Another one thinking of taking the plunge...

[laneends]

So I've been snowmobiling for a few seasons now, absolutely love it and have bought three "crappy old sleds". I am really intrigued by the whole snow bike thing. I will be keeping an eye out for an affordable kit this off-season.

I currently own a 2006 crf450r I plan to use as a snowbike, and after much reading here and googling, I'm noticing hardly anyone runs this bike in the snow. Why is that? I would like to know what I need to buy to get her out on the snow, from what I gather I need:
JD jet kit
Modified air box (whatever that means)
Thermobob
Stiffer forks (is this a must?)
Carb heat (seems to be some debate if this is actually a requirement)

So far from what a gather the only real negatives I can think of using this bike is:
No stator for warmers and lights (trail tech has a cure for that, plus those raze motorsports bars seem like a great option)
Hard starting cold.

Hard starting is really what worries me the most, she can be a bit of a pain in the summer to get going after a spill, and on cold mornings. I'm hoping the jet kit will help there. Is it a problem getting running again after a lunch break, or will there still be some heat in the engine if I wrap it?

I already have hand guards, a polisport battery powered headlight, seal savers, and tto temp guage and tach.

What else do I need? Besides obviously a track kit. I'm thinking budget build to wet my beak, and use as a backup/loaner if I need something newer. And kits to avoid? Thanks for any input!

 

[El Gringo]

I was a sled head for 10 or 12 years and converted to a snowbike 2 years ago. It is crazy fun, I rented one to try it out then bought one. As for your CRF. carb heat is not aa thing on 4 strokes. Fuel injection is nice as it starts much easier after a spill and you will fall over. I also like my magic button the bike I rented did not have one, it was a pain, but it's not essential. The air box mods are to keep snow out your bike will not run well once the airbox is packed with snow. Stiffer fork springs will make a big differnce when you start to hit things harder, but you could try without them. Coolant heated handle bars are really nice and you can make them yourself, there is a great thread on here that discribes how to do it. Engine blanket will help keep heat in the engine, not essential but nice to have.
Good luck in your seatch, a used DTS kit should be affordable if you can find one, they are a solid kit and not crazy expensive to start with.

 

[Ben 500RR-S]

My BIL got a 2008 CRF450X this past winter and I put on a 2018 Camso DTS 129 kit on it. He got the bike for $3,000 and had traded 1/2 a share of black angus beef for the bike-bartering is still alive and well in 2017/2018.

Bike has e-start and works well. It is cold blooded but once warmed up and running, runs well and ran just fine for him all winter and he is a big guy at 6' 225 lbs.

He just ran the air filter that came on the bike, not even cleaned, no prefilter, nothing.

I did install the Thermobob along with the Trail Tech temp guage, PST engine jacket and that was about it. The Thermobob worked perfectly on the motor as I was told that the inventor of the unit used the CRF450 to test the unit so that is why it works so well with the Honda.

He never used the heated grips so we had disconnected them but left the grips on the bike.

My BIL never mentioned anything about the front end and in all my riding, while I have felt the front compress at times, have never felt the need for a stiffer front fork setup at all as the terrain we ride is not crazy and while I know I could probably push the bike harder with slightly stiffer forks, the last thing I need to do is push it any more than I already am. I think the soft front is keeping me safe.

 

[coryf89]

You guys are brave running old crfs as a snowbike. My 05 couldn’t even last a summer without constant valve problems. The TI intakes suck and going to SS didn’t seem to help in the long run. Nothing but problems with my crf for 8 years. No way I’d personally ever throw a track kit on and expect to ride hard backcountry all winter long.

 

[Ben 500RR-S]

You guys are brave running old crfs as a snowbike. My 05 couldn’t even last a summer without constant valve problems. The TI intakes suck and going to SS didn’t seem to help in the long run. Nothing but problems with my crf for 8 years. No way I’d personally ever throw a track kit on and expect to ride hard backcountry all winter long.

Funny, how ignorance can be bliss sometimes.

My brother in law likes Honda and has had a 2001 XR250 that he has not had to do anything to since he has owned it and believes/believed that the CRF450X would be the same way. He has been running the bike hard this past winter and so far, has had no issues. He always rides nose so he has to break trail every time we ride. I'll ride a clean line right next to his most of the time but sometimes I'll take his line to take it easier on my bike/motor.

His is also a 2008 and he just got it this past winter. Now we'll see how long it lasts.

 

[AllHatNoCattle]

You guys are brave running old crfs as a snowbike. My 05 couldn’t even last a summer without constant valve problems. The TI intakes suck and going to SS didn’t seem to help in the long run. Nothing but problems with my crf for 8 years. No way I’d personally ever throw a track kit on and expect to ride hard backcountry all winter long.

I had an 06. I put the stainless steel valves in and after that it was bulletproof.

I'm not sure I'd want a carb bike as a snowbike, but with SS valves you wouldn't have to worry about that part.

 

[Ben 500RR-S]

I'm not sure I'd want a carb bike as a snowbike,

I'd agree with this. FI just makes things so much easier such as with starting, tip overs, hot starting, it just makes it touch and go rather than having to deal with flooding, hot start, when to use hot start, is the hot start even working to make a difference?, all that jazz that FI just eliminates.

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

Honda in the snow

I have had several riding partners with carbed Honda's. All good.

Nice power and an agile feeling bike with TS short track kits.

The hard starting is toooo lean jetting. Typical of stock bike and their Keihin carbs. Easiest solution for starting..........primer bulb, done that, proved it to some skeptics. When cold they need gas to start.
When hot they are never flooded, the hot engine has evaporated any gas in the head, the rings don't provide the seal hot and your bike won't suck gas from the carb, shot with primer bulb, starts one kick hot.

Usually honda's are easy to find and not pricey. Buy one and ride it till it blows, it will likely be awhile.

 

[coryf89]

Funny, how ignorance can be bliss sometimes.

My brother in law likes Honda and has had a 2001 XR250 that he has not had to do anything to since he has owned it and believes/believed that the CRF450X would be the same way. He has been running the bike hard this past winter and so far, has had no issues. He always rides nose so he has to break trail every time we ride. I'll ride a clean line right next to his most of the time but sometimes I'll take his line to take it easier on my bike/motor.

His is also a 2008 and he just got it this past winter. Now we'll see how long it lasts.

ignorance? oh boy is he in for a rude awakening around next winter if he thinks a race motor 03-08 range pre EFI crf is the same beast/reliability as an old air cooled, low performance, XR thatll go for 40 years on the same piston. youre talking about "a friend of a friend" who has owned the bike for under a year total and only rides a few times each winter, ive got nearly 10 years direct hand on experience with crfs riding and wrenching on strictly crfs only. ive wrenched on serial number 00000001 of a 2002 crf450r, the first crf450r from the first batch ever off the assembly line. I know my CRFs and im now 100% done with them.

were a honda family too. pressure washers, lawn mowers, bikes for the last 20 years. weve had em all. I like honda and dont usually bash them but these crfs... man they are nothing but problems. give it some time... those TI intake valves can only handle so much abuse. very little actually compared to other brands. known fact all over thumpertalk crf forums for the last 10 years. I was on a crf 450r for 8 years, had just under 400 logged engine hours on it via hour meter. no guessing here. 3 motors and probably 5 top ends. I went with SS intakes, the 08 upgraded (smaller, but stock SS) exhaust valves. still nothing but problems. maybe I had a lemon? or 2 lemon motors in a row? it was nothing but problems from the intakes closing up, to the shim centers getting pounded out, to the auto decompressor gap going out of wack due to the exhaust valves changing every so slightly. we got riders in our group, and other groups, on crfs all with the same problems... intakes causing the bike to either not start when cold, or when hot.

my 03-08 range crf was nothing but problems all summer long... I just dont see them handling more than a winter or two but I hope im wrong.

food for thought for future readers.

obviously the 17+ EFI bikes are a different beast and a bit stronger/more capable... but we got guys here discussing the carbed CRFs which I know inside and out, as well as their problems. I buy, fix, and flip 5-15 CRFs every summer. theyre all the same.

ive considered throwing a track kit on my ol crf... its a fairly solid bike, every mod and then some, but I just dont trust it enough anymore.

I hope you crf guys have better luck than I did. feel free to PM me when your head/intakes start to tulip and you need advice. ive done it lots. the heads on those bikes are the finickiest/weakest of them all.

 

[Ben 500RR-S]

ignorance? oh boy is he in for a rude awakening around next winter if he thinks a race motor 03-08 range pre EFI crf is the same beast/reliability as an old air cooled, low performance, XR thatll go for 40 years on the same piston. youre talking about "a friend of a friend" who has owned the bike for under a year total and only rides a few times each winter, ive got nearly 10 years direct hand on experience with crfs riding and wrenching on strictly crfs only. ive wrenched on serial number 00000001 of a 2002 crf450r, the first crf450r from the first batch ever off the assembly line. im now 100% done with them.

were a honda family too. pressure washers, lawn mowers, bikes for the last 20 years. weve had em all. I like honda and dont usually bash them but these crfs... man they are nothing but problems. give it some time... those TI intake valves can only handle so much abuse. very little actually compared to other brands. known fact all over thumpertalk crf forums for the last 10 years. I was on a crf 450r for 8 years, had just under 400 logged engine hours on it via hour meter. no guessing here. 3 motors and probably 5 top ends. I went with SS intakes, the 08 upgraded (smaller, but stock SS) exhaust valves. still nothing but problems. maybe I had a lemon? or 2 lemon motors in a row? it was nothing but problems from the intakes closing up, to the shim centers getting pounded out, to the auto decompressor gap going out of wack due to the exhaust valves changing every so slightly. we got riders in our group, and other groups, on crfs all with the same problems... intakes causing the bike to either not start when cold, or when hot.

my 03-08 range crf was nothing but problems all summer long... I just dont see them handling more than a winter or two but I hope im wrong.

food for thought for future readers.

obviously the 17+ EFI bikes are a different beast and a bit stronger/more capable... but we got guys here discussing the carbed CRFs which I know inside and out, as well as their problems. I buy, fix, and flip 5-15 CRFs every summer. theyre all the same.

ive considered throwing a track kit on my ol crf... its a fairly solid bike, every mod and then some, but I just dont trust it enough anymore.

I hope you crf guys have better luck than I did. feel free to PM me when your head/intakes start to tulip and you need advice. ive done it lots. the heads on those bikes are the finickiest/weakest of them all.

Yup, we will surely see with his bike.

Next time I go up and ride the dirt up there I'm going to change the oils and the filter as well as take the foam air filter out and bring it home to clean and oil for him as I'm his maintenance guy for all the machines.

He'll just ride the bike, blissfully unaware of what might happen, sometime.

 

[NEWDUCK]

I have had several riding partners with carbed Honda's. All good.

Nice power and an agile feeling bike with TS short track kits.

The hard starting is toooo lean jetting. Typical of stock bike and their Keihin carbs. Easiest solution for starting..........primer bulb, done that, proved it to some skeptics. When cold they need gas to start.
When hot they are never flooded, the hot engine has evaporated any gas in the head, the rings don't provide the seal hot and your bike won't suck gas from the carb, shot with primer bulb, starts one kick hot.

Usually honda's are easy to find and not pricey. Buy one and ride it till it blows, it will likely be awhile.

Primer bulb? Doesn't twisting the wrist do the same thing?

 

[coryf89]

I currently own a 2006 crf450r I plan to use as a snowbike, and after much reading here and googling, I'm noticing hardly anyone runs this bike in the snow. Why is that?

because we know those bikes are unreliable. the back country is a serious place, you cant be bringing junk older bikes (no offense) and expecting them to be held WFO in deep powder 40 miles from the truck all day. especially on a bike that you say is already giving you starting problems. thats a longgggggg, cold, frustrating, expensive walk/tow home. theres a reason these machines start at $15,000 and easily double from there. gotta pay to play.. cheap pays twice!

she can be a bit of a pain in the summer to get going after a spill, and on cold mornings. I'm hoping the jet kit will help there. Is it a problem getting running again after a lunch break, or will there still be some heat in the engine if I wrap it?

and thats because your intakes are already starting to close up on you. should be 1-3 kicks MAX every time, no matter the temp. have you measured valve clearances lately? been 5 years or so... but I believe intakes are supposed to be .15-.18mm and exhausts are .25- .31mm.

I believe the auto decompressor gap is your exhaust + .28mm.... or around .55mm or so.


check your intakes... super easy. if they need to be shimmed, its already on its way out. new intakes last 50-75 engine hours. once they need to be shimmed, youll get 10 engine hours outta them next, then shim again, and within 3 engine hours they will have tuliped so much, that the valve clearance will of closed and it wont start.

if you keep shimming them and stretching the valve, itll eventually snap and take out your piston and cylinder.

so then youd need a $800 head, and a $600 piston/cylinder kit. these crfs get expensive quick. may as well just buy a new, more reliable bike.

 

[coryf89]

Primer bulb? Doesn't twisting the wrist do the same thing?

yup, it should. the crfs have an accelerator pump in the carb (which can be upgraded with a thicker O ring BTW). if you spin the throttle slowly, nothing happens. but if you spin it real quick, that little pump will squirt fuel over 10' far if not attached to anything.

so yeah, basically same concept.

 

[laneends]

Wow lots of replies while I slept! Good info so far. I know the bike isn't as reliable as the new stuff, I was just thinking it would be ok to get a feel for the sport on without going into debt. I'm still paying off my SxS and don't want to buy a new bike or sled until that's behind me.

Back to the issue at hand, my CRF has about 5 hours on a rebuilt head with the stainless valves, new seats, and cam chain, so it sounds like it's good for a few hours... This did improve starting quite a bit, but I still think proper jetting could improve it more.

So, I'm hearing the bike will work, while not ideal, but not for very long. I don't get to ride nearly as much as I would like as it is. I work out at sea so the stars have to align for me to get up on the mountain. Maybe I'll see if I can trade for a cr500 or something.

If I can find an older kit for cheap this off season, I think I'll probably run it and see what happens. Breaking down in the backcountry is a valid point/concern, so maybe I'll stay near the house, plenty of riding close by my buddies place if there is snow down low.

Keep it coming, let me hear all the pros and cons, as well as what I need to get this thing off the dirt.

 

[AZ800]

I don't know about the "fatal flaws " of early Crfs but I can tell you as soon as you are a mediocre intermediate rider, you'll wring out a snowbike harder than a full AMA moto final. For example, I take a ride with my kids, mostly trail, they use a half tank in their sleds, I use 2+ tanks in my YZ450.
Last ride with a couple buddy's on 800 Pros, best powder in years, stuck day, so not many miles. They only used a few gallons. I used 2+ tanks, more gas than the sleds. That tells you how hard the bikes run. Even fuel injected and a thermo Bob, oil is trashed after an average days ride.

If you're not going deep into a dark hole by yourself, I would t have issue with an older bike, but pulling a track will find its weakness if it has one.

Kit wise, you're in a budget and Timbersled is the standard and has 10:1 the most kits out there. So that's what you'll be getting. I have an old 2013 kit, in good shape and it's great. Wide ski is a must and maintain it like a sled skid, keep chain tension, and keep an eye on the bearings if you go older than 2014, but I'm on original bearings in good shape with 25? Rides on it.

 

[AZ800]

If you're in western WA don't waste your $ on hand warmers. I'm fine with hand guards and great with gauntlets over the hand guards.

 

[chumbilly1]

Wow lots of replies while I slept! Good info so far. I know the bike isn't as reliable as the new stuff, I was just thinking it would be ok to get a feel for the sport on without going into debt. I'm still paying off my SxS and don't want to buy a new bike or sled until that's behind me.

Back to the issue at hand, my CRF has about 5 hours on a rebuilt head with the stainless valves, new seats, and cam chain, so it sounds like it's good for a few hours... This did improve starting quite a bit, but I still think proper jetting could improve it more.

So, I'm hearing the bike will work, while not ideal, but not for very long. I don't get to ride nearly as much as I would like as it is. I work out at sea so the stars have to align for me to get up on the mountain. Maybe I'll see if I can trade for a cr500 or something.

If I can find an older kit for cheap this off season, I think I'll probably run it and see what happens. Breaking down in the backcountry is a valid point/concern, so maybe I'll stay near the house, plenty of riding close by my buddies place if there is snow down low.

Keep it coming, let me hear all the pros and cons, as well as what I need to get this thing off the dirt.

Your CRF will work well. Just be aware of what others are saying is true to a point. A good friend of mine rode the living $hit out of an 03 crf with 13 LT TS kit until this year when he upgraded to a 15crf with yeti LT. His old mule never let him down, unlike some other newer efi bikes, and did suprisingly well. Get the SS valves, an adjustable fuel screw and proper intake. In WA skip the carb heat and grip heat initially. Be aware that the oil capacity is minimal in those motors as well. You will have a blast! Oh yea, red loctite on the kick start is a must!

 

[laneends]

Good to hear someone saying go for it, I was already trying to figure out what bike I should get instead, maybe there's hope!

As I said earlier, I have a fresh head with stainless valves. I've already been trying to make the bike something it's not by using it for woods riding. I added an oil cooler which helps with the oil capacity, but given snowbikes have trouble staying warm probably not good for the snow... I have the fuel screw as well.

So, maybe just a jet kit and a used timbersleds, and I'm in business? I don't have a whole lot of money into the bike so I'm not too scared if beating on it, but not a fan of long walks in the snow. Obviously (or maybe not) I would never be out alone, just not a good idea in my mind.

I just want to get into this without spending 15 grand on something I've never even tried.

 

[Misha Subo]

Take the plunge and welcome aboard. My son and I converted two '08 KTM 300s this winter and they have been reliable and a pure blast in the snow. Unfortunately, not too much snow in our neck of the woods but hopefully more next year.

I would go with the Camso...can't say enough good things about it. It's all about the leaning action IMO.

 

[coryf89]

I don't know about the "fatal flaws " of early Crfs but I can tell you as soon as you are a mediocre intermediate rider, you'll wring out a snowbike harder than a full AMA moto final. For example, I take a ride with my kids, mostly trail, they use a half tank in their sleds, I use 2+ tanks in my YZ450.
Last ride with a couple buddy's on 800 Pros, best powder in years, stuck day, so not many miles. They only used a few gallons. I used 2+ tanks, more gas than the sleds. That tells you how hard the bikes run. Even fuel injected and a thermo Bob, oil is trashed after an average days ride.

If you're not going deep into a dark hole by yourself, I would t have issue with an older bike, but pulling a track will find its weakness if it has one.

Kit wise, you're in a budget and Timbersled is the standard and has 10:1 the most kits out there. So that's what you'll be getting. I have an old 2013 kit, in good shape and it's great. Wide ski is a must and maintain it like a sled skid, keep chain tension, and keep an eye on the bearings if you go older than 2014, but I'm on original bearings in good shape with 25? Rides on it.

How are you burning so much fuel?? I’ll do 30-40km on 10 liters. Have done it a few times now

Also. How do you figure your oil is shot so soon? Me? I’ve done oil analyses of oil I’ve got two hard rides on... came back perfect.