where on my pipe should i put my probe for me air/gauge on 09 dragon 800 turbo
air/fuel gauge
- Thread starter josh coulombe
- Start date
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Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
don't want to be a dick but you need to install your probe 3-4 inches after y pipe (hottest spot) in your pipe(before pipe expension begin).why? o2 sensor need to be as hot as possible to read accurate and steady. in a 2 stroke environement, oil will decrease a bit longivity but still be pretty good if installed in the right place. i would suggest to install a NGK AFX(expensive!) but realy accurate(0.1-0.2 with our laboratory o2 sensor when innovate and aem could be off by 1.0-1.2..!!)
hope this help a bit
thanks for the advice guys
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miller tools
Well-known member
Mine is right after the turbo 09 800 BD
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Spaarky
Well-known member
your not being a dick... I just have never seen one mounted like that. Maybe I dont get out enough. All the turbo guys I have chatted with like it on exhaust side of the turbo
I have heard that egt's need to be mounted close.. but never AFR. this is totally new to me as all kits i have seen come with it post turbo
YOU HAVE TO INSTALL THE WIDEBAND AFTER THE TURBO......if you put it in the pipe you will have an inaccurate reading. The pressure that is in the pipe will cause the pump that is built into the wideband to draw more current. The higher current draw will cause your reading to be off.
If you don't believe me...I can post the datasheet.
If you don't believe me...I can post the datasheet.
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Boyko
Well-known member
Why would you mount the o2 sensor there at the hottest spot? All the o2 sensors I have install the instructions recommend mounting the 02 bung downstream of the turbo, even the ngk instructions point that out. I read a test awhile ago that rated the ngt system as the most inaccurate and the innovate was the rated # 1. There is no way the innovate or AEM gauges have been running over the years are a point out.
In your testing did you have the sensors monted in the hot spot before the turbo?
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Boyko
Well-known member
oh thank god, I shouldnt have been riding the short bus for the past 10 years....
thats ok.......
the short bus is lite
and has a turbo
with carbs
and a egt
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Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
the o2 sensor need to be installed in the hottest possible spot before expension start on your pipe, 3-4 inche after y pipe. spent countless hours searching for the best steady reading location and believe me this is the spot. after turbo will give you an unstable,fluctuating reading realy tough to monitor for a computer( standalone). in a 2 stroke environement, the residues of oil in the combustion process(in the exhaust) will "stick" to the sensor while cooling down if placed too far on the exhaust causing bad/unstable reading and eventualy failure.
this can be argued for a while but this is where ski-doo, arctic cat, polaris engineers are installing their sensors for tuning....and us too! like i said earlier not trying to be a dick just releasing impartial infos.
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Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
instructions are also telling you not too install in a 2 stroke (oil injected combustion process)....
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jeepin270
Well-known member
This is true. Proved it at dynotech last year. U get false reading after the turbo. My friend has a 2010 boondocker rtr assault, sensor is mounted excactly where Gino said to mount it. Mine is mounted after turbo and the readings are usually 1. to 2. Off
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Spaarky
Well-known member
Boyko... hopefully that wasnt a knock on carbs or this thread might take a turn in a different direction...
The bottom line in my mind is this... the afr is a tuning guide, not the end all of tuning. You have to know what the motor is doing in refernce to the afr. Lets take for instance when I had egts on my sled. It was happiest at 1450, now most people would say, it should have melted down long ago. It wasnt buring excess fuel in the pipe, I knew exactly what the piston wash was at that point...
So I guess my point is... whether you put the probe after the turbo, in the exhaust, or where the sun dont shine, you better know what you motor is actually doing.
The bottom line in my mind is this... the afr is a tuning guide, not the end all of tuning. You have to know what the motor is doing in refernce to the afr. Lets take for instance when I had egts on my sled. It was happiest at 1450, now most people would say, it should have melted down long ago. It wasnt buring excess fuel in the pipe, I knew exactly what the piston wash was at that point...
So I guess my point is... whether you put the probe after the turbo, in the exhaust, or where the sun dont shine, you better know what you motor is actually doing.
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Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
Boyko... hopefully that wasnt a knock on carbs or this thread might take a turn in a different direction...
The bottom line in my mind is this... the afr is a tuning guide, not the end all of tuning. You have to know what the motor is doing in refernce to the afr. Lets take for instance when I had egts on my sled. It was happiest at 1450, now most people would say, it should have melted down long ago. It wasnt buring excess fuel in the pipe, I knew exactly what the piston wash was at that point...
So I guess my point is... whether you put the probe after the turbo, in the exhaust, or where the sun dont shine, you better know what you motor is actually doing.
i have to say, i 100% disagee with you but it is a free country and you can endorse what ever believes you have.....the fact is all serious shop/manufacturer tune engine based on afr (much quicker), and egt is too slow for tuning purposes but can be taken in account on a closed loop safety or 5d ignition or 5d fuel table.....i have to tell you nothing works better then afr and a good look at your spark plugs on every major change in fueling and ignition!!
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Spaarky
Well-known member
reread my post...
I knew exactly what the piston wash was at that point...
So I guess my point is... whether you put the probe after the turbo, in the exhaust, or where the sun dont shine, you better know what you motor is actually doing.
sure seems to me, we seemed to be saying about the same thing...
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Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
i did read again.....we are not saying the same thing at all! you cannot alter fuel or ignition by looking at pistons wash and color of your plugs, nor can you adjust fueling or ignition or boost all across the rpm range with a fuel controller. you can, tuning with egts, get away not melting down your pistons but it is far away from running maximum power and safety....
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Spaarky
Well-known member
this seems to be going in the direction of some plug for your ecu... which this thread has nothing to do with
BTW.. I dont use egts.. havent for about 10 years.. if you read closely...
When it comes to tuning, I will trust what I see inside the motor everyday, before a gauge. No matter if its a afr or egt.
BTW.. I dont use egts.. havent for about 10 years.. if you read closely...
When it comes to tuning, I will trust what I see inside the motor everyday, before a gauge. No matter if its a afr or egt.
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Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
nothing about our ECU, the o2 sensor need to be fitted where we stated that's all......it has been proven so no need to argue on that.
cheers