An airbag story

[kai]

This was posted on a Mtn guide information sharing forum.
the name of the posting guide and the airbag manufacturer were omitted.

An Airbag Story

I got this story firsthand over the phone from a well known, experienced (35yrs), high performance snowmobiler. I apologize if I have made any errors, but I believe that the gist of the story is true to what I heard.


The group was riding in an alpine'ish feature last weekend. One man was near the top of a slope and blew a belt. The others assumed he had hit a rock and eventually his father rode up to help. The father had engine failure and was stuck lower on the slope. The second son rode up to help and reached his brother. A third rider went to help the father. One rider stayed behind. The slope fractured above the two brothers who were on foot at that moment and they immediately reached for their airbags.(they have worn an airbag for the past 3 winters). Both brothers (big, strong boys) pulled the airbags when the saw the crack appear and they failed to inflate. One brother also got his hand on the handle a second time during his ride and again it didn't inflate. The father was caught while on his sled and he pulled the handle on his bag and it didn't inflate.

One brother was buried with an arm out. His brother was buried to his waist, got himself out and his brother out. The father and his helper ended up on the surface lower down the slope. The rider at the bottom was not involved in the avalanche.

When they got to the parking lot they tried, again, to pull two bags. The father was unable to pull the handle with one hand. With two hands and hard yanking, he was able to get the bag to inflate. The second bag, belonging to the rider who stayed below, which had not been pulled on in the accident, inflated easily. The other two bags that failed to inflate were sent back to the manufacturer without any further fiddling.
I was told the 3 bags that didn't inflate in the accident were new this season and had been frequently and recently wet and snowy. The one that inflated easily had been dry before the day began.

What a story! I am sure glad it had a happy ending.

Anyways I posted this because I thought that it was important to remind folks and myself to test and maintain our equipment such as airbags and transceivers regularly. Perhaps check your airbag manufacturers web site to see what they recommend for maintenance as well as any updates or recalls.
I recently pulled my airbag to test it and it sure did give me peace of mind when it inflated. (I had previously gone 2 years without ever pulling it.)
Also I believe that it's important to make good sound decisions on how, when and where we ride based on avalanche conditions not on the safety equipment we use. On occasion I have found myself justifying (in my mind) riding a certain slope in uncertain conditions because I wear an airbag. Not smart.

Hope this helps.

 

[snowdog484]

I am planning on buying a BCA pack this week. Would really like the brand name of the packs. They all have their moments I know. Thanks

 

[newmy1]

ALL avy pack owners have a right to know what brand of packs these were IMO!!! I doubt they were ABS given the description......sounds like frozen cables. Very low success rate in this case which is very scary. Glad you are all OK.

The company with this issue best be proactive with an explanation is all I can say!

 

[modsledr]

First of all, very glad this incident had a happy ending...could have been tragic!!

While I agree that I would like to know the manufacturer, I also would like to give them the opportunity to evaluate the cause. Improper installation of the cable/canister can cause this to happen. I'm NOT saying this is the case, but in fairness to the manufacturer, they need to be able to evaluate the failure.

And finally, when are so called "experienced" sledders going to stop putting more than one life in danger at a time??!!

It is absolutely unacceptable to have 2, let alone 4 riders on a slope at the same time. Use your heads people!!

 

[Arcteryx]

What???

Ya, I would like more information on this as well. Maybe a link to the story you are talking about.
My first impression is not to believe it. Blown belt and a failed engine. 4 guys on the hill and 3 bags did not inflate, 1 of them being pulled twice.
Guaranteed these bags don't fail in batches like that. The liability would be overwhelming. You would see a HUGE product recall if this were true. Manufactures are legally bound to notify user at a minimum and recall ASAP when a life saving device is found to be defective.
So, can you post up that link. I would really like to get more information on this.
Thanks

 

[kai]

Hey all,
I can't name the manufacturer because I don't know, It was omitted when I saw the post. Nor do I know who was involved or how they maintain their safety equipment.
The post is meant to share what I thought was very important safety concerns
regardless of the manufacturer. Proper maintenance is essential!
Some friends who work in the Heli ski industry tell me that they fully dry out their packs daily and lube the cable monthly. Though I'm not sure what the manufacturer recommends. From the story, it sounds like the defective packs were sent to the manufacturer so hopefully a clear answer to the cause will be coming.

Hope that helps

 

[Arcteryx]

What is the name of the website or publication?? I can do some research on it tomorrow from the office and see what we can figure out.
Gonna reach out to snowbigdeal tomorrow. They sell ABS, Snow pulse, BCA and avi vest so they should have a good idea how these things typically get reported or recorded. I also have a friend that works at Klim and since they sell the bags as well he should have some info. I'll post what I find out.
It would be really helpful to know that name of the publication though so I can give them some reference.
Thanks,

 

[backcountryislife]

how bout a link? You saw it somewhere, can we get that info?

This isn't something that anyone wants to use to bash anyone, but this is something we all take pretty seriously.

Proper maintenance is important but if there is a problem, we need to know about it. I have friends with each of the major avy packs, and they deserve to know if there's something they need to be careful about!

 

[Tec]

I'd put my money on the Chines packs, can't see ABS or snowpulse failing from Ice build up, My snowpulse bag, the cable is completely sealed inside the shoulder strap! BCA is the only pack I know of where the cable is exposed to the elements.

 

[kai]

Hi arcteryx and backcountryislife

The post came forwarded to me from the "informalex", it is a place where
professional mountain guides share info with each other on climbing routes, avalanche conditions or whatever may be useful in their field of work. It is a private forum.
When I saw it, I thought it was important to post the story. Get folks thinking about their safety equipment, maintain it and test it.
I don't know if I can help you out more than that.
to get on the informalex mailing and to contribute you need to be a member of a profesional mtn guiding org such as the AMGA in the USA or the ACMG in Canada or worldwide it's the UIAGM/IFMGA

 

[Arcteryx]

Hi arcteryx and backcountryislife

The post came forwarded to me from the "informalex", it is a place where
professional mountain guides share info with each other on climbing routes, avalanche conditions or whatever may be useful in their field of work. It is a private forum.
When I saw it, I thought it was important to post the story. Get folks thinking about their safety equipment, maintain it and test it.
I don't know if I can help you out more than that.
to get on the informalex mailing and to contribute you need to be a member of a profesional mtn guiding org such as the AMGA in the USA or the ACMG in Canada or worldwide it's the UIAGM/IFMGA

If your not able to paste the link (or if it won't work if you do) can you just log on, copy the text and paste it here for us to view?? That would give me a place to start tomorrow even if I can't get onto the website.
backcountryislife put it perfectly, if there is a problem we need/deserve to know about it. I've ridden with a pack for 3 years and I talked my buddies into getting packs last year. I kinda take some responsibility for steering them the direction that I did, so for all of us (and for everyone riding with a pack), I'll put in some effort here to dig to the bottom of this and post the findings.
3 of 4 packs in a group. Making assumptions, you would assume similar brands of packs, similar purchase time frame and retailer (all assumptions) but unless these guys were the "Forest Gump's" of pack deployment there was something wrong. So, I'd like to find out exactly which group of pack owners (brand effected, model effected, serial numbers effected, production dates effected) need to be warned.
Thanks for the heads up and for helping bird dog this Kai. If you can copy and paste the text here, that will be a start. Maybe you wouldn't mind reaching out to the poster on "informalex" since your both guides and see what more he will tell you as well.
Thanks man

 

[kai]

If your not able to paste the link (or if it won't work if you do) can you just log on, copy the text and paste it here for us to view?? That would give me a place to start tomorrow even if I can't get onto the website.
backcountryislife put it perfectly, if there is a problem we need/deserve to know about it. I've ridden with a pack for 3 years and I talked my buddies into getting packs last year. I kinda take some responsibility for steering them the direction that I did, so for all of us (and for everyone riding with a pack), I'll put in some effort here to dig to the bottom of this and post the findings.
3 of 4 packs in a group. Making assumptions, you would assume similar brands of packs, similar purchase time frame and retailer (all assumptions) but unless these guys were the "Forest Gump's" of pack deployment there was something wrong. So, I'd like to find out exactly which group of pack owners (brand effected, model effected, serial numbers effected, production dates effected) need to be warned.
Thanks for the heads up and for helping bird dog this Kai. If you can copy and paste the text here, that will be a start. Maybe you wouldn't mind reaching out to the poster on "informalex" since your both guides and see what more he will tell you as well.
Thanks man

good morning arcteryx

I already cut and pasted the email I received, that is the original post.
I am not a guide or a poster on the informalex (it was forwarded to me from one. I don't know the guide who initially posted the story)
From the post it sounds like the packs went back to the manufacturer so I would assume a better answer will come out soon. At this point it is hard to say weather it is "pilot error" or a manufacturers defect. Hopefully the guys that it happened to will tell their story here or on another site.

But from what I got from the post, in my opinion the the packs were snowed up and wet which may have caused the cable to ice up or snow and or ice was impeding the valve triggering mechanism which caused the failure to deploy. (again just my guess). Seems interesting that the pack that was not wet or snowy deployed fine.

If I may add arcteryx, you should never feel responsible for talking your buddies into riding with airbags. I tell everyone who I ski and ride with that they should get one. It's just one more piece of gear that may save their life. Just look at the survival stats with them, it's outstanding. I will continue to encourage people to ride with airbags, but I personally am going to give mine
a "once over" before every ride or ski.
All I can recommend for folks looking to purchase a bag is "do your research"
find out the pros and cons of each bag and make an informed decision based on your needs.

 

[backcountryislife]

Either way, thanks for bringing it to our attention!

The problem though for us is that nobody PULLS their cord... just to see if the cord will pull you know? So if there was ice inside the cable housing, the only way you might know about this is when you try to pull it. (NOT when I want to find out I have a problem!)

Drying out the pack could allow the frozen snow/ice to just go further into the housing freezing later further down. I wonder though if this isn't something that could be prevented with some grease at the "mouth" of the cable housing, shoved into it a bit to prevent infiltration of liquid/ snow?

 

[SnowBigDeal]

Interesting, thanks for posting. While I would like to know more details about the packs and the brand of airbags they were, I would be interested to know how much time was spent by the individuals getting to know their airbags.

Airbags are not simply a tool that you can put on your back and ride. Everyone with a pack should know their airbag inside and how. What makes the pack function, how it deploys, how much force is needed, etc. With the air-filled canisters, make sure you look at your guages each ride to make sure you have air. With the ABS canisters, make sure you at least weigh your canister at the beginning of the season and preferably perform a test-fire once a year.

 

[Ox]

Very interesting..

I don't have a unit like this, and don't git to ride in those conditions all that often either, so ...

But I am wondering about the construction of the unit. Could you pull out the CO2 (?) cartridge and try the pull mechanism? Is there that much external movement? (External to the mech, I understand that the mech is inside the unit.)

Just a thought....

Looks like bringing inside to dry out overnight is needed! Maybe even flip it upsaide down so that it drains back out good?

.

 

[modsledr]

One thing I would recommend EVERYONE with an airbag do is test fire the unit as soon as you take it out of the box.

We have the BCA packs, and I have a hard time believing that it was a cable icing issue. Not saying it isn't theoretically possible, but I'm skeptical.

 

[snoboy]

I don't as of yet have an airbag. BUT I have had avalanche training and continue to practice what I've learned so... This is a text book example of what not to do. The guy with the blown belt should've been the only person on the slope (since he was first up). Once he stalled up on the hill all other climbing activity should've ceased, especially by HIS group. Group dynamics!!! Before anyone rides up to rescue blown belt they call on the talkabout and ask if he's OK he says "yea I gotta change my belt". Meanwhile every body either a) rides a different slope or b) waits patiently and eats some jerky and watches him change his belt (preferred action IMHO). If the hill cuts loose you have 4 people rescueing 1 instead of 1 searching for 4.

I realize we all make mistakes but we need to learn from these mistakes so my moral is... don't expect the airbag to take the place of educated, proper and prudent outback behavior.

Mike

 

[deepdiver]

Was it a backpack type or a vest type?

 

[modsledr]

Well Said!!!

I don't as of yet have an airbag. BUT I have had avalanche training and continue to practice what I've learned so... This is a text book example of what not to do. The guy with the blown belt should've been the only person on the slope (since he was first up). Once he stalled up on the hill all other climbing activity should've ceased, especially by HIS group. Group dynamics!!! Before anyone rides up to rescue blown belt they call on the talkabout and ask if he's OK he says "yea I gotta change my belt". Meanwhile every body either a) rides a different slope or b) waits patiently and eats some jerky and watches him change his belt (preferred action IMHO). If the hill cuts loose you have 4 people rescueing 1 instead of 1 searching for 4.

I realize we all make mistakes but we need to learn from these mistakes so my moral is... don't expect the airbag to take the place of educated, proper and prudent outback behavior.

Mike

 

[Arcteryx]

snow pulse safety bulletin

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246481

Dang Kai,
Just saw this Snow Pulse safety bulletin. Looks like the story you reported on might have come from something like this.
That is freaking scary to think about. Thanks for sharing the story and sorry if I seemed like I was skeptical. I would have expected more "press" on something like this than I heard. Maybe they notified the snow pulse users??? I ride with an ABS and if something like this happened and I wasn't contacted by them to inform me of the issues, I would be PISSED!
I hope everyone with a bag runs your checks. Gonna go weigh my ABS
Arc