Any concrete guys out there?

[catmandoo]

Any concrete guys out there?

I am working on an old house for some friends and they hired these contractors to pour a garage pad… Any who as they were putting the site on grade they took the gravel off the existing driveway along with sand a lots of topsoil and piled it up to be hauled away along with an old shed, then when the truck showed up he said he will not take the shed and the dirt/gravel mix in one trip so they loaded up the shed and left the topsoil/gravel mix….the contractor spread that out and rather than haul it away and bring sand in, he spread it all out and put poured a pad on it…..well that pad was a disaster..!! Pored at 130pm and at 7 pm could not put a power trawl on it. Firm on the surface and mush inside… Would the topsoil in the gravel be causing negative effects with the concrete or is there something else at play here?
Thanks and sorry for the long post.

 

[Blu Du]

not an expert but soil shouldn't have caused it not to set up. was it cool out. you can pour concrete in water and it will get hard. probally should of put chloride in the mud if it was cool out. the guys got a batch for footings last week for a basement we dug. driver started to dump and it ran out like water. here to find out he dumped all the water from his tank into the mud while he was driving to the job.

 

[TheFlyingFynn]

Any concrete guys out there?

I am working on an old house for some friends and they hired these contractors to pour a garage pad… Any who as they were putting the site on grade they took the gravel off the existing driveway along with sand a lots of topsoil and piled it up to be hauled away along with an old shed, then when the truck showed up he said he will not take the shed and the dirt/gravel mix in one trip so they loaded up the shed and left the topsoil/gravel mix….the contractor spread that out and rather than haul it away and bring sand in, he spread it all out and put poured a pad on it…..well that pad was a disaster..!! Pored at 130pm and at 7 pm could not put a power trawl on it. Firm on the surface and mush inside… Would the topsoil in the gravel be causing negative effects with the concrete or is there something else at play here?
Thanks and sorry for the long post.

ok so he spread out a mixture of topsoil gravel and sand and then poured the slab.

What was the ambient temp that day?

Do you know how much if any water was added to the mud at teh job site.

Do you know if they were using in admixtures hi early retarder etc.

how thick was the floor 3 1/2 true 4" or 5" etc.

Was the mud from a reputable local company?

How long was the mud in the truck should be know more then 350 rotation or something like that 1 1/2 etc. Could have been a hot load when it arrived.

Is this crew a concrete outfit or are the a builder pouring concrete this is important.

Did they lay it down screed it off then bullfloat it or did they just screed it and throw the power trowel on it.

Was there any color added....it can do funny things.

What type reinforcement...none. fiber mesh, rebar or wire mesh.

Please answer those forensic ?'s

 

[cacsrx1]

ok so he spread out a mixture of topsoil gravel and sand and then poured the slab.

What was the ambient temp that day?

Do you know how much if any water was added to the mud at teh job site.

Do you know if they were using in admixtures hi early retarder etc.

how thick was the floor 3 1/2 true 4" or 5" etc.

Was the mud from a reputable local company?

How long was the mud in the truck should be know more then 350 rotation or something like that 1 1/2 etc. Could have been a hot load when it arrived.

Is this crew a concrete outfit or are the a builder pouring concrete this is important.

Did they lay it down screed it off then bullfloat it or did they just screed it and throw the power trowel on it.

Was there any color added....it can do funny things.

What type reinforcement...none. fiber mesh, rebar or wire mesh.

Please answer those forensic ?'s

Here are the real questions you need to ask.
When was it batched?
What was the slump at the jobsight?
What were the admixtures, if any.
Was any water added at the job.

 

[catmandoo]

It was about 73 F today

 

[cacsrx1]

The topsoil mixed in with the subgrade isnt the problem. It is VERY poor procedure but will not have an effect on the finish of the concrete. Reading between the lines it sound like a pi$$ pore contractor that does poor work, or got in over his head. Anybody who mixes topsoil with sand/gravel doesnt know what they are doing or doesnt care.

 

[johnsodo]

Any concrete guys out there?

I am working on an old house for some friends and they hired these contractors to pour a garage pad… Any who as they were putting the site on grade they took the gravel off the existing driveway along with sand a lots of topsoil and piled it up to be hauled away along with an old shed, then when the truck showed up he said he will not take the shed and the dirt/gravel mix in one trip so they loaded up the shed and left the topsoil/gravel mix….the contractor spread that out and rather than haul it away and bring sand in, he spread it all out and put poured a pad on it…..well that pad was a disaster..!! Pored at 130pm and at 7 pm could not put a power trawl on it. Firm on the surface and mush inside… Would the topsoil in the gravel be causing negative effects with the concrete or is there something else at play here?
Thanks and sorry for the long post.

it can be lots of stuff to much air. sugar/some will use it as a retardant if to much it will kill the mud (fly ash) and about 100+ more give me a call if you like 406-439-3429 Doug Johnson

 

[TheFlyingFynn]

Did he ever get this resolved I am going with bad contractor and maybe to much of a admixture.

 

[aebsledder]

Bad Subgrade

Regardless of the mix design, it sounds like it was poured on a poorly constructed sub grade, which will eventually render the entire slab useless anyways. Like anything else in construction, each step is contingent on the one before it. I would make them tear it out and replace at their cost. You can buy a book at Home Depot that will give you a better procedure than what they did.

 

[sledin]

Sand and dry dirt will suck the moisture out of the concrete.That's all I know.

 

[Doolerious]

Take a look at the ticket from the truck and see what the water cement ratio was when it was batched, and then see if the driver actually did what he was supposed to and wrote down how many gallons of water were added on site. As stated earlier you should also be able to see the time on the ticket of when it was batched, arrived on site, etc. Who knows, maybe the driver had to stop and pick up some snowmobile parts along the way and the mud started to set up so he added a bunch more water before he got on site???? Was the slab poured over a vapor barrier?

Good Luck!!!!!!

 

[arfrce]

Darnit Jim we need answers. What happen? The suspense is killer.

 

[xrated]

Take a look at the ticket from the truck and see what the water cement ratio was when it was batched, and then see if the driver actually did what he was supposed to and wrote down how many gallons of water were added on site. As stated earlier you should also be able to see the time on the ticket of when it was batched, arrived on site, etc. Who knows, maybe the driver had to stop and pick up some snowmobile parts along the way and the mud started to set up so he added a bunch more water before he got on site???? Was the slab poured over a vapor barrier?

Good Luck!!!!!!

sound like a guy whose been there

Here's another concrete question, I tore out my patio this past week. IT ran off the driveway. When I got the first part tore out I saw the driveway was only 2, maybe 3 inches thick. The patio ranged from 4 to 8 inches thick! Is that normal? I'm guess the thin driveway would explain why I have as many cracks as I do.

 

[Good to Go]

Wow....

You get what you pay for in this business.

And people bi!ch about price.




xrated: The thinner the slab, the closer the control joints need to be. And slabs that have uneven thickness create additional stresses internally. So yes, no doubt it contributed to your cracking.

Isn't it funny? If one averaged out your 8" thick areas to the 2 and 3" areas, you probably would have had a decent slab. To lazy to move the material and compact, hence they just poured it. Out of sight, out of mind, as they say.

 

[graveler]

What is concrete anyway? I thought it was cement!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheFlyingFynn]

What is concrete anyway? I thought it was cement!!!!!!!!!

cement is a material that goes in concrete...like sand and aggregates. Its all mixed togther in different ratios to provide different strength etc.

 

[TheFlyingFynn]

Wow....

You get what you pay for in this business.

And people bi!ch about price.




xrated: The thinner the slab, the closer the control joints need to be. And slabs that have uneven thickness create additional stresses internally. So yes, no doubt it contributed to your cracking.

Isn't it funny? If one averaged out your 8" thick areas to the 2 and 3" areas, you probably would have had a decent slab. To lazy to move the material and compact, hence they just poured it. Out of sight, out of mind, as they say.

In my opinion being in the industry its always a good idea to go around and talk to past customers and look at old work.....you will see how they QC their work and know just about what to expect.....unless of course their going broke then all past work is worthless and nothing going to help. Seen good one turn bad in this economy...in comm. anyway.

 

[Good to Go]

What is concrete anyway? I thought it was cement!!!!!!!!!

LMAO...^^^^

And you got a response too.... LMAO twice!! You don't say..

 

[Doolerious]

Hey X,

General rule of thumb for control joints is 2-3 times the slab thickness in feet. In other words a 2" slab should have joints between 4 and 6 feet, a 4" slab should have joints between 8 and 12 feet, and a 6" slab should have joints between 12 and 18 feet.

By the way I sure hope you don't pour a 2" slab to save a few bucks Patio 3.5" to 4" unreinforced on good grade is nice, driveway....5" unreinforced should be good, any thinner I would recommend some reinforcement. Hope this helps.