic

Yes, it is sensitive to how you kick it. Always a full kick and trying to find TDC.

I would always attempt to kick it with zero throttle. However, the days it was PIA to get going, it always started when just barely opening the throttle (just a tiny bit of tension, enough to bump the idle RPM up maybe 500 RPM)

Heard similar stories from guys with KX450s. However, my buddies with E start KTMs had no issues. And my buddies 14 RMZ450 always started flawlessly.

I rode an 11 300 XC with a 16 Short Track and thought it ripped.

Hence I'm thinking about trying a 2 stroke.

Also, why run a Lectron over the PWK? I am a big fan of the PWK.

 

[jskattum606]

Ran a 2015 ktm 300 xcw with st this winter for 80 snow hours. Awesome bike and I don't regret it a bit
Had all the mods except big bore or porting and it ran great all season. Only negative of the 2 strokes are :
more cost to set up for winter
Think the vibration is hard on the kit (don't think I can prove this is more than the 4 strokes though)

In my opinion the positives outweigh the negatives

 

[wwillf01]

I have been super happy with my cr500. I find it excels with a base or denser snow. The 4 bangers have lengthier gears which allows the rider to be less aggressive .... But excel in the deeper power or chute climbs. At the end of the day I think 2s are a more exciting ride as long as your aggressive.. Mine with a primer, carb heat, stat and a Smartcarb has been flawless... The trick with the meter carbs is to keep the temps in check and have a shut off valve for the heat collar... 200 snow hours now in my set up.. I have also ridden with the 300s and 250s which are rippers too as long as you are 180 pounds or less with an st ...


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[highflyernick]

I don't run a 300.. But I do have a kx500 2 stroke with a long track. Looks like you have all the info you need but... I'll do a quick run down..

My 2 stroke start easy in cold, just need a good prime!

Zero carb issues with a metering carb. Once I did the initial set up on my 40mm smart carb, I haven't touched it. I would go Lectron if I did it over but I don't have issues.

Carb heater a must.

I run a tunnel cooler but the 500's make a lot of heat. You could prolly just run the rads on a 300. Especially with the newer rads/water pump, probably a bit more efficient.

Thermostat/temp gauge. I say this is a necessity.

I don't run a pyro but might throw one on for next year just cuz.

I cracked a pipe now right after the header. On a ceramic coated gnarly. I'm thinking a big skid plate that covers it so snow isn't directly hitting the pipe non stop. It took alot of abuse this year so I wasn't that surprised. Just need some UHMW to solve that.

Gearing - I'm running the same chaincase gearing as you. Works great.

In the end, if you prefer 2 strokes, you will like a 2 stroke set up better. Even tho the EFI 450 is an easy set up. Oh, and it's hard to beat the sound of a 2 stroke in the backcountry going through 2 feet of powder. Cheers!

 

[Revy-rider]

I ran my 2014 Sherco 300 2t on a ST this year. I fully shrouded the pipe and engine and had NO carb icing issues. Used the stock PWK carb with leaner main jet, no carb heat and it started and ran great. If you make sure your airbox is sealed and keep the snow off the pipe and carb I don't see why you should need extra heat or an after market carb.

 

[GlennRMK]

Thanks for the info guys.

I would like to hear from more people running 250s or 300s.

Especially those who stuck with the stock PWK carb. I don't see why you want to swap carbs?

Is the YZ250 a better choice then the 250 SX???

 

[eric82930]

I run an 11 250sx w/thermostat and homemade carb blanket/duct tape wrap over the stock pwk, I never have to rejet between 8k and 12k. It Started in -30f overnight in ten kicks.

I also have a 380 - not much more peak power than the 250sx just more low end grunt and very linear like a 4 stroke. It starts almost as easy as my 250.

I had a 505xc and a kx500 both hard to start and not much more power than my 250sx. also KX vibs way to much.

You will have to ride the 250 like a 125 in deep uphills but the power is there and they start better than anything in the cold. The 250 will be the most fun type of power. And fun is why we ride right?

You will have to mod a yz to get it to the hp of a stock 250sx but it will be right in the same class if you do.

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

YZ 2250

I have run mine with coolant from thermo through a piece of 3/8 copper tube around the carb bell for heat , big long open air cleaner no air box, stock carb. When you go to a Lectron, better throttle response and, and way better fuel milage to the point with my desert tank on the 250, it goes as far as the fuelie for strokes I have ridden with. But you have to buzz it, late season a riot, Dec. blower snow not so great.

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

yz 250

I have run mine with coolant from thermo through a piece of 3/8 copper tube around the carb bell for heat , big long open air cleaner no air box, stock carb. When you go to a Lectron, better throttle response and, and way better fuel milage to the point with my desert tank on the 250, it goes as far as the fuelie for strokes I have ridden with. But you have to buzz it, late season a riot, Dec. blower snow not so great.

 

[GlennRMK]

Thanks guys!

Are most people running pod style prefilters for air filters? Or using the air box?

 

[wwillf01]

I run the pod... Works great

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[wwillf01]

I ran my 2014 Sherco 300 2t on a ST this year. I fully shrouded the pipe and engine and had NO carb icing issues. Used the stock PWK carb with leaner main jet, no carb heat and it started and ran great. If you make sure your airbox is sealed and keep the snow off the pipe and carb I don't see why you should need extra heat or an after market carb.

I agree here.. For me it is less pain in the arse come spring taking and putting on the cover depending on conditions... But my CR stays pretty warm anyways..

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[Answ3r]

I live near east coast so we don't see mega snow like in the mountains, but my CR250 worked fine without heat, with a pod filter.

Shrouding helped a ton. Started all the time.

Next year on KTM 300 !

 

[GlennRMK]

Well I'm on the look out for a YZ250 or 250 SX/XC