abs pack or beacon and probe

[jasonsamko]

we are from michigan and going to the snowies in march. everyone says we need beacons and probes but nobody rents them around there.
if we have to buy them is it better to buy a beacon and probe or to skip them and buy JUST a abs pack with out a beacon/probe.

been doing research on both and need opinions and advise.

 

[whitefish]

Beacon, probe shovels are a must in addition to knowledge on how to use them. An ABS is nice to have but won't save your buddy if you're wearing one and he is not.

 

[ruffryder]

Beacon, probe shovels are a must in addition to knowledge on how to use them. An ABS is nice to have but won't save your buddy if you're wearing one and he is not.

Correct, beacon, probe, and shovel is for you to find your friends, not for you. The abs pack is for you.

 

[POWDR]

I originally wrote this for a guy seeking advice about which beacon to choose. I edited it to work for your question. I hope it makes sense and more importantly helps you. Remember it is not just having the gear, you need to actually know how to use it efficiently.

Shovel, probe,beacon, and knowledge are all part of avy safety.. Get a solid shovel. Ever shovel avy debris? I have..... Go out to the end of your drive where there is some good frozen over piles from the snow plow and shovel, quickly and deep like your best friends life depends on it. This will give you an idea of what it will be like. Be sure that shovel is in your pack, not the handy shovel pouch on your lightweight seat. Your machine could get buried along with a friend and you get free. Without that shovel you are useless to your friend. Seems unlikely, but the unlikely happens in the backcountry, be prepared for anything. Beacon on your body, not in your pocket or pack-avy's can are violent and can rip items from your body. Again, be prepared for anything.

Regardless of choice of beacon, know your beacon and how it works. Also, know what will go down in an emergency. Confusion ensues. Who will take the lead. Everyone will likely want to. Sometimes it is just as helpful taking a secondary role as the lead. What do you do when you first pick up the signal? Is someone not searching and just watching for secondary slides that could nail the search party? These and many more questions come up- know the answers before you leave the lot.

Before these questions even arise- is it safe to travel in this terrain. Who has dug a pit or even a simple test of stability by sticking your fist through the layers. Be sure to be safe and that everyone in the party is educated and on the same wavelength. If someone speaks up about being sketched about the stability-listen to what they have to say. Even if you know the terrain and weather conditions, maybe they have seen something they didn't like. I know of too many people that felt something, didn't speak up and something happened-maybe just a close call, maybe a burial. Know the snowpack and act as a group and be prepared to respond to emergency as a group.

The beacon you chose doesn't matter as much as you and your group's knowledge of avy conditions (go no-go), what to do in an emergency, how to use that new beacon, CPR, neck and back evac, and so on.

I have a lot to say about avy info and I have some decent experience. The more I learn the more humble I become. If you have any questions seek out classes, books, info on the web, fellow Snowesters, or PM me questions if you would like.

Any beacon you chose will be a good choice as long as you practice, practice, practice, practice....... and make good safe choices.

Be safe and have fun

 

[jasonsamko]

sorry i should of mentioned that the decision would be across the borad with all 3 of us. meaning all 3 with beacons and probes or all 3 with abs packs.

my main concern is the practice part honestly...
we are in michigan and we also live 3 hours away from each other in all different directions. so getting to gether to practice is not sometihng we can do often. also we dont have the snow here to make it realistic. we also will only be riding in the mountains a few times a year.
these were the reasons that made me wonder if it would be better (ie:safer) for us to just invest in abs packs as the survial rate seems much higher than even skilled use of beacons and probes.

borgmanr: thanks for the info. i will be doing every bit of reasearch i can from now until we leave to become as well informed as i can. it is difficult having never spent anytime in the mountains yet. but i will abosorb everything i can find about av safety.

 

[powderhoundbrr]

Sounds to me like you guys are an accident waiting to happen. I am thinking avalanche courses would be wise for everyone and riding with some experienced mountain guys. YOU NEED TO HAVE A SHOVEL BEACON AND A PROBE. THIS IS A NON-NEGOTIABLE NECESSITY IN THE MOUNTAINS.

And you need to practice (imagine you buddy is buried and you are running around trying to save him and figure out how to switch your transceiver to receive) TICK TOCK TICK TOCK..........As for the airbags they are nice to have but optional.

Good on you for asking though, a willingness to learn is important.

 

[jasonsamko]

Sounds to me like you guys are an accident waiting to happen. I am thinking avalanche courses would be wise for everyone and riding with some experienced mountain guys. YOU NEED TO HAVE A SHOVEL BEACON AND A PROBE. THIS IS A NON-NEGOTIABLE NECESSITY IN THE MOUNTAINS.

And you need to practice (imagine you buddy is buried and you are running around trying to save him and figure out how to switch your transceiver to receive) TICK TOCK TICK TOCK..........As for the airbags they are nice to have but optional.

Good on you for asking though, a willingness to learn is important.

i am trying everything i can to make sure we are not "an accident waiting to happen". we will also use a guide outhere, but even with the guide we want to be as prepared as we can be and as informed as we can be.
we all have good high quality aluminum shovels already. we are all researching as much as possible on everything we can find about avy safety. the responses i am getting are exactly as we were looking for and really help clear up what we expected. the abs bags are a "bonus" part of the equation and the Beacon/probe/shovel/practice part is the required foundation.
agian i appreciate all the info and advise...keep it coming. thanks.

 

[POWDR]

Powderhound has it right, they are optional. What if it does not deploy and you get buried and all your buddies have are their ABS packs?

Gain as much knowledge as you can, take a class if you can, read avy books.

Stay safe out there and have fun.

Just throw down for the beacon, probe, and shovel- please.

 

[POWDR]

If you are going guided, they will likely have beacon, shovel, probe to rent. If they are a guide service they should offer these safety items if they are taking you into avy terrain. Otherwise, I may consider another guiding company. Give em a call and see what they offer.

 

[jasonsamko]

If you are going guided, they will likely have beacon, shovel, probe to rent. If they are a guide service they should offer these safety items if they are taking you into avy terrain. Otherwise, I may consider another guiding company. Give em a call and see what they offer.

i called the only guide i found out there and they dont rent beacons....actually i called every place that i could find including all deaperships and no one in the snowies rents any avy gear due to liabilites.

 

[POWDR]

Wow. I wonder what their liability is for taking people into avy terrain without proper equiment

Good luck. I hope you get what you need and have fun and tons of fresh pow

 

[ccpowder]

Wow. I wonder what their liability is for taking people into avy terrain without proper equiment

Its called signing a waiver.

As for Gear, I bet if you was to post something on here, you would find someone with extra gear willing to rent it out. Also, there are lots of people who travel to the West who I bet have the gear that would be willing to rent.

 

[POWDR]

Its called signing a waiver.


Good point, I did hear that waivers prevent avalanches

 

[Mtn-Track]

You can ALWAYS use a shovel, especially when riding a sled in the mountains. So no need to question that one.

Probe poles are cheap. Nuff said.

Beacons? I have one on all the time, even if I'm just on a trail ride. Just because I may not be hitting all the big hills, SOMEONE else always is. Think of if as more than for you and your buddies. There are lots of others out there (some smart, some not) that may be in an avy or set one off on YOU and your buddies. Even cheap ones will work, as not having one at all will just make you a victim or spectator if a hill does cut loose.

It goes without saying that if you own one, you should be able to use it....

Just my 2cents worth...

 

[RaggedEdgePerformance]

If you're coming to the mountains from the flatland you absolutely need a shovel, you'll use it, that's a guarantee. As for a beacon in my mind it is a must for mountain riders. The probe will help find the down person if that situation occurs. As for the ABS pack, it is not a pair of angel wings that is going to magically save you in a slide, you still need a beacon on your body, and better hope your buddies have a shovel! There's no guarantee the ABS pack will save you. The other thing is that I would strongly recommend a training course to learn how to use the beacons, if you don't know how to use them, they're absolutely useless!

 

[ccoleman77]

These three things are essential. You're driving out here take a couple hours out of the bar time when you get here the first night and practice burying them in the snow around your hotel lodge whatever and finding them. they are not complicated to use after you figure it out. The thing is knowing them well enough that when something happens its instinct. Like hitting the brekes on your car when a kid runs in front of you. I have seen people buried sitting on the trail below a play area. Your guide should be very knowledgable about beacons and should be able to answer questions you have on their use. As stated above shovels and probes are cheap. Just buy them you'll use them again guaranteed. I know there are a few sites with beacons for decent prices right now. $300.00 is cheaper than a funeral guaranteed. And if you have kids wife parents whatever back home they want you coming back alive not in a box. A phone call from the carbon county search and resue saying you perished in an avalanche is not something any family member ever wants to recieve. I know a guy got buried here a few weeks ago on a small hill. He wasn't injured but they were prepared. An avy course is a great thing to experience. the dates sometimes don't accomodate I know that. The guys that have 10 high out of here in Laramie might be a lot more helpful as far as where you can get the equipment and possible rentals. I will find one of their names. They run a guide service so should have a better idea than I do on that stuff.But please get the gear before you come and come out be safe and go back home to your families safe. And then next year come out again.

 

[ccoleman77]

snowcross338 on here has a guide service..... Here is a link to his thread with contact info and all that jazz....http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172321

 

[EagleRiverDee]

Alaska Riders, FYI- the Alaska Avalanche School is doing a course at the end of the month on the 30th and 31st FREE. They got a grant that allowed them to do these at no charge. I was fortunate to get myself, my fiance and a friend into the course. I think they may still have spots open. I just got my beacon and probe and am looking forward to receiving some good training.

http://www.alaskaavalanche.com/Site/RFP_Grants.html

 

[IRONMAN]

Becon, shovel, and probe, then avy school, then avy pak. My $.02

 

[jasonsamko]

snowcross338 on here has a guide service..... Here is a link to his thread with contact info and all that jazz....http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172321

thanks everyone for all the insite and help.
now that we know what is important and what we need to do and learn, we can get moving in the right direction.
tomorrow will order BCA DTS beacons, Good quality 260cm probes, and top notch alum. shovels. then its off to practice and learn how to use them and gather as much info as i can on avy safety. again, thanks guys!