Are Avalanche Classes worth it

[DieselTwitch]

20 years ago I would say absolutely. But this day in age where you can source almost anything. I wonder as to the effectiveness of the class. I've been back country most of my life. I take a lot of time to work on back country survival and I also take the time to look at the snow pack and study up on snow types, current pack and different factors in slide. I've taken the Lvl 1 as well as a refresher every year. Each time I question the stuff I learn. Each summer I take some buddies out we work to get to know out beacons and how they work. I also check avalanche conditions before I head out using my phone.

What do you think and why. Don't just take a side, I want to know why.

Here are a list of the resources I use.
http://www.avalanche.org
http://www.avalanche.ca/cac/training/online-course
http://geokov.com/education/avalanche-awareness.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_snow

among other sites I'm starting to wonder if the 300-500$ class is really worth it.

 

[Snowbird11]

it depends on your goals. what type of terrain do you want to ride in or under? do you just want to learn by reading and from your own self taught experiences?

it's not something that can't be learned without a class but the learning curve can be steep with and without it. A good mentor can really shorten that. since those can be in short supply, a class can help you firm up what you are seeing and give you a better tool box to to make decisions with.

Today's classes for recreational riders and skiers have shifted to decision framework. You can find that in online resources but the hands on experiences you get with it can be invaluable. You'd also be very surprised at how much the instructor can have an impact on the quality of the class. The exact same material taught by someone with teaching ability, real life experience and humility can make your class worth more than the cost. Whereas, a weak instructor can waste your time/money and give you their over confident version of what they think they know. FWIW, you can get that same opinion online...


I noticed you have taken an avy 1. Most of those focus on the basic "rules & facts as we know them" and give folks just enough info to be misinterpreted and misused. That can sometimes be the fault of the instructor but also the end user bears some responsibility here.
Avy 2 will give you the exception to the rules and further the more scientific approach to avalanches. Without correct interpretation, folks here can use this info to rationalize some pretty poor decisions. We are all humans that can and will make mistakes. A quality instructor has seen a lot of the mistakes made at this level and can put the emphasis where it's needed to send the message home.

Avy 3 is really for the snow geeks and pros. At a recreational level it is a bit overkill. Recently there are more courses being offered in addition to avy 1-3. One I'd recommend is a dedicated rescue course. When taught well, you'll come away with good rescue skills that you will eventually default to in the event of an accident. You should also come away with the realization that rescue is not something you ever want to rely on. Again, the hands on here is something you won't get online or even in on hill practice. Even professional rescue never goes smoothly. There's always something to learn and always something that could be done better.

It's just food for thought but i hope it helps you make decisions that work for you and your situation.

 

[wfieldin]

I take classes every year both on snow and in class and feel they are a very helpful resource. I have taken the lvl 1, doubt I will take lvl 2, not too concerned with more snow crystal knowledge and testing snow. I do think that on snow rescue drills are the best. Single and multiple burial scenarios should not be avoided.

 

[johnnybee]

I took an Avy 1 course last winter in Jackson Wy. The instructors were really knowledgeable and I felt like I was learning a lot, but when it was all over and I was back on my sled, I had more doubts and concerns than ever before. I'm not sure if this was the point, to never be confident and always be second guessing your decisions about what is safe? I think a course that is geared toward sledding would be the most valuable. Snow is snow, but an instructor/sledder would maybe have a better understanding of the situations sledders face.

 

[Snowbird11]

I take classes every year both on snow and in class and feel they are a very helpful resource. I have taken the lvl 1, doubt I will take lvl 2, not too concerned with more snow crystal knowledge and testing snow. I do think that on snow rescue drills are the best. Single and multiple burial scenarios should not be avoided.

That's great. you stay sharp on the skills you need to know and don't waste time trying to over think the snowpack. more than 90% of riders would be fine with a level 1. if you come away with a basic understanding of when to avoid avalanche terrain, then you've got the picture. far too often, riders will use what they've learned in avy classes to over think sketchy situations and rationalize the decision they'd like to make. if they ride the slope and nothing happens, then they've just solidified their reasoning and have actually become more dangerous in the future. Statistically, groups with at least one women in them tend to display this behavior less often.

 

[kanedog]

I don't think taking one every year is necessary because the information is the same. Every year is overkill but i would sure sled with ya if knew you take the course every year1You need to practice to keep your skills sharp tho.
I say every 5 years as the instructor is supervising you do a search, multi burial, odd things that may set off your beacon in the wrong direction. The instructor can correct you on some things you may forget when you are saving my life!!

 

[snowww1]

Always sad to see the accidents where knowledge would have easily prevented the accident that caused death or injury. Unfortunately for many, avalanche education is reactionary and they take the class after someone they knew was killed in an avalanche. These are the toughest classes to teach, since the survivors most times realize some of the mistakes that were made. When an accident happens, you want the peace of mind that you gave it your best effort. Not the time to reflect and think you should have taken a class or practiced with your transceiver more.

I have had people "forced" to come to class by their riding partners and never once has anyone ever said "It wasn't worth it". Many riders require their friends to take the classes and we constantly hear "It was the best money I ever spent on snowmobiling", "Everyone who rides in the mountains should take this course", etc, etc.

Over 20 people who have taken my class have saved their own lives from what they learned or saved the lives of others in a rescue situation. To make the education effective, you must implement what you learned and keep learning.

The knowledge of the snowpack, rescue skills and equipment is evolving at a very fast pace. As an instructor, I am constantly learning, it is a never ending process. If I waited 5 years before learning new techniques, everything I know would be very outdated. Many people take classes every year as a refresher, learn new skills and to be in the right mindset before the season starts. I have noticed that the people taking the classes are the hard core riders who take the sport seriously. Racers, pro riders, test riders, mod riders and the serious recreational riders.

If you're a snowmobiler, take a class from someone who has extensive snowmobile mountain riding and teaching experience. I have found that my mountain rescue and guiding experience has also been very helpful in teaching.

Many years ago, I would learn many different things on my own. I am now a big advocate of education. You learn from experienced people and you don't waste time learning from trial and error, developing bad habits or going down the wrong path. You get the skills so much faster. The instructor weeds out all the bs and gives you instantaneous feedback.

A friend of mine rode with a guy last year that had only been on a snowmobile 17 times, but every one of those times was riding (training)with Bret Rasmussen. My friend could not believe how good he was and claimed he was one of the best riders he has ever rode with.

Don't waste your time or a life, take a quality class.

That's my .02 on education.

Mike Duffy
Avalanche1.com
Avalanche education for mountain riders.

 

[sledsrock]

Absolutely

Why not take a class every year? What could it hurt? Even if you come away only learning/remembering one thing - it's worth it....at least for me it is. Besides, I'm older and more forgetful.....I need my memory jarred more now than when I was younger

Speaking of classes - Mike, I'll be seeing you in November.

 

[sledneckskier]

We are really lucky to have a great non-profit here on the Gallatin (Friends of the Avalanche Center), and they put on many sled specific classes every season. Best part is that they do not cost anywhere near $300, much of the time just a donation to the Friends is asked for. I am a huge advocate for sled specific classes, not that I'm a skier hater (hell, I am one, but the terrain I seek and how I function in the mountains is different when I'm sledding versus skiing. I will admit that every class I teach, I myself learn something new, the students also bring a lot to the table. I hear about different experiences every class and of course you cannot beat the hands on portion of it. I personally am not a fan of a lot of classroom time but, more field time. I must also add that the information is evolving constantly. Why not connect yourself to those people who are plugged into the avalanche education community to access all the new information that is coming available each year or two?

 

[Devilmanak]

I took one for the first time last year, I think SKidoo sponsored it through the dealership, it was free.
Before, I thought "I don't need it", but I am VERY glad I took it, learned a ton, and I will take it every year. Aside from learning a lot, and it also scared me enough to take avalanche stuff a little more seriously, even after having friends die in them.

 

[Red Beron]

Took a great class last year in Duluth MN. Mike Duffy was the instructor, was the best 50.00 I ever spent. It was AVY 1 and we purchased the AVY 1 Video, it will make every trip we take for a refresher. The class was a eye opener for us we have been going out west for 14 years. I think everyone should take a class like this, you must have respect for places you play!

 

[James42005]

I say YES! It seems as though others agree. Ive been backcountry riding only for 5 years. I took my first AVY class with Mike Duffy this year in Iowa. ITS FREE! Why not go? If you have the opportunity, take it. I would even spend $50 bucks if there's one close by. I learned A LOT of stuff from Mike Duffy, Im sure i did not retain as much as I could have. Thats why i will go every year to get the info beat into my thick skull so that I can make smart riding decisions without hesitation. Im glad to say my entire group bought all new avy gear this year including airbags. We've been lucky far too many times. If you have years and years of training on avalanche awareness and survival, then maybe watching videos and ready articles is enough for you to stay sharp every year. I suppose it depends on the individual rider and their goals. But really, there was free beer, pop, and sandwiches along with the FREE CLASS, plus a pretty sweet discount on gear, so why the hell not!?